The cost of fuel

[Jarre]

It was sickening today filling my small engined 1.25l fiesta with the 35 litres to fill the tank from empty. (9.246 US gallons) it cost me £39.17 ($77.64). I have to now pay £1.119 per litre or £4.23 per US gallon ($8.38) Its sickening I've watched the cost increase by 12% over the last 4 months here in the UK and its still rising, especially now oil has hit record prices. I don;t earn a great salary and I am really starting to feel the extra cost taking a chunk out of my pay apcket each month. So whats it like in your area / country?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The cost of fuel

Its nearing $4 a gallon out here, which is positively ridiculous, gas has become a major factor in anyone's cost of living now. If you have a job, it takes a huge chunk out of your pay; if you're looking for a job, distance to a potential employer is now a factor; and, hell, if you're a kid looking for stuff to do after school, better off just staying at home or do something extra-curricular for the sake of your parent's wallet.

It just gets worse and worse and its seems like nobody is doing anything about it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The cost of fuel

While it is no where near as high here Jarre, in my area, its up to $4+ a gallon. Sad to say that I get excited when I see a station with $3.90. The rising costs for my car don't bother me much but the prices to heat my home and the rise in cost for my electricity because of the gas prices are whats hitting me hard.

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

Well, what are they supposed to do? You can't exactly just make more oil. And as long as people are willing to buy from oil companies, they're going to be willing to raise prices to silly amounts.

Most of the effects of this are good, in the long run. It's just going to be a very tough transitional period. Between the internet, delivery services, and a little bit of planning ahead, it's more than possible to not have to worry about gas. Pretty much anything you need can be ordered online and delivered to your front step (even grocery stores tend to deliver nowadays. One near my place will take your entire order, and only charge you $5-10 extra. Honestly, considering the time you save shopping online, and going through a store to collect items, that alone is a deal; let alone not having to worry about driving). Getting to work is the big deal for most people, and that's again going to be a tough transition. We're going to have to go back to living near where you work, or using bicycles/public transport to get around.

On the bright side, more people using human powered and public transportation means less pollution-- this isn't just good for the planet, it's good for you. Walking and bicycling is also going to improve health. Considering where you live being relevant to where you work is going to reduce the amount of time you spend commuting; and gas prices going up in general is going to make telecommuting more common (although the internet probably does more to help there). Rising food prices will also motivate people to buy local and grow their own food.

The biggest problem seems to be that people see gas costs as some temporary problem, one that they just have to weather and eventually it will go away; instead of something to consider in their long term plans.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Re: The cost of fuel

The biggest problem seems to be that people see gas costs as some temporary problem, one that they just have to weather and eventually it will go away; instead of something to consider in their long term plans.

Amen to that! And Jarre may pay nearly twice (more than in some cases) what we pay but the fact of the matter is at least he gets something for it. Americans are so used to consuming like a rabid melanoma, getting nothing and paying almost nothing for it, that we are righteously indignant when anyone highlights the fact that we pay far far less for things - and get far far less from the government than we should.

No Healthcare, No Education unless you are wealthy, disintegrating infrastructure, Income inequalities not seen since JUST BEFORE the great depression. I don't know about you all but we have six months of Winter here and the roads, freeways, sidestreets get torn up regularly by the snowplows and the salt, I would gladly pay a bit more for fuel if it meant ROADS THAT AREN'T CRAP, working lights, etc. We could have all of that, but we don't want to pay anymore in "Taxes", 'cuz they are somehow "bad" (as opposed to selling our childrens future to pay for things WE want today - Bushenomics - 'Sorry about you dream of home ownership son, but now that you are supporting 2 retirees on Social Security, we need all your money, Luv GWBush' - This is the first war in American History that has not been at least partially paid for with Taxes.

Americans don't pay taxes for things, so we get what we pay for - nothing. The TINY LITTLE taxes we DO pay, we cry, carp, whine, (whinge for my brit friends)and bitch about. You think you pay "a lot" in sales tax? talk to someone in a VAT country!

It's time for a CHANGE.

Oh, and on 1/29/09 when the new POTUS takes over, the old one should get the exact same thing he's been giving to soldiers "retired" out of the military: a bus ticket and $50.00. Ya know what, Scratch the fifty bucks.

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

Well, what are they supposed to do? You can't exactly just make more oil. And as long as people are willing to buy from oil companies, they're going to be willing to raise prices to silly amounts.

Actually it seems you can, but at the time (1980-something, look for the SFC -Synthetic Fuels Corporation under the Energy Security Act) the project was scrapped because the cost of producing a barrel of synthetic oil was more expensive than natural oil (natural oil was $8-ish USD per barrel at the time).

The cost of producing synthetic oil nowadays is around 50-60 bucks per barrel, which is waaay better than current prices in the US. Why aren't they doing it already? That's a good question, specially with how developed technology is nowadays (probably something to do with oil interests not allowing it to happen and stuff <_<; ).

