The cost of fuel

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

I never said that ethanol production is the sole or primary factor in food costs NOW, not by a long shot, but the more you rely on power the more it is. If we replaced gasoline with ethanol, food prices would be unlivable for all but a lucky few.

Even if the land it's on isn't currently being used for food production, as more and more food is needed that land is going to either have to be converted to food crops (which could cause another energy crisis), or people are going to have to starve for the sake of fuel. Not so when you're building on land that couldn't be farmed anyway-- or on private property (putting solar panels on your own roof, for instance)

There's also the fact that fuel crops would require much more effort and energy to utilize than other sources. They have to be planted, tended, watered, harvested, and processed. Solar or wind, on the other hand, would primarily cost you in their construction, and some maintenance costs.

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

It really depends on the aplication, you can play with different energy sources depending on the use you are going to give to the energy.

For instance ethanol for automoviles, solar/wind energy for domestic use, scum biodiesel for industry purposes and stuff like that. For instance scum biodiesel would be really easy to produce in desert areas (scum farms are already being researched for this) which the US has a lot of.

There are plenty of alternatives depending on the energy needs you have, the problem is people wants to have an universal energy source because they are lazy.

Edit > Another thing, as always, diversifying energy sources would prevent an episode like the one we are having right now with oil. All the US' problems (and pretty much most countries') come from their huge dependance of oil and their lack of real alternatives to it. So the US will dance at the pace the foreign oil producers set, and that's about it. A very third-world position to be in if you ask me.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The cost of fuel

YouTube - The Beatles - Revolution

/em gives Feba extra points

[Satimasu]

Re: The cost of fuel

When I was getting fuel and saw the price of diesel was at 4.67 (that's with a 6 cent discount the company gets), my jaw dropped. I am so glad I don't own my own truck. I'd be so screwed right now.

Now my company is getting on our case for our idling time on the truck. I have to sit with my truck off while I'm just dying from the heat and lack of a breeze with the windows down.

How would trucks be able to deal with the "alternative" fuels and still have at least a decent MPG? ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel) is already bad enough as it is. They give less MPG than LSD and '07 trucks and later have to use it.

We could probably relieve some of this by drilling for our own oil. Oh well...

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

As long as they are aware that drilling more is only a temporary measure and not a solution (wait, didn't Obama say the same thing? ). And don't just toss the issue under the rug and hope oil prices will magically fall while oil is depleting more and more every passing day.

[Satimasu]

Re: The cost of fuel

Drilling more? They haven't been able to drill any since this has been going on. They keep voting down anything to do with drilling. A good immediate temporary solution would be to drop the taxes on fuel for a bit. The government is making too much off of this to do that though.

[Malevolent]

Re: The cost of fuel

Speaking of drilling...say goodbye to that in alaska. Since the polar bear has been deemed endangered its illegal to disturb their habitat. but the thing is canada can still drill in alaska.

Also back to gas prices. Me and my family are still paying $1.90 US for a gallon of gas. I'm glad we invested money in fuel banks.

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

That wouldn't help at all. Cutting gas taxes would just server to get people to buy more gas, and drive it right back up where it is right now.

Start gas tax holiday - Google News and keep reading to see why it's a bad idea (not to mention pretty blatant voter pandering)

[DakAttack]

Re: The cost of fuel

In some ways. They're hurting a lot of stupid people, and annoying everyone. The people it is really hurting are people who need to drive large vehicles, but don't get paid for their fuel use. Drummers (especially when they have to go to a far away gig), small business owners (if they have to transport goods, I have some friends in this situation), and the like.

On the other hand, I do think it will be a good thing in the long run, especially as it drives people to more reasonable living arrangements, choices, and energy sources.

You're worried about drummers? You don't own a car, do you?

What energy sources are more reasonable? They're producing cars that run on gas, not solar power or rainbows. Even if somebody did pull an awesome source of energy straight out of their ass right now we wouldn't see it in cars for years.

[Satimasu]

Re: The cost of fuel

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that gas tax holiday thing. Good idea making the oil companies pay for it while they would just pass on the tax to us... What would be a good temporary solution then?

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

You're worried about drummers?

Not specifically, no.

You don't own a car, do you?

No, and by choice. They're not really a good idea nowadays unless you absolutely have to have one. Like I've been saying, there are plenty of ways to live without a car that people who are confined to them their entire lives tend to not think of.

