Obama's Speech on Race & America

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

The whole Dr. Reverend Jeremiah Wright (please show some respect and use the man's titles) scenario is blown way out of proportion. Anyone who things that Obama is going to win America by having a mindset like that is not only ignorant, but paranoid as well.

Obama has given no inclination that he thinks that way. You'd think that in 2008, a Black man running for President wouldn't be a big deal, but here goes the media starting their shit show again.

I'm tired of hearing about Dr. Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

2. USA provides Isreal with weapons and money to defend itself (documented fact). But what is defending yourself when you toss the first blow. Isreal started the 6 day war (with egypt,syria,jordan) the retalition from the allied nations against isreal resaulted in a short war, the victor being Isreal mainly due to superior american military equipment and american money to back it. The resault had Isreal playing the "Jew-Card" claiming they were being assaulted and attacked by the other nations (no doccumented proof of these claims) The Boundries were redrawn to inclyde former parts of Jordan and footings into the suez canal. It also put palestine directly into the nation of isreal. The US sponsered mid east watchdog is the most powerful nation in the mid east and activley flexes its mussle by oppresing (doccumented) the palestinians. When the palestinians respond to the opression they are considered terrorists and jihads. However Isreal is considerd just in its persecution and murdering of innocent civilians, based on accusation of terror.

This is very iffy. I for one fully support Israel because they bought that land from the Palistinians so the Jews could finally have a safe haven to call their own, yet everyone in that hell hole dirt bag region wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for no good reason other than they are Jewish and they don't see eye to eye on religion.

As far as I'm concerned they can all burn in hell. Leave the Jews alone already, they've done nothing to deserve the kind of oppression they have faced since the dawn of time. No one has the right to wipe out any other race, period.



And Ty WM. Honestly, why does it even bother people? Do they honestly think that this whole time Barack has been lying, that he's secretly a hater? I don't think anyone who really was as hateful as some people seem to think would be able to pull off what Barack has.

There was one really good letter on the Cafferty File, where a woman was talking about how her father would use ethnic slurs about anyone who wasn't middle-class and white enough to him and asks if she should have left home. Honestly, people are reading into this way too much.

Yes what he said was way out of line, but no it does not necessarily reflect the views of his church and those who attend it. More the point, that was 10 seconds of an entire sermon, one of many that he would do throughout the week. As I understand it, Wright was a very well respected man and even praised for some of his sermons. Plus, the guy is old and has seen a lot of shit so I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say that that kind of hateful speech was the main focus of all his sermons.

I seriously doubt anyone would regularly attend them otherwise.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Yes what he said was way out of line, but no it does not necessarily reflect the views of his church and those who attend it. More the point, that was 10 seconds of an entire sermon, one of many that he would do throughout the week. As I understand it, Wright was a very well respected man and even praised for some of his sermons. Plus, the guy is old and has seen a lot of shit so I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say that that kind of hateful speech was the main focus of all his sermons.

I seriously doubt anyone would regularly attend them otherwise.

THANK YOU

I wish I could give you like, a million Thanks Clicks right now.

Firstly, leave it to the media to:
A) Show only a few seconds of a sermon, that easily lasts at least an hour, even in churches that have multiple sermons (and with the amount of membership in churches such as the Reverend's, it's possible, because I know my church at home has 3..).
THEN:
B) Have a week long analysis of the snippet and blow it out of proportion.

The media has been in love with Barack for so long, they seem to have forgotten that he is a Black man, so the minute an associated Black man starts talking with fever and passion, the shields come up, and White America gets paranoid again.

Recall how (positively) "shocked" we were when Wayne Brady was on the Dave Chappelle show and he was using the N-word and cursing. I never saw that side of Wayne Brady, so it made for good entertainment. With the singing and charming demeanor, it's easy to forget that Wayne Brady is another brotha from Orlando, who had to use his talents to achieve more than what was thought possible of his peers.

Barack's story is the same story of any affluent Black man. It's easy for non-Black members of America (even this message board) to say things such as, "Stop using the Race Card," "We're not doing/saying this because he's Black."

Shit, it's easy for people to look at me, being in a Greek Organization, and say "I wouldn't have done that." "How could you go through something like that." "I would've just left." "Fuck that."

Point is, it's always easy to look from the outside and judge.

