What's your pet peeve in RL?

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

So is the problem that these programs exist and cost money(taxes everyone has to pay anyway), or that they can be gamed? Because those seem like two very different issues to me.

[Mezlo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Welfare, food stamps, and medicaid. Yes, let's expand these, so that the people already on them have no real incentive to get off of them, and the people who aren't but who are barely afloat will find it more enticing to loaf around jobless because the government will take care of them.

this.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

The problem isn't that they exist. The problem is that people want the programs to take care of them forever and really have no motivation to get off of them; and that the government allows them to do it. If it's supposed to be a six month term, after six months, you're done, that's it, kaput. Unless you can show a reason why you can't work (in which case your ass needs to get on disability), then you should have a job and be off the assistance in six months.

If I see the line, "Still no job! But I got the government to take care of me," one more time, I may go on a murderous rampage. Just saying. The government is not your mommy.

[Taskmage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

I'm with you on creating leaner social programs, but I don't buy this idea that there are so many people deliberately staying impoverished because the payout on these food stamps programs are just so good. I'm not saying there aren't people who are lazy moochers who are on the dole, but I think people take individual examples of this and blow them out to characterize the majority of people getting help. Regardless of who you blame, everyone knows there are a lot more people now who need help, and if we accept having social programs at all, it's a given that at a time like this they're going to get bigger.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

The problem isn't that they exist. The problem is that people want the programs to take care of them forever and really have no motivation to get off of them;

That's just human nature. People will always be lazy.

and that the government allows them to do it.

That is a problem with the system itself. People are always going to try to game the system, but the solution isn't to defund it or some such, but rather to alter the system so that as few people as possible are able to game the system while still providing for those who use it honestly.

Then again, I'm also of the belief that a good deal of our problems would be solved by a massive reduction in population. Not enough jobs to go around? Cut the population in half, now everyone can find a job opening. </hyperbole>

Seriously though, it perplexes my that people always seem to jump straight to "no, don't ever give it any more money ever" and skip the whole "why don't we fix the damn thing first" option.

[Taskmage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

The facile solution is always to give the program more or less money. If lawmakers ever talk specifics then people fall asleep on them, so there's no political incentive to create real solutions that address complex problems like how to catch people who falter while still giving them incentive to excel.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

I'm not opposed to fixing it. But if they want to make it bigger, they're going to make the problem bigger, too. That's what I'm having issue with.

Create jobs to help these people find jobs and get off government assistance. I know programs like these exist, those are the programs that we need, programs to help people help themselves (Teach a man to fish, etc.). If they keep it the same size it is right now and work on regulating it, revamping it, and turning it back into the system it was meant to be - a short-term solution - then they won't need to expand the program and spend more money on it; they'll be able to keep it at the same level of funding it is now - or even less - and you'll have more people using it short-term and getting back on their own footing - which by the way, feels pretty damn good.

I'm aware that my tax dollars are always going to be spent by the government. I just really want to see better regulation of the welfare program. Don't make it bigger - keep it the way it is and get people off of it.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

so there's no political incentive to create real solutions that address complex problems

The entire problem with our government in a nutshell right here.

How can we fix this?

[Mezlo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

A way to cut down on those mooching off the greatly enhanced welfare system would be to randomly drug test them. Some would argue this is an envasion of privacy, but if you're accepting government funds because you NEED them to help support your family in a time of need, you better not be using recreational drugs with said money...

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

I agree with drug testing. Though the war on drugs is so retarded in general.

I remember when I was on food stamps, my EBT card (basically a debit card for food) wouldn't allow me to purchase anything but food. So I'd go to the grocery, put all my stuff on the belt, they'd scan it, I'd use my card - and the machines would auto-deduct the items that I couldn't buy with it, and I'd get a second balance for things like TP, soap, laundry detergent, etc. I tried buying beer once just for fun - didn't work. That came out of my own pocket. It's a good system.

Welfare needs to work this way. There should be NO cash option. No ATM usage. It should all be electronic. And it should only allow the purchase of essentials - clothing, food, toilet paper. Use it to pay your light bill. Gasoline. Want to buy beer? Not on the government, you don't. Want to buy drugs? Good luck getting the cash for it. Granted people do try to trade - I've had people ask me to give them cash in exchange for purchasing my items at the grocery store - but that's highly illegal and a lot of people won't do it. That would be a start. People are still getting checks, which lets them cash and spend however they want.

Incidentally, child support should also work this way, on a card, which only allows for certain items to be purchased. No fancy shoes for you, babymama. It would take a lot to implement but the technology is already there, I know this because I saw it in action.

That would be a start, and would help allocate the funds better. If I was on welfare because I didn't have a job, I'd use it to pay my rent, and then pay my other bills. I wouldn't cash the check and go get a new tattoo or trick out my ride. /facepalm. You get the idea ... it needs to be more heavily regulated so that people can't buy shit that isn't necessary. Clothing? Good. Hell, even go one better - regulate how much you can spend on one article of clothing. I can buy jeans at Wal-Mart for under twenty bucks. Spending anything more than that, to me, is a waste. Granted, many will argue that up to $50 is acceptable, okay. I'll give you that one. But $200 pair of jeans? Get the fuck off my government dollar bitch.

Of course not everyone is spending like that. But part of what welfare should be is learning to live within one's means. But do everything electronically, then you have a means to prohibit certain things from purchase, which already makes the system a lot better.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

A way to cut down on those mooching off the greatly enhanced welfare system would be to randomly drug test them. Some would argue this is an envasion of privacy, but if you're accepting government funds because you NEED them to help support your family in a time of need, you better not be using recreational drugs with said money...

There's an argument to be made about the 4th amendment...

More to the point: What happens when someone fails the test? If the goal is to get folks back to the point where they can be productive members of society, would you be willing to fit the bill for an addict's rehab program when they fail that drug test?

[Taskmage]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

A way to cut down on those mooching off the greatly enhanced welfare system would be to randomly drug test them. Some would argue this is an envasion of privacy, but if you're accepting government funds because you NEED them to help support your family in a time of need, you better not be using recreational drugs with said money...

I think a sensible welfare program wouldn't give anyone money they could spend on drugs in the first place. "Send us your rent and utility bills, we'll take care of those for you for a while. If you have a mortgage or student loans, we'll work with your creditors to defer payments at a reduced interest rate until you get back on your feet. Here's a card you can use at the grocery store. We'll put enough on that each month to make sure you don't starve. Last, here's the contact information for a case worker who will help you find a new job. Your continued eligibility for this program will depend on your cooperation with and the evaluation of this case worker." That's how I'd do it.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

Pretty much how I think it should work, you just said it in less words than I did. XD

[DakAttack]

Re: What's your pet peeve in RL?

In Maryland, you have to jump through hoops to get welfare, unemployment, or disability. I want to say there's a lot of people living off of it with no intention of doing anything else with their lives, but that's counter to the experiences I've heard from people first-hand.