Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

[Mhurron]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Murphie already explained it, but that's quite the logical disconnect. Did you completely miss the context? Why in the world would I bring up something to argue against their point, when I'm talking about how silly the rules they choose to ignore and the rules they choose to follow are?

Because you have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect you're simply spouting off things you've heard.

During the Exodus the Israelites made and worshiped a golden calf. Later the Bible says worshiping idols is wrong. Conflicting messages? Did someone forget that both passages existed?

People like to call the Bible inconsistent, or silly because of all these rules laid out in the law. Are you a Jew? Are all christians Jews? The law was given to the Jews and *only* the Jews. Jesus later said the law was fulfill in in him. It was not binding on Christians.

Stoning adulterers was a legal course of action under the law, no different then the State enforcing capital punishment. However it does pretty clearly state God's view on the matter.

So go ahead. List some abominations. Go ahead and follow the law like a moron and hold it up as somehow proving the Bibles worthlessness or the silliness of Christians. While your at it, go ahead and hold someone's lack of knowledge as proof that everything they believe in is wrong.

[Feba]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Because you have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect you're simply spouting off things you've heard.

Ok, so yeah, you aren't reading what I'm saying at all.


I'll be here when you calm the fuck down and realize what I'm talking about.

[eticket109]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Ok, so yeah, you aren't reading what I'm saying at all.


I'll be here when you calm the fuck down and realize what I'm talking about.

Remember who you're replying to.

[Mhurron]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Ok, so yeah, you aren't reading what I'm saying at all.


I'll be here when you calm the fuck down and realize what I'm talking about.

Ya, thats what I thought.

You claim that there are horrible things in Leviticus that are an endorsement of those things and that would somehow make the statement that the Bibles teachings against homosexuality are not against anything at all.

I challenge you to back up your claims.

You claim I don't understand what you're talking about.

That would be the level of enlightenment I expect from Feba.

The implication was that Leviticus is full of bullshit that the WBC and other idiots don't acknowledge, but they are first in line to point to the verse that could be interpreted as saying GAY = BAD.

Might be a point if Feba was only talking about WBC.

[Ziero]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

You don't have to be a hate mongering bastard to hate people, and hate people unfairly, though. But more than that, speaking as an atheist, the thing that gets to most of us is that the laws almost all christians claim are divine and they must follow are just randomly picked. I remember a book about an athiest who decided to spend a year following the laws of the bible literally, and it was downright silly. I'm talking things that pretty much no modern christian would do; many of which were borderline illegal (he couldn't stone any adulterers, but he managed to throw pebbles at one).

As far as I'm concerned, the rules in the bible were written by man not god, not jesus or anyone of the sort, as such they are *horribly* skewed to fit with who ever was writing it at the time's ideals. On top of that, through out the ages, the book has been re-writen and "re-interpreted" to fit with the whims of who ever was in power at the time. Combine with it the facts that our understanding of the world has changed so much and that civilization as a whole has eveolved in ways not even dream about in the times the book was written and it only makes sense that the *books* are completely screwed up. But I'm under the impression that people who follow religion should use the stories related to their beliefs as a guide to how to live their lives as opposed to a specific set of rules. I think the South Park episode where Father Maxi has to hunt down the Document of Vatican Laws ends up describing this belief far better then I can.

Personally though, I'm not religous...but I'm not an athiest. But I respect all other's opinions as long as it's not some hate filled diatribe.

Can a mod please change the title of this to "Westburo Baptist" or "WBC" instead of just Church? Church doesn't do it nearly enough justice.

Also, I agree with this whole heartidly. I believe these people are technically regarded as a "Hate Group" here, so they have absolutely no affiliation with the actual church.

I believe Celebrity deaths should be added to that list.

Fixed. E! needs to be mailbombed, so people can get a fucking life and quit worrying about which member of the Spears family just got knocked up.

Ya know, I was reading about this incident on another forum one day, when I read a post from someone who lived in the same town Heath was from. And what he posted was just one of the truest things I've heard.

TFW2005 - The 2005 Boards - View Single Post - Heath Ledger dead - January, 22, 2008

[Feba]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

You claim that there are horrible things in Leviticus that are an endorsement of those things and that would somehow make the statement that the Bibles teachings against homosexuality are not against anything at all.

Not what I claimed at all. Really. Calm down, and reread my posts. Especially this part:

The thing that gets to most of us is people that claim to follow the bible, or the teachings of Jesus, or whatever else, but don't have a clue what those are, or even worse, if they do have a clue, ignore them.

[Feba]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

As far as I'm concerned, the rules in the bible were written by man

Obviously, I'm not going to argue that. But, Christianity is basically a complete crock if you don't trust that the bible was guided by divinity, and what I'm talking about is that people who claim to follow it almost never do. Instead, almost all (I'm assuming there are a few very rare ones out there I've never had the pleasure of meeting) simply pick and choose rules from the bible to fit what they personally believe, and then claim it is the teaching of God. Or, more commonly, their religious leader did the picking and choosing for them, and they're just following without trying to learn themselves.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1861892&postcount=184

I'm not a sentimental kind of guy either. I didn't get all sniffly when Diana crashed in Paris and I thought Steve Irwin was a bit of a twat who finally teased one animal too many.

That was an excellent post and he made excellent points, but this nearly made me fall out of my chair.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

This is what I hate about discussions regarding religion, the people dead-set against a religion or religious view are often more ignorant than they people they claim to be ignorant. Helps to actually know what you're talking about.

There's a difference between the God of the Old Testiment and the God of the New Testiment and it essentially is what distinguishes the Christian faith from other religions, if you dig deeper you'll learn what that difference is. History classes (if you bothered to pay attention) actually tell you that part of the Bible - called the Torah (basically the initial books of the OT, written by Moses), are also part of Judism (duh) as well as Islam.

People like to take the easy way out and call the Bible fake because Christianity is a more dominant religion in this country, but I never see the people argue against what Jews or Muslims believe. Probably because they'd look like an ass for doing so, or they're just scared to. Easier to find power in numbers for most people. At any rate, those religions have a link to what Christians believe. But if an Athiest would like to go argue against Islam alone in front of a bunch of Muslims I'd pay to see it.

[Feba]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

This is what I hate about discussions regarding religion, the people dead-set against a religion or religious view are often more ignorant than they people they claim to be ignorant. Helps to actually know what you're talking about.

You're doing a pretty horrible job of trying to prove you aren't ignorant.

Let me make this very clear, since it seems like some of you people are too blinded by the "OMGWTFSOMEONEDOESN'TAGREEWITHMYRELIGION" factor to understand what I'm saying:

The vast majority of religious people claim that other people should follow laws that they themselves are perfectly willing to ignore.

Is that easy enough for you to read? You don't need to disprove the bible any more than you need to disprove any other work of fiction to make a point. My point isn't even that religion is wrong or bad. The point is that:

The vast majority of religious people claim that other people should follow laws that they themselves are perfectly willing to ignore.

I never stated that Christians should follow the Old Testament, or that it's blatantly incorrect, because that doesn't need to be said. I understand just fine what the difference is. The problem isn't with the books or religious ideas themselves nearly as much as the fact that

The vast majority of religious people claim that other people should follow laws that they themselves are perfectly willing to ignore.



Now, BBQ, do you realize you're basically a great example of what I'm talking about? Instead of actually reading what was said and understanding it, you simply picked out the parts that were useful to you. As well, instead of trying to understand what people who disagree with you are saying, you decide to call them ignorant due to your blatant misunderstanding or even downright malice twisting of their words.


The only point I was making in that post, as should be clear to any reasonable person (including any sensible religious person), was that

The vast majority of religious people claim that other people should follow laws that they themselves are perfectly willing to ignore.

And that the way that most religious people pick and choose the laws they believe in (or adhere to) to suit their own needs, and frequently use those laws to attack people who believe otherwise, with no basis but their own twisting of said laws. That isn't a disproof of religion or any sort, it is a problem with it, and you would have to be insane to think that is not the case.

Now, can we please move on? Back near the start of the thread, someone said "
Everyday I begin to understand more and more why atheists and others cannot abide the vast majority of Christians.". Someone else said "Yea, I gotta agree with the bbq'd cat in that *most* religious people aren't hate mongering retarts." I was stating my opinions on the subject as someone who is an atheist, and has talked with plenty others to get the general opinion.

It's not an attack on your religion.

It's not what this thread is about.

It's not trying to explain a religion.

It's a comment on why many non-religious people have a strong dislike or distrust of religion. Nothing more.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Feba, honestly, no one cares what you have to say because you've made it clear you don't listen in the first place on this matter. Its all just hot air coming from you, and ignorant hot air at that.

Simply put, you stereotype and villify to the point no one wants to hear what you have to say, this on top of having no fucking idea what you're talking about. You're off in your own little world having your own little debate no one cares about and you're winning with whomever you're arguing with. You're not arguing with many people here, because you do not listen to what they say, you just assume what they say and make a lot of other assumptions to go with it.

That's why discussions on politics and religion utterly fail on forums.

[Feba]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Feba, honestly, no one cares what you have to say

You obviously do, considering the fact that you haven't set me to ignore, and the fact that you're reading my posts at all.

you've made it clear you don't listen in the first place on this matter. Its all just hot air coming from you, and ignorant hot air at that.

Simply put, you stereotype and villify to the point no one wants to hear what you have to say, this on top of having no fucking idea what you're talking about. You're off in your own little world having your own little debate no one cares about and you're winning with whomever you're arguing with. You're not arguing with many people here, because you do not listen to what they say, you just assume what they say and make a lot of other assumptions to go with it.

The ironing is so delicious it could be a cake.

discussions on politics and religion utterly fail when stupid people get involved.

fixed.

[Skoal]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

I talked to God earlier. He said for one of you to sign up for the Snake tournament in the arcade section of this site so we can get it under way.

[Ziero]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

Simply put, you stereotype and villify to the point no one wants to hear what you have to say, this on top of having no fucking idea what you're talking about. You're off in your own little world having your own little debate no one cares about and you're winning with whomever you're arguing with. You're not arguing with many people here, because you do not listen to what they say, you just assume what they say and make a lot of other assumptions to go with it.

Not for nothing, but Feba's point of

The vast majority of religious people claim that other people should follow laws that they themselves are perfectly willing to ignore.

Is actually pretty damn accurate. People twist the words of these religions into however *they* want to percieve them and ignore any and all parts that they disagree with. While at times this can be good, it's more often used to promote hate and evil, especially when you have nuts like the religious cult in this news story.

If anything, THEY insult religion far more then any atheist because they pervert the words that they claim come from their god to create the exact opposite of what religion is *supposed* to do. Religions are more often then not, founded on principles of peace and love, yet people can distort those words to promote hatred to all whom they disagree with. Atheists just ignore the religions completely.

Now, can we please move on? Back near the start of the thread, someone said "
Everyday I begin to understand more and more why atheists and others cannot abide the vast majority of Christians.". Someone else said "Yea, I gotta agree with the bbq'd cat in that *most* religious people aren't hate mongering retarts." I was stating my opinions on the subject as someone who is an atheist, and has talked with plenty others to get the general opinion.

It's not an attack on your religion.

It's not what this thread is about.

It's not trying to explain a religion.

It's a comment on why many non-religious people have a strong dislike or distrust of religion. Nothing more.

That was me!

I was just pointing out that the majority of people who do follow religion shouldn't be judged in the same vein as these ass hats. There is a reason these people are considered a "Hate Group".

Religion isn't a bad thing by it's nature, but it can be perverted easily by people who do pick and choose the rules they follow. And THEY should be the ones who aren't liked or trusted.

[Murphie]

Re: Church to protest Heath Ledger funeral.

I'd like to clarify that I am not intending to paint all Christians with the same brush. I am referring to people like the Phelps clan, Dr. Laura, and other ultra-conservative folks who espouse this particular belief, and who specifically point to that phrase in Leviticus. Like my co-worker who informed me (with a straight face) that homosexuality didn't exist. He can DIAF. The bulk of the Christians I know, though, are great people who have perfectly rational attitudes about things.