Here we have Barack on one hand. Charming. Eloquent. Inspiring. "I really think he can pull America together." "He's so great, he's not tainted by Washingtonian." Etc Etc Etc. People generally love the man.

Then enter an outspoken Black man: a Community Leader that can easily rally thousands of people to whatever cause he wants because he's articulate and a Reverend, and no one dare go against a man that can indirectly prove that God wants you to do a certain thing AND be believable.

Quite frankly, if White America wasn't so scared right now, this wouldn't be a big deal. Fear tactics work both ways. Nothing is threatening about Barack in terms of the persona we've come accustomed to. You add in the possibility of a Black man, angry about the oppression and the general oblivious nature of the rest of the country, then the pot starts to get some spices.

Anyone who says "racism doesn't exist anymore, stop trying to play that card," lives in the world of Win-Dixie, because racism is prevalent even when you aren't looking for it.

Even as a Campus Leader, I still get type-casted whenever I walk in a room of people that don't know me.

I know how aggravating it is when words get twisted out of proportion, and this Reverend Wright nonsense is just more distracting fodder. As soon at the media said, "His words almost sound Farrakhanian," I lost what dwindling respect I had for half of the pundits on CNN.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

This is very iffy. I for one fully support Israel because they bought that land from the Palistinians so the Jews could finally have a safe haven to call their own, yet everyone in that hell hole dirt bag region wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for no good reason other than they are Jewish and they don't see eye to eye on religion.

On the "buying" the land, this is not true. The UN (established shortly after WW2 replacing the league of nations) Created Isreal on the west bank, creating a sort of "refugee nation" for them to go to were they wouldnt be persecuted. Originally Isreal and Palastine were seperate nations living sid by side. However it took only less than 20 years with US training, backing, and thousands of US weapons of war for them to redraw their own boundries which to today include: The former nation of palestine, A portion of mideastern egypt providing acces to the suez canal, extended boundries into lebenon, and jordan. These revision were bought with blood in a war started by Isreal, however were redrawn again by the UN as an apeasement to the jews for their hardships in WW2.

Fast forward to 2006, Jewish army crosses into Lebenon and soilders are captured. This is considered an act of war by many nations. This sparks Isreal into firing rockets and bombarding lebenon. Out of the wood work come the lebanese patriots, to fight back against Isreal. These patriots of lebenon are considered terrorist by Isreal and her allies (USA). For 40 years Isreal has like the United States, commited far more acts of terror then the nations around them. However when the rockets start hitting home it suddenley becomes, the stone throwers who are terrorist.

Isreal has absolutley no sympathy from me as does the United States post 9/11. You reap what you sow. If you oppress people long enough and consider their walks of life inferior and try to change that, eventually they will rise up and respond. You use terror, to change people minds, however it may be indirect, the fact is you are using it.

November,2005

US military kills 24 unarmed civilians in a savage attack on a homestead.

This is why we need the troops out because its not a question of what will happen if we do get them out. But more of a question of what will happen if we don't

[Malacite]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I'm not buying a word of that BS >_>


The Jews just want to be left alone, and that's a fact.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

My ass they want to be left alone. Their the ones who started the issue in the first place. They emigrated as slaves from eqypt, drove out the original settlers in the middle east and established a colony. They were the first to cast a stone. Now they have been pushed around for centuries and suddenly we need to leave them alone. I they wanted to be left alone greenland is pretty big. Why not go there where there is no one for miles. Instead of placing a western backed Jewish Nation in the heart of a prodominitly muslim region.

The door swings both ways and until they leave the muslims alone in the region then the muslims there have every right to defend themselves. CNN is probably the most white washed name in news next to fox. There little show last night on 5 years after trys to make america out to be hero's when it has done nothing but destroyed the country of Iraq. The coverage on the lebanese skirmish in '06 was heavily biased against the patriots defending themselves against the Israelis. wether or not an organization kidnapped 2 israelis does not provoke an attack on beruit, the capital of lebenon (that is no where near the border, nor where the incident took place). Isreal killed thousands of innocent people in the name of "freedom" and you expect them to be left alone.

The cries for Israel to be wiped from the map are as equal to the US and its Allies claims that the insurgency in Iraq must be squashed. Both these instances are remarkably similar. Israel has conduced many acts of terror in the region, as have the "Insurgents". How is it remotely ethical to wipe away people who are trying to defend their nation, and not allow people the wish to wipe Israel out to defend theirs. Its fundemently flawed. Great Satan indeed. The wishes and views from America and her allies are pushed down the throats of people who wish to run their live the way they wish too. Forcing feeding them western and Christian Ideals is a flawed way to spread the notion of peace and freedom.

I dont know if you have had the chance to read the bible, or the kharan. I have read both.

Prodominitly Christian nations such as america have their laws and rights. The commandments and other suggestions based throughout the bible are embeded within those laws and rights.

Muslim nations are the exact same, thier Kahran states that women have no power so that is one of their fundamental laws.

What right do other nations have to push their rhtoric on another. This is no different then the conquest era when european countries pushed their ideals on the nations they conquerd. The Zulu war in Africa was a resault of the British pushing thier policy on a nation that id not wish to have it. The Native american wars are of the same thing.

Obama talks highley about change and bridging the Gap but I have not heard him speak of bridging a religous gap nor a ethical gap. Only a race gap. I have not heard any candidate talk of how they will restore peace to Iraq or the middle east, possibly because they cant cope with the fundamental difference between the nations.

The Western Nations consider themselves supperior as does the UN. If you look at the past, western nations have since the begining of this age (A.D., B.C.E) tried to impose their rhtoric on the mid east and african nations.

A over haul of Internaional Unity is what this president needs to bring to the table, a restructering of how we precive ourselves. The war in Iraq is the 5th Crusade nothing more than oe nation trying to impose its values on another. Its disgusting.

On the other side of the spectrum you have the muslims who up until 9/11 according to claims (there has never been any doccumented martirial supporting facts for this claim) have done nothing to provoke attacks. The US invading Iraq in Gulf War was the straw that broke the camels back. It would not have been an issue had they sat on the border in kuwait and defended it there. Instead they inflamed the middle east by an act of aggresion against one of there nations. The same act of agression that was shown when Lebenon, Jordan, Egypt, and Palastine got territory cut for the nation of Isreal.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

My ass they want to be left alone. Their the ones who started the issue in the first place. They emigrated as slaves from eqypt, drove out the original settlers in the middle east and established a colony. They were the first to cast a stone. Now they have been pushed around for centuries and suddenly we need to leave them alone. I they wanted to be left alone greenland is pretty big. Why not go there where there is no one for miles. Instead of placing a western backed Jewish Nation in the heart of a prodominitly muslim region.

So much ignorance in that statement I don't even want to begin to debate this. We're getting waaaay off topic here anyway.

[DakAttack]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I like where this thread is going.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Obama talks highly about change and bridging the Gap but I have not heard him speak of bridging a religious gap nor a ethical gap. Only a race gap. I have not heard any candidate talk of how they will restore peace to Iraq or the middle east, possibly because they cant cope with the fundamental difference between the nations.

Firstly, Obama is running for the Democratic nomination to be the Candidate for the President of the United States. In the midst of an ensuing recession and with tension at home, he doesn't need to focus efforts on foreign policy insofar as it relates to the internal problems in the Middle East; not until he is going toe-to-toe with McCain, and they are debating foreign policy.

Because what the world DEFINITELY needs is America playing "Big Brother" again. We sure could use another war right now. That's helped us so much in the past 7 years. See how much every country loves us?

Obama only brought up the issue of race recently, and that's when it was brought before him. Someone tried playing his Black card when he had it safely nestled to the bottom of his deck, and didn't want to use the Mana to bring it to his hand on the next draw cycle.

When there is a focus on Foreign Policy, Domestic Policy tanks, and vice versa. There are too many problems in America for this country to focus on "trying to make things better with everyone else."

I could honestly care less about the rest of the world when I can't even figure out how me and my mom are going to pay off my student loans within the allotted period, or how we'll pay for my asthma medicine when I turn 21 this summer and I'm not covered by her meager health-plan, or how she is going to continue to pay bills, car insurance, buy food and still afford the medication for her ulcers, anemia and ensuing diabetes.

God forbid she comes down with something else, or I'll have to start robbing grocery stores.

The last time I looked towards the future with a blind optimism was the 1st grade, when I thought that all it took to be an astronaut was a dream and a poster above my bed stating I could, "do it."