[Nazo]

Re: The cost of fuel

This has been coming for a while now, but our 'leaders' (particularly those who were oil men in previous lives) have chosen to sell us out by sticking their heads in the sand rather than take the action necessary to reduce our crippling dependence on oil.
Oil is a finite resource and demand is increasing as fast as supply is running out. We can accept that fact and make changes to our lives or we can do nothing and bitch and whine as our standard of living disappears down the tubes. I'm changing jobs next week to somewhere closer to home in an effort to cut my costs, I'm going to push hard to be allowed to work from home a few days a week as well to cut them even further. It sucks but it ain't going to get any better.

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

A country like Brazil is already near oil independance using sugar cane ethanol.

In the mean time the US is still wasting time with low octane corn ethanol and passing on opportunities to get energy independance. For instance, the US is pushing their puppet goverment in Mexico to pass a reform so foreign oil companies can exploit Mexico's oil wells, when they could be investing in creating massive sugar cane ethanol plants here in mexico instead, since the weather conditions and amounts of land available in states like Veracruz would be perfect for the task.

It's hard to believe a country like the US can't keep up with a 3rd world country in technology, but then again the US also refuses to use the metric system and other things like that out of pure oold fashined stubborness.

[DakAttack]

Re: The cost of fuel

Feba likes rising gas prices.

Feba is a commy terrorist.

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

Raydeus, I obviously meant natural oil. Switching to synthetic, we'd probably be just as well off shifting to solar or something else (I had read recently about someone managing to manufacture solar panels cheaper than coal)

Ethanol is a bad idea; it takes up land and resources which were originally (and better) used for food. Combined with the US government, it's even worse, but even by itself it causes food shortages and drives up prices; compared to other alternatives which could use less space, fewer resources, and land that would pretty much never be used for food crops (think deserts; there have been plans for some extremely large solar collectors in the American southwest, for instance)
______________________________

Feba likes rising gas prices.

In some ways. They're hurting a lot of stupid people, and annoying everyone. The people it is really hurting are people who need to drive large vehicles, but don't get paid for their fuel use. Drummers (especially when they have to go to a far away gig), small business owners (if they have to transport goods, I have some friends in this situation), and the like.

On the other hand, I do think it will be a good thing in the long run, especially as it drives people to more reasonable living arrangements, choices, and energy sources.

[Jarre]

Re: The cost of fuel

No Healthcare, No Education unless you are wealthy, disintegrating infrastructure, Income inequalities not seen since JUST BEFORE the great depression. I don't know about you all but we have six months of Winter here and the roads, freeways, sidestreets get torn up regularly by the snowplows and the salt, I would gladly pay a bit more for fuel if it meant ROADS THAT AREN'T CRAP, working lights, etc. We could have all of that, but we don't want to pay anymore in "Taxes", 'cuz they are somehow "bad" (as opposed to selling our children’s future to pay for things WE want today - Bushenomics - 'Sorry about you dream of home ownership son, but now that you are supporting 2 retirees on Social Security, we need all your money, Luv GWBush' - This is the first war in American History that has not been at least partially paid for with Taxes.

That’s the problem, we pay 45% of the fuel cost is tax or duty as its called, its supposed to go towards things like better roads, public transport etc. IT ISN'T!!

All the roads are under funded, public transport unless you live in a very large city i.e. Nottingham, Leicester, Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds &Manchester and London is very poor i.e. any city with less than 1m population.

I live in one of the most rural counties in the whole of England. I live in a small village 6 miles from the town I work in. My job as an Architect means I have to be able to get anywhere in the county at the drop of a hat to do my job properly. There is also only 1 road to get to the town from my house and that is potholed and hasn't been repaired for nearly 15 years. I can’t cycle to work because of this and also due to my physical health. Being in the poorest region the wages reflect that, yet house prices are high as the wealthy from London buy big houses and flats for the weekend get out of the city home causing a shortage of housing, thus driving prices up to nearly 3 times what people can afford.

Public transport is diabolical due to the population being spread out making a regular service unprofitable. We have a bus 6 times a day to the village, that’s once every 2 hours, the first at 8am the last at 6pm. We have one pub in the village, I small shop and a pharmacy and that’s it. To get any form of shopping you need to drive to the supermarket 8 miles away and its a 20 minute walk from that to the nearest bus stop.

Heating has gone through the roof, gas and electricity prices rose again by 20% in January. My gas and electricity bill is costing me double what it did 4 years ago even with all the savings I advised a few weeks back.

