Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

[Rain_Blade]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22007049/?GT1=10547

Ok so um...I saw this news a few days ago, but thought it wouldn't continue since it was a little ridiculous...but today I still see it going on. A woman is being charged for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."


Short part from the link:

KHARTOUM, Sudan - A British teacher has been charged with inciting hatred, insulting religion and showing contempt of religious beliefs after her class named a teddy bear Muhammad, state media said on Wednesday.

[Raydeus]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Yeah I read about that on CNN some time ago.

Overeacting is an understatement, but, the same could happen if some foreign company would, say name a toy airplane "Tower Slayer" in the US. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would want someone's head for that.

People can be very sensitive about certain topics, and even though this was done in a very innocent way I can see how a very religious court could find this aggraviating.

Can't really judge other cultures by one's values because what's accepted in one culture can be a mortal sin in another, just gotta hope they can appeal so the teacher doesn't get lashed or has to spend too much time in jail if found guilty.

[Malevolent]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

I think thats really ridiculous. This reminds me of the report about some drum line members being suspended because someone said "Noose" and some black kid heard it and was offended. How "noose" came up was they were looking for a secure knot to tie the drums together in the traier so they wouldn't bump around...but a student on the drum line (who's a eagle scout) said that he could tie it but wouldn't because its wrong and he could get in trouble. Also the black kid who felt offended was found later using the N word around school caught on tape but nothing was done about it when a petition with over 700 sigs was brought to the principle.

Ya know nothing was said when saddam was hung... he had a BLACK hood over his head he was hung with a NOOSE....yet no one had a prblem with it. A halloween display in WI was made to be taken down on police order because there was a man being hung on a NOOSE with a BLACK hood over his head...but a black person thought it was offensive and threatened the family with racial hate crimes. Whats funny is that part of the halloween display has been there for over 7 years and the display itself has won display awards over the years...and no one had a problem with it then...why is now any different?

[Jarre]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

The fact is SHE did not name the Teddy bear Mohammed, the kids did, and she didn't tell them it was wrong to do that, because Muslim kids calling a Teddy bear Mohamed whats wrong with that?

The worst part of it was this comment from the suan Muslim clerics. and I quote (from the bbc news article on it) "Sudan's top clerics have called for the full measure of the law to be used against Mrs Gibbons and labelled her actions part of a Western plot against Islam." Yet Britains muslim clerics have condemed the Sudan trial as a farce and is only a tool by extreemists to cause yet another difficulty between islam and the western world.

[Satori]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

It just shows how uneducated and primative they are

Apparently she's to recieve 40 lashes for her "crime"
Their resoning behind it is apparently, By creating an image of Muhammad is wrong because of fear they will worship that image, seriously these cavemen need dragging from the past.

They should be glad the children look up to their idea of muhammad and chose to use the name. This case has been going on for some time and we've heard lots about it here in the uk.
The children had to take the teddy home then write about what they did with Muhammed over the weekend, None of the parents were offended it only took one colleague to report her to start this shit storm off.

Seems to me the muslim couldnt hack being turned down by a white chick.

Seriously they should focus on creating fire then the wheel and maybe then focus on constructing some form of legal system.
Maybe if we collect enough chickens we can pay her bail

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Thing is Raydeus, this would be like a group of kids naming a bear Joseph, not a toy company mocking thousands of deaths. The name might have biblical roots, but it's also not an uncommon name.

[Caspian]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Thing is Raydeus, this would be like a group of kids naming a bear Joseph, not a toy company mocking thousands of deaths. The name might have biblical roots, but it's also not an uncommon name.

More than uncommon, from what I've been reading, its actually quite common. Like naming a teddy bear Mary or Paul. There really is no reason for it, other than to get their populace in another hype over how the West is out to get them.
Personally, I really get the impression that the governments so don't want to be associated with the West, that they just start pulling things out of their asses just to be different. You convince your people that their culture is in danger so they don't get pissed at you.

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

yes, actually, Mary is probably a far better example than Joseph.

[Raydeus]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

A company or a foreign teacher who brought the airplane toy for the kids to name would recieve the same treatment in the US if enough media coverage was involved, it happens all the time.

And I don't agree with it either (I think it's beyond criminal retarded, the same way the inquisition and witch hunts and the people who supported them were), but it's their laws and their country, and people outside has to respect that either they like it or not.

She commited a crime and was charged for it, it isn't any different from that student who got into jail for a few years for recieving an illegal way of sex from a girl even though they were both minors and it was consensual.

Stupid laws and people who execute them are everywhere in this world.

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Raydeus, it's an entirely different situation. First of all, there is no malice or insult in naming the bear Muhammed, there clearly is in naming a toy jet "Tower Slayer".

Secondly, the bear was named BY THE CHILDREN, not the teacher or some corporate big wig.

Thirdly, if the kids named a plane Tower Slayer, of course it would be unreasonable for a teacher to approve it. But there is nothing malicious about a common name for a stuffed animal, compared to an insulting title for something that normally wouldn't be named.

Fourth, you do not have to respect unreasonable laws, the people that make them, the courts that enforce them. But this is not even a matter of unreasonable laws, it is a matter of sensationalism. You can say what you want about 'their culture', but the fact is that any reasonable person (including many Muslims, both there and elsewhere) finds this an insane case of butthurt.

Fifth, you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing a teacher that allowed children in their class to name a bear with a common name to people that did something they likely knew was illegal.

Sixth, even if they did not know it was legal, there are many people that agree things like that are insane, and those laws are being changed. Many of those cases have been thrown out. Ever heard of Romeo and Juliet laws? They're becoming more and more common.

This is a matter of purely being unreasonably butthurt over something that means absolutely nothing. There is absolutely no defense for this.

[Raydeus]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

See, that's exactly my point here.

To you, because of the way you were raised, the country you grew up, the events you have witnessed there's no way you would accept both things as being the same kind of offense.

But guess what, the same confidence you have in your values and beliefs is the same confidence they have in theirs. This isn't about being right or wrong, is about perspective and cultural differences.

First - The same way naming a Teddy bear with a religious name can be considered harmless, is the same way someone who wasn't from the US could actually consider it ironic and kinda funny naming a toy airplane that. In both cases ignorance and lack of sensibility for other cultures can cause problems.

Second - A teacher is responsible for what the kids end up doing, he/she is the grown up here. And just because the children came up with the name isn't enough excuse if the teacher doesn't have enough common sense/knowledge about the culture to see it can be interpreted as something wrong in the eyes of these stupid laws.

Third - Malicious is a very subjective term when it comes to this kind of situations, it all depends on your audience and how they percieve it. In both cases things can go very wrong or very harmless depending on your luck.

Fourth - That is true, and it would be good if the law was changed or at least made the criteria more understanding because of this situation, the same way the law was changed about that sex case.

But changes don't happen from one day to the other, and it is likely that teacher will have to serve the time or recieve the physical punishment before the law changes (if it even does), the same way that poor teenager had to spend so much time in prison before anything changed.

Fifth - This is also very subjective and it all depends on your audience. In the sex case no one really knew it was illegal (the act itself) till the teenager got arrested. Which is why people got so shocked when it wasn't treated as simply misdemeanor for underaged sex.

Sixth - Same as fourth


And yep most cases like this are about unreasonable laws made by unreasonable people, and of course they should be changed or removed. It's incredibly stupid, but they are still laws, and people will have to do what it has to be done if they want things to change for the better.

[Jarre]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

The fact is raydeous its the extreemist comments made by the Sudan clerics quoted in my first post which i repeat..

"Sudan's top clerics have called for the full measure of the law to be used against Mrs Gibbons and labelled her actions part of a Western plot against Islam."

that is causing the concern. The British muslim council has hit back at the Sudan clerics saying its a farce and that THEY beleive it is not an insult, in fact on radio4 this morning one of teh top Uk clerics was being intereviewed and he was quite chuffed the children named the teddy bear Mohammed after their religous profet as it would remind them of their religeon when they take it home.

Its something else that has caused this case to blow up. In these religeons many people plot to try and out people of different religous backgrounds working in the same place as hem. in third world countries where religon is veryheavy in the culture with many extreemisist the situation is worse.

[Satori]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Its such a joke. There is a boy in the class called Muhammad and the bear got called it because he is one of the most popular.

I dont see his parents being whipped, locked up, stoned or walking hot coals!

Its purely because she is white, end of

this was mentioned on BBC news 24 this morning.

I feel sorry for her, Thats the thanks she gets for trying to educate a load of primative caveman racist's children.

[Ziero]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

See, that's exactly my point here.
To you, because of the way you were raised, the country you grew up, the events you have witnessed there's no way you would accept both things as being the same kind of offense.
But guess what, the same confidence you have in your values and beliefs is the same confidence they have in theirs. This isn't about being right or wrong, is about perspective and cultural differences.
First - The same way naming a Teddy bear with a religious name can be considered harmless, is the same way someone who wasn't from the US could actually consider it ironic and kinda funny naming a toy airplane that. In both cases ignorance and lack of sensibility for other cultures can cause problems.
Second - A teacher is responsible for what the kids end up doing, he/she is the grown up here. And just because the children came up with the name isn't enough excuse if the teacher doesn't have enough common sense/knowledge about the culture to see it can be interpreted as something wrong in the eyes of these stupid laws.
Third - Malicious is a very subjective term when it comes to this kind of situations, it all depends on your audience and how they percieve it. In both cases things can go very wrong or very harmless depending on your luck.
Fourth - That is true, and it would be good if the law was changed or at least made the criteria more understanding because of this situation, the same way the law was changed about that sex case.
But changes don't happen from one day to the other, and it is likely that teacher will have to serve the time or recieve the physical punishment before the law changes (if it even does), the same way that poor teenager had to spend so much time in prison before anything changed.
Fifth - This is also very subjective and it all depends on your audience. In the sex case no one really knew it was illegal (the act itself) till the teenager got arrested. Which is why people got so shocked when it wasn't treated as simply misdemeanor for underