Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

[Mhurron]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

I know it wasn't. I was in London in '92 and one day riding the underground there was a bomb threat called in to the station one stop over. All it did was slow things down for 15 minutes and irritated everyone while they did a calm sweep of the station.

Now, hell I'm glad I'm not there.

Britain (as a whole) has turned into a bunch of pussies.

[Nataka]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

I agree with the people that have compared this to virginia tech in that afterwards, we'd see "all the signs where there and we did nothing."

I kind of feel bad for governments in these kind of situations. No matter what they do people will be angry because if they do nothing and something DOES happen, they'll get beaten for not doing anything, but if they DO do something ahead of time like they did to this woman, everyone beats the government for trying to jail something that hasnt done anything directly threatening (though I must say if i found poetry like this on my reciepts I'd feel kind of threatened).

Fact is we cant know what was in her head, but would you rather she went and blew someone up? It sucks if she truly is innocent but she was doing a LOT of really weird stuff...

[Mhurron]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

You also do weird stuff to someone. This is no different then people trying to demonize video game players. To a lot of people, playing video games, any video games, is a sign that you have violent tendencies and are acting on them.

Are you still in support of being round up because of what you think?

[Jarre]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

Part of the "dumming down" as I call it is to do with the media circus that follows these things. Today everything is analyzed broadcast 24/7 etc about the littleist thing, with experts that known F all but only there to fill a seat.

As with everything happeneing in teh Uk the media make it sound worse than it is. and people just take their word for it and act upon it.

[Mhurron]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

Fear mongering is required to have the people support funding stupid ideas.

[Nataka]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

You also do weird stuff to someone. This is no different then people trying to demonize video game players. To a lot of people, playing video games, any video games, is a sign that you have violent tendencies and are acting on them.
Are you still in support of being round up because of what you think?

Don't you think this is a bit of an extreme example? Regardless yes I would NOT like that, because I plan to do nothing wrong. ANd I trust that the court of law would see this and let me go. This lady was seemed to actively try and contact terrorist groups and was doing stuff that seemed rather threatening. Is it a problem of free speech? Yes I suppose it is, but the evidence points that she was very actively seeking to support terrorist groups. Who the hell writes on reciepts about blowing themselves up when they work at a sensitive place like an airport? Would you really just ignore it?

I also agree that maybe they are being a little harsh to her. 9 months in jail is a long time. I think she should have just been fired. However I do not agree that the government should have done nothing as she seemed like a threat to the people around her. If you dont take every potential threat seriously, then one is going to be real and someone's going to get hurt.

[Mhurron]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

[QUOTE=Nataka;744722]Don't you think this is a bit of an extreme example? [quote]No beacuse in both cases the person did nothing wrong.

This lady was seemed to actively try and contact terrorist groups and was doing stuff that seemed rather threatening. Is it a problem of free speech? Yes I suppose it is, but the evidence points that she was very actively seeking to support terrorist groups.

Both Speech and Freedom of Association are protected rights in Britain. She has done nothing illegal until she acts. Until a law has been broken, the government has no place acting. She should have been fired and it end there.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

Both Speech and Freedom of Association are protected rights in Britain. She has done nothing illegal until she acts. Until a law has been broken, the government has no place acting.

I really didn't think you were naive enough to still believe that bullshit.

Still, I suppose we should follow your nation's non-pussy example and taser students in their universities.

[DakAttack]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

You also do weird stuff to someone. This is no different then people trying to demonize video game players. To a lot of people, playing video games, any video games, is a sign that you have violent tendencies and are acting on them.

Are you still in support of being round up because of what you think?

Who actually tries to demonize video game players? There's probably one guy who everbody knows, maybe a few pastors, crazy parents, and every once in a while the media does a story. Where's the fire?

There is no fire, but this girl in Britain is akin to a space heater left on too close to the curtains, or a stack of paper. A fire could potential start, and the government helped avoid that.

Both Speech and Freedom of Association are protected rights in Britain. She has done nothing illegal until she acts. Until a law has been broken, the government has no place acting. She should have been fired and it end there.

Let's all wait for bad shit to happen before we do anything about it. Fire prevention is pointless, right? Because don't actually know whether or not a fire could erupt? It's just wasted effort putting up smoke alarms, and storing a fire extinguisher in the closet, n'est-ce pas?

[Feba]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

would you rather she went and blew someone up?

Honestly, yes. I would rather die with my opinions than live in a state that punishes thoughtcrime.

If she had actually harmed people, lock her up. If she's doing stupid things in front of customers, fire her.

The only reason you (and I'm speaking in general here, not to a specific person) don't care is because you don't identify with them.

Regardless yes I would NOT like that, because I plan to do nothing wrong.

Which is exactly the problem. Most people don't care about freedoms being infringed until it's their freedoms, and by then it's generally too late. There are plenty of dictatorships that could show you this lesson very easily. They start with minorities, people that the general population is angry at or afraid of, they make them into threats. Then they move on to anyone that disagrees with them, or other groups that pose a threat to their power.
------------------------------------------

Still, I suppose we should follow your nation's non-pussy example

The US is very much pussies too. One or two nights ago, we had a shooting in a mall, 8 people killed, 5 people wounded. This morning, they were talking on the news about putting armed guards in malls and increasing police presence in malls. In shopping centers, in the holiday season. Nobody is saying the US is better.

It's just wasted effort putting up smoke alarms, and storing a fire extinguisher in the closet, n'est-ce pas?

The thing is, you can't compare space heaters and candles to intelligent lifeforms. You could also unplug it or put it out completely, risk of fire goes down to near zero that way, wouldn't that be even better?

Comparing human lives to inanimate objects is a dangerous slippery slope.

Who actually tries to demonize video game players?

It's not the people that are demonizing that are the problem, it's the people believe it, which is actually surprisingly large.

[Mhurron]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

Still, I suppose we should follow your nation's non-pussy example and taser students in their universities.

My nation? Money says you guess my nationality wrong.

Now then, naive enough to believe what? That you shouldn't be convicted until you do something illegal or that Britain has a Bill of Rights.

I'd love you to try and disprove either.

[DakAttack]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

The thing is, you can't compare space heaters and candles to intelligent lifeforms. You could also unplug it or put it out completely, risk of fire goes down to near zero that way, wouldn't that be even better?

Comparing human lives to inanimate objects is a dangerous slippery slope.

I enjoy the privilidge of heating my space, and you enjoy the privilidge of thinking whatever you want. If in either situation the possibility of a problem arises, when would be the best time to do something about it?

This is not a slippery slope at all.

It's not the people that are demonizing that are the problem, it's the people believe it, which is actually surprisingly large.

Yes, welcome to America, where you only true right is your freedom to be stupid. Everything else is just an ideal.

[Patchinko]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

The willingness of a people to give up their rights in favor of security, imagined or not, is a typical step on the path towards dictatorship.

The number of people in this very thread willing to apparently give up their rights is not surprising. There is a current belief that rights are not paramount, but security is. Little do people have the foresight to realize that we have the rights we do because they amount to a greater security internally.

Basically, am I more afraid of a terrorist bombing me or of the police across the street tasering me for looking at them the wrong way? Certainly, at this time, it is the latter. A taser may not kill me, but in a country of three hundred million people and ten million square kilometers, the chance of a single incendiary bomb going off somewhere is unlikely to kill me as well, probably even less so.

I value my rights as a facet of my security. I am not secure when I feel threatened by my own country's government and police force. I am not more secure as a result of my rights being trampled on.

The girl this article is talking about was foolish for doing what she did. However, that ought not give the government the right to trample on her rights. Investigate her, by all means, but convict her of "collecting information, without reasonable excuse, of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism"? Unless they're putting away everyone who's downloaded a schematic of a pipe bomb or videos of a beheading, and they're not, that's simply not a crime. We don't need a "reasonable excuse" beyond curiosity for looking up information.

[DakAttack]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

If you think this is about rights, I can introduce you to Rusty Shackleford for a nice conversation on how evil every government everywhere in the world is, and how they all want to do bad things to you all the time.

Quick, put on your tinfoil hats, they're scanning our brains.

[Feba]

Re: Sorry Britain. No free speach for you.

If in either situation the possibility of a problem arises, when would be the best time to do something about it?

So you see no difference between human thought and a space heater. I feel sorry for you, because the only people that can possibly consider analogies like that correct are the people that it does apply to.

If you think this is about rights,

If you think that security is more important than rights, then you deserve neither.