And why is the prices so high? Ask the oil companies, Shell made profits of £4.3bn during the first quarter of this year, that is £0.7bn more than last year. BP were another high flyer making record profits. Does this money get fed back into the country? No. Their accounts are in other countries, they pay less tax and the money that does get into the coffers of the government, is hardly a dent on the companies. 8 years ago the government increased the taxes to the oil companies and they put petrol prices up by 6pence a litre immediately to cover that cost so it didn’t dent their profits, their was outrage and people blockaded the fuel depots in protest. what did that achieve? nothing. the government pissed on all of us and has made it illegal for anyone to block the supply of petrol. Like the fire-fighters strike, they just shrug it arrest some key members and make a mockery out of them, then force their hand against others who would dare to try. what is supposed to be a free society has some sinister mist hanging over it.

The predictions here in the UK are really grim, with the poverty line getting increasingly larger with more people falling into serious debt. we are a supposed to be a great first world country, but we becoming more and more poverish with the rich / poor divide increasing daily. The Uk is heading towards a depression (although the government refuses to admit it) even in my industry of construction we are seeing the signs, the housing market has peaked and is showing a slow down, new housing estates are stopping at the current phase and further phases are being put on the back burner, large companies are looking abroad for cheap labour in a bid to cost cut. The government are slashing budgets all over the place including serious ones like the police, fire service and the NHS our supposed free health service, which wont treat you if you are overweight, smoke or happen to enjoy a drink. I am 2 stone overweight (according to their tables) and they refused to give me a back operation that will make my life more comfortable, it is very difficult for me to shed that weight even though I pay £120 a month ($238) on national insurance (the contribution straight from your wages that pays for the NHS) I get no treatment.

Yet the government paid out £15bn on the Iraq war and is still paying for it, a war of which the population didn't want the country to be in. My local hospital is the only ER to cover the regions population of 1m and waiting times into eh ER can be as much as 11 hours to be seen on a Friday night.

The only way to get over the fuel problems is to sue new fuels, yet with cars the electric costs more to both buy and to charge the vehicle. There are many alternative renewable sources for electricity like photovoltaic and wind power, yet these are extremely expensive, in fact we pay 6 times more for a photovoltaic panel than you do in the US and 8 times more than Germany. Their are no real incentives to buy them from the government and the red tape to use these on buildings is a nightmare to get planning permission for due to the old fashioned fuckwits that run our councils and planning departments.

In my country and yours the good old days are over, we face an uncertain future and it is up to us to shape it for the better. How we are going to do that is a difficult motion..........

[Sabaron]

Re: The cost of fuel

This has been coming for a while now, but our 'leaders' (particularly those who were oil men in previous lives) have chosen to sell us out by sticking their heads in the sand rather than take the action necessary to reduce our crippling dependence on oil...

Raising gas prices does accomplish this. The economy itself has a built-in mechanism for fixing our oil dependence. As the price of gas rises, people will become more and more inclined to purchase alternative fuels and cars that use less gas. Case in point, here in Illinois, Ethanol (up until the last 4 years or so) was actually more expensive than regular gas. You would see the 10% ethanol blend with 89 octane listed at say 2.899 and the 87 octane 0% ethanol blend at $2.699. Now, it's flipped, $4.099 for E0 and $3.899 for E10. Therefore, people can now save money by not buying gasoline. That's the perfect set up for moving people onto different fuels.

I don't think there's anything the government could do that would work better than simple economics, and besides, everything the government does costs money anyway, so you would just end up paying for it through taxes instead of at the pump. People will now fund commercial fuel research by investing their money in the purchase of alternative fuels and save money by doing so! This is the essence of capitalism.

Socialized Fuel Programs {No Thanks}

[Feba]

Re: The cost of fuel

tax or duty as its called, its supposed to go towards things. IT ISN'T!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87yq372R4Ts]YouTube - The Beatles - Revolution[/ame]

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The cost of fuel

It's hard to believe a country like the US can't keep up with a 3rd world country in technology

Gotta love those oil tycoons!

[Raydeus]

Re: The cost of fuel

Raydeus, I obviously meant natural oil. Switching to synthetic, we'd probably be just as well off shifting to solar or something else (I had read recently about someone managing to manufacture solar panels cheaper than coal)

Ethanol is a bad idea; it takes up land and resources which were originally (and better) used for food. Combined with the US government, it's even worse, but even by itself it causes food shortages and drives up prices; compared to other alternatives which could use less space, fewer resources, and land that would pretty much never be used for food crops (think deserts; there have been plans for some extremely large solar collectors in the American southwest, for instance)

Eh, corn ethanol (the kind the US uses) is a bad idea, sugar cane ethanol has more octanage and is easier to produce in the right enviorentment.

Also, that thing about land used to make ethanol affecting food supply is a myth. What is driving food prices up is oil, not shortage in production or lack of land for farming. It is because oil is involved in every part of the process (from machinery operation, energy for processing, package manufacturing, transportation, etc. etc.) that food prices are going up along with the price of oil.

And like I said, the US could easily make a deal with the mexican government so they could use all the land that's currently iddle in places like Veracruz to produce massive amounts of sugar cane ethanol without ever touching any land destined for food crops. But I doubt they would ever do that.