What's your pet peeve in RL?

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Third, asking for games to be more inclusive literally benefits everyone.

I'll disagree with this on a purely theoretical basis. I have to imagine that there are games that are both worth making/playing while simultaneously not being everyone's cup of tea. If we go to the extreme of this, that every game must be inclusive and accommodate everyone, then we'll end up missing out on niche titles that might have been genuinely excellent without appealing to everyone. That doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage the industry to stop being so fucking exclusionary to so many people in so many ways, just that making everything more inclusive across the board has the potential to limit game design in ways that might prevent inoffensive but otherwise excellent games from being made.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

I don't think you have to take it to extemes.

Does the hero always have to be a white male? I'd shake that up as needed.
Does the game emphasize romance at all? I'd consider gender and sexuality options.

I've played SMT IV into the ground and I don't see any reason why Flynn and Isabeau couldn't switch places as protagonists. Demifiend prior to him was played up like Adam at points, so yeah, him being a guy works.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

I don't think you have to take it to extemes.

Does the hero always have to be a white male? I'd shake that up as needed.

Indeed. Limiting the protagonist to always being white and male limits design space. Just don't demand that the protagonist always be some shapeshifting doppleganger to accommodate all parties if the story to be told benefits from having a specific protagonist/character type/etc.

[Firewind]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

The best example of inclusive writing is actually in Alien. The writers for that movie didn't have any genders for each character in mind. They just wrote all the dialogue for it and went with whatever seemed to work for each character.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Similarly feminism's primary tenet of "treat women like people...because they are" is pretty difficult to fuck up.

"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

Aside, I don't care what Sarkeesian/Quinn mighta/coulda/woulda done, because nothing they could possibly do justifies the relentless assaults against them.

I agree with the original messages of these groups, but I can't in good conscience support the twisted and malignant paths they have taken.

It would be wise, then, to support the principles behind the original messages, instead of whatever toxic individuals you seem to be describing in particular detail.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

It would be wise, then, to support the principles behind the original messages, instead of whatever toxic individuals you seem to be describing in particular detail.

I do, but it's quite difficult to be supportive when people keep banging on about "patriarchy", "privilege" and "trigger warnings" all goddamn day.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

How does the crap that other people (most of whom you don't even know) say affect how supportive you are? I say you shouldn't let it, if you're truly a better person than that.

[Armando]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Granted, the tumblr crowd is mostly under 25. They have a lot of growing up to do, a lot of learning to pick their battles.

Maybe that's not really the problem. A while ago I stumbled upon a post with a pretty interesting thesis:

Even though I disagreed with how she was using the term, in retrospect I think Bullshitcockroach hit the nail on the head when she said “a lot of social justice is written by minorities who are not setting out to inform, educate, or lead a movement”. The problem with Tumblr is that, by design, it makes this into Social Justice activism. What is created as a personal statement is going to get reblogged or spread through tags, causing it to be delivered directly to people who disagree with it as though it is aggression against them.
...
In addition to this, the whole reblog culture means that context is inevitably removed.
...
And what are the possible responses to that? You can’t realistically expect people to get to know you so that they can understand your message - not when they are getting hit by a constant feed of content. Instead, you stand and fight. You write with the knowledge that you will be attacked for it, even though from other people’s perspective you are the one attacking them. You make short, snappy statements that are vague enough that people can agree with them no matter what, giving you the thrill of Gradually Incrementing Numbers with minimal threat of backlash. And in effect, you contribute to Tumblr’s strange, volatile Social Justice culture. There is no such thing as “Tumblr Social Jusitce”, just like The Patriarchy is not a literal cabal of men in cloaks who pass sexist edicts. Instead, it’s a series of design choices and social structures that enforce a harmful outcome. After touching it with my own hands, I feel that Tumblr Social Justice is not a group of angry people seeking to attack others but rather an inevitable outcome of Tumblr itself.
...
Though people often admonish 4chan for being hateful, after everything I have seen with it I am honestly inclined to praise it as a bastion of positivity.