It's been more than 10 years since I had this much faith in humanity, and it pains me to see how he gets demonized. It's almost as if there are powers that be that don't want America healed.

Bush > Clinton > Bush > Clinton is not a cycle that I would like to see. Honestly.

If Obama doesn't get the Democratic nomination, I'm leaving the party for my own good.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I agree wish But it just so happens that the latest chain of bush>clinton>bush has made US foreign policy on the middle east pretty damn inportant. Especially since were talking about issues involving the current war etc. I think this issue on this war and its backround are extremly important. How ever a candidate who says america was wrong and not paerson was wrong dosent win.

[jwalton]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

No actually Congress wasn't in any of the above conversations. We were talking about presidential nominees and their lip service. I know where Congress is going and how they wheel and deal, now I want to see some solid commitment from our nominees. I previously said that I would like to see a good solid fleshed out plan for the situation in Iraq but the problem is no one has one. They hem and they haw and they make vague generalizations but a plan of action....nope. Can't do that until we know who's ass needs the most kissing. The issue with Iraq is like the roots of a tree, there are so many tendrils that are snaked out in so many directions that there is no way its going to be quick.....or painless. Politicians have to be careful about who's toes they step on so their little speeches are always just lip service.

And I never said Congress was in any of the above conversations. I said that it's very much relevant. Since you're completely unwilling to do any research for yourself and just want to regurgitate the words "lip service" over and over:

GovTrack: S. 670: Text of Legislation
GovTrack: S. 433: Text of Legislation

Here are two bills, each from Senator Clinton and Senator Obama that are among all the other proposed bills from other Democrats that also revolve around pulling out of Iraq:

GovTrack: Bill Search

I mean, how much more committed can a candidate get beyond voting for legislation to get out of Iraq, writing legislation to get out of Iraq, and campaigning for President so that legislation to get out of Iraq can be passed with plans and ideas that are published on their websites? This is a very simple process:

1. Congress lays out a bill that states that the troops must be phased out of Iraq over a set period of time
2. President signs bill into law
3. Military chain of command makes it happen

Step 2 is the problem right now, and if there's any doubt in your mind that you think Clinton or Obama aren't committed to this effort, then you've definitely been ignoring what's been going on the last few years.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/IraqFactSheet.pdf
HillaryClinton.com - Media Release

There's even a recently released plan that was unveiled at the Take Back America conference in DC a few days ago:

http://burner.3cdn.net/20f4382dfab715f445_qvm6ibjk6.pdf

Or, you can go back to making the "lip service" complaints, I guess. *shrug*

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Okay, seriously people?

If the trolling on the Red Mage forum wasn't good enough, maybe the trolling on a political thread will convince you all to ignore him.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I dont see how its trolling there YM, the fact is none of the candidates have touched on several topice, that includes foreign relations, where its quite evident the US has lacked in that regard for some years.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

the fact is none of the candidates have touched on several topice, that includes foreign relations, where its quite evident the US has lacked in that regard for too God Damned long

FTFY

[Vyuru]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

1. The Nuking of Japan

- In a ough total nearly 680,000 innocent civilians were killed by the 2 bombs dropped on hiroshima, and nagasaki. These were non combatants who were brutally slaughtered by america in the summer of 1946 (august 6th and 9th). There has been no formal appology, nor reimbursment to japan for the mass loss of life nor the mass destruction caused. Often times this is rebutled by "They attacked us in pearl harbour by suprise." Well it is a documented fact US patrol boats sunk a japanese war vessel thus and act of agression from a neutral state. The retaliation by the japanese was swift and just wiping out military targets in the pacific at pearl harbour. The differences between these attacks was the japanese targeted american military targets where the americans attacked civilians directley to terroize (which was what the plan was the usa wanted to scae japan from the war) the population (an act of terrorism)

Dude, seriously, first Rdm melee stuff and now this? Stop digging holes for yourself.

Often times this is rebutled by "They attacked us in pearl harbour by suprise." Well it is a documented fact US patrol boats sunk a japanese war vessel thus and act of agression from a neutral state.

A japanese minisubmarine was sighted outside of Pearl Harbor at 0357 hours December 7th. The minisubmarine was in restriced and off limits area to foreign submarines, and it was headed submerged, for the harbor entrance. The minisub was attacked by the U.S destroyer, the Ward, at 0645 hours and sunk at 0645 hours 1000 yards outside the entrance to the harbor as it was following a tanker into port.