What energy sources are more reasonable?

For cars? Electric. No matter what energy source winds up becoming popular, you win, since it can be converted (through a generator) and hooked up to your vehicle. Modern electric cars have quite a bit of punch, and very decent range. The only problem is charging it, but 90-95% of people will be served just fine by charging it in their garage. Battery technology has improved hugely, and it continues to do the same (largely probably because of the laptop and portable gadget industry, which demands more and more power, and thus more capable batteries)

Even if somebody did pull an awesome source of energy straight out of their ass right now we wouldn't see it in cars for years.

Fun fact: Some of the very first automobiles were electric, right after steam engines, and well before gas and diesel.

[DakAttack]

Re: The cost of fuel

No, and by choice. They're not really a good idea nowadays unless you absolutely have to have one. Like I've been saying, there are plenty of ways to live without a car that people who are confined to them their entire lives tend to not think of.

I hope you're having fun up there on your high horse. People in my area commute for miles into DC every morning, and back out in the evening, simply because housing is too expensive anywhere near DC. People around here are spending more and more money everyday just to sit in traffic every morning and evening.

Fun fact: Some of the very first automobiles were electric, right after steam engines, and well before gas and diesel.

Which is why we're still driving them today! Oh wait.

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

Except for truck companies the tax holyday will do nothing for most people. It is indeed a political gimmick.

Also drilling isn't a solution, it would just make people grow complatient again and say "meh my grandchildren will be able to fix it eventually... maybe... who cares I'm gonna be dead by then anyway"

This is a good chance to reshape the future, but it seems people is too worried about going back to their lifestyle from 5 years ago to realize it.

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

Like I said, there are some people who have a legitimate need for cars. The majority of people do not, though. If you live in an area where your job doesn't pay well enough for you to live near to it, there's no or substandard public transportation, and any other form of transport would be unusable, yes, that would fall under absolutely having to have one; unless of course you can move or work elsewhere without an adverse affect on your life.

Which is why we're still driving them today!

Or it could be that gas used to be cheaper than piss, and electrics didn't have the power, range, or ability to have fuel distributors like gas did! Electrics have really gone from being a novelty to being a great option for a replacement in about the last decade or so.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Re: The cost of fuel

This is a good chance to reshape the future, but it seems people is too worried about going back to their lifestyle from 5 years ago to realize it.

People have been saying that since year 5

Of course they want it to go back to being the way it was, because EVERYONE has a pipe dream in their head that things were better in the past.

Children listened to their parents, didn't listen to godawful music, gas was cheap and housing was affordable. Everything was ALWAYS better "In the Past"

This is of course a fallacy. Things were, overall, the exact same. Circumstances may have changed, but in the final analysis, nothing changes meaningfully without great upheavals to society.

We are NEVER going to get weaned off of oil as long as their is oil - it's like species level heroin. We are addicted and that is not going to change, Most people do not understand in the least how pervasive oil is into our lives. Plastics, Clothing, Electronics, medicines - Oil and it's by-products are the foundations of modern chemistry - which is in itself the foundation of modern life.

But it's human nature to run from the truth. Because, day-to-day, it's effects are relatively minor (Al Gores' slowly boiling frog is a perfect example of this). Maybe those fat-cats from Shell and BP and Exxon-Mobile will start to think alternative energy sources in more than just a lip-servicey-"see-we-care-about-the-environment" way when the riots and firestorms of death and destruction destroy civilization. Because it doesn't matter how rich you are if there NOWHERE to spend it. These are not ignorant men. STUPID, yes, but not ignorant. They will eventually realize the folly of oil.

When the very last drop is squeezed out of the spent dried hulk of the earth.

Then, strangely, the oil companies will pull out all of the alternative energy projects they have destroyed, hidden, confiscated and bought for the last hundred years - as if they are the saviors of the planet. And the people will rejoice, there will be dancing in the streets. The sad part being we don't need to let things get that bad first. We don't need to suck down oil the way we do, but we do because that's the system they've created. There are many many many more efficient ways of doing things, but we use internal combustion engines everywhere, because they've been subsidised for generations by the same industires that are now laughing behind their hands while their hand picked stooge uh puppet erm meat popsicle, no, President, tells us "they hate us for our freedom, ha".

Meh...