Just think about how 4chan works for a moment: you are encouraged to be anonymous. There are only three reasons you would post there: to ask a question, to change someone else’s views, or to simply entertain or enjoy human interaction. You receive no reward from putting another person in their place. You receive no reward for a well-written post that makes you personally look good. You also suffer no ramifications for saying something horrible, though there is likewise no incentive to actually do that. The design also retains context: an artist posting drawings on the Comics and Cartoons board is not going to get harsh, Critique-board-level criticism because it is understood that those are different places and the people there are seeking different things. There is no risk of his work suddenly reaching the wrong place and him having to defend himself. The structure is inherently rewarding; you get almost exactly what you ask for.

Like, if you ever feel disillusioned or angry at how Tumblr handles social justice, try looking at 4chan’s /lgbt/ board. The difference is amazing.

The sort of mass chain reaction you see in tumblr can't be achieved when all you have is immature kids posting to their blogs in isolation.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

How does the crap that other people (most of whom you don't even know) say affect how supportive you are? I say you shouldn't let it, if you're truly a better person than that.

It affects how supportive I am of "feminism", the feminist movement or whatever the fuck you want to call it. I find it difficult to support zealotry. If that makes me a bad person so be it. I can support equal rights for every worthless meat bag on this planet without having to do it by backing crazy people.

On the other hand, Armando's post is quite enlightening and makes me wonder if maybe it isn't just a bunch of crazy people after all. But then again perhaps it doesn't matter if the end result of that system is the same as if the anger were there at the outset. At the very least it reinforces my opinion that tumblr is just the worst goddamn place on the internet right now.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

The thing is, most of the non-vocal feminists (much like the not-so-vocal Christians) abhor the vocal subset who do things in the name of feminism and hate all wrapped up in one neat little bow. I do deride people who believe that being a "feminist" means having free reign to hate men and take all of their rights away (or even kill them all, which is ridiculous but they seem to somehow believe that without males we can still subsist as a species ... )

Much like any other movement in history, there are always a bunch of rabid nutjobs that make all of the sane ones look like raving lunatics simply by association. I have called out misandrists on their hate-filled bullshit and I won't stand for them using feminism as a vehicle to hate and belittle men. That's not what it's about, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a fucking idiot.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

There are absolutely people who identify as feminists with whom well-intentioned persons would do better than to associate. They tend to be the kind who try to shun trans-women from feminism as a whole--at least, that's what tends to be a dead giveaway. At any rate, they have nothing to do with what feminism is.

Oh, by the way, cid.

The sales of the game were sensational, so it seemed like the choice of a female protagonist didn't hurt sales at all. Sierra did a survey to find out what men and women of different ages thought about the game and what they thought of playing a male or a female characters. The results were very unexpected/interesting. It turned out that the men didn't care at all about the sex of the main protagonist as long as the game had an interesting story and fun gameplay, while the women actually prefered to play with a female protagonist. It wasn't the other way around as one could have thought.

Sauce

Yes, making games more inclusive does literally benefit everyone. It did in the past; it will continue to do so in the future.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

There are absolutely people who identify as feminists with whom well-intentioned persons would do better than to associate. They tend to be the kind who try to shun trans-women from feminism as a whole--at least, that's what tends to be a dead giveaway. At any rate, they have nothing to do with what feminism is.

TERFs and radfems can sound almost indistinguishable the extreme radical right at times. Cathy Brennan would be an example. She owns abut a dozen trans* hate sites, mostly to see transwomen are harassed but also to shame transmen. She also tries to dictate how her fellow lesbians present themselves and will pull the "no true scotsman" bit a lot, but with women. No "real" woman would do that., etc. That's her thing. She's also a lawyer, the kind that cribs notes from the Westboro playbook.

What it comes down to for me on this whole thing is being stirred up by some really manipulative people. I see kids that are social outcasts being weaponized for the gain of some rightwingers in dire need of attention. These are people your most hated talk radio personality wouldn't be caught dead with. Take it as a sign.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

It has been basically a disgusting mess outside since just a few minutes before I got up this morning and I'm just completely over it. I do not want to drive 32 miles to school in this bullshit.

[DakAttack]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

It has been basically a disgusting mess outside since just a few minutes before I got up this morning and I'm just completely over it. I do not want to drive 32 miles to school in this bullshit.

Yes, Florida is a disgusting mess.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Trying to save money by not going to the school bookstore for a novel I have to read.

Go to Barnes & Noble, they don't have it. Go to another. They don't either. "Where's the nearest store that has this book?" 45 minutes away.

Fiiiiiiiiiiiine, I'll go to the goddamn college bookstore. /sigh