At 0755 hours the first wave of Japanese plances attacked Pearl Harbor, one hour and 10 minutes after the minisub was sunk. Shortly after the minisub was sunk the Ward captured a fishing boat full of Japanese naval men that was monitoring Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor consisted off:

6 Aircraft carriers
2 Battleships
2 Heavy crusiers
1 Light crusier
9 Destroyers
Roughly 378 planes (should be a bit more since the Hiryu was 1,450 tons heavier than the Soryu)
Unknown amount of supporting vessels

The retaliation by the japanese was swift and just

Yeah, when the rest of the fleet is sitting 200 nautical miles north of Oahu, the planes are going to get there fast.

And yes, it is a documented FACT that a Japanese warship was sunk in U.S waters in an area that it was not supposed to be in while it was trying to enter the harbor WHILE trying to avoid detection.

I hope you aren't going to suggest that that force was there just to pick flowers and frolic in the fields.

These were non combatants who were brutally slaughtered by america in the summer of 1946 (august 6th and 9th).

WW2 was one of the first wars in which the old rules of war were completely thrown out the window. You have the Germans to thank for that mostly since as far as I know they were the first to start bombing civilian targets.

The differences between these attacks was the japanese targeted american military targets where the americans attacked civilians directley to terroize (which was what the plan was the usa wanted to scae japan from the war) the population (an act of terrorism)

Rape of Nanking, perhaps you've heard of it? Yes no maybe? The way the Japanese treated the Koreans during WW2? The women that were captured on the march by the Japanese and forced ,to serve their army as prostitutes? The whole Phillipines? That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Guess what, what the Japanese did to their prisoners not to mention the Chinese and the Koreans made the Germans look like boyscouts. Guess what else? The Japanese were never made to account for what they did like the Germans where. We don't even KNOW how many Chinese civilians the Japanese killed by using them as biological warfare test subjects.

Furthermore, you actually think that the U.S thought a handful of bombers dropping fire bombs would scare Japan off? The Doolittle raid was a propaganda stunt to show both the Japanese and our men that yes we could in fact reach out and give them a smack, no matter how small (or stupid IMO) it was.

Let's look at some facts shall we?

# of people killed from standard bombing: 198,961
# of people missing from standard bombing: 8,064
# of people injured from standard bombing: 271,617

#total casualties from standard bombing: 478,642

Now then:

# of people killed from atomic bombing: 109,328
# of people missing from atomic bombing: 15,971
# of people injured from atomic bombing: 78,488

#total casualties from atomic bombing: 203,787

# total casualties from warship bombardment: ~3,000.

1) Only 200,000 casualties resulted from the nuclear bombings. Kindly do NOT attribute standard bombing casualties with nuclear bombing casualties.

2) Standard bombing casualties were slightly over 2x as high as the nuclear bombing casualties, should we offer apologies for those victims as well? While we're at it, why don't we just apologize to Japan for ever defending ourselves against them?

Next, the U.S dropped the bombs AFTER demanding Japan's unconditional surrender, twice I believe. Which was turned down by the Japanese.

The nuclear bombings served several purposes:

1) It showed that we could destroy them without ever needing to land on their shore. The nuclear bombings were the one thing that was able to shock the Japanese government into surrendering.

2) After 4 years of fighting, more for the British, why the hell should we risk our men when the Japanese should have surrendered? Especially after seeing the Japanese defense of Iwo Jima, which was considered a part of the homeland, not even Japan itself? Do you have ANY idea of how much worse the fighting would have been in Japan if we had landed troops? The fighting on Iwo Jima would have seemed like nothing compared to what we would have seen in Japan.

3) The Japanese had slightly over a million men in the army on Japan. Even at the best realistic possiblity of we kill one Japanese for every one member of our landing force lost, that would have been 2 million people killed in taking Japan. We all know that this is a laughable estimate, at best. The body count would have been much higher.

In summary, and while it might be cold, I'll take even your grossly inflated 680,000 dead civilians over the untold millions of army personal and civilians that would have been killed had we invaded. The nuclear bombings saved both our men's lives and theirs.

Read Churchill, read accounts of WW2 from Japanese who lived and fought during that time, and get an idea of just what was going on before you start spouting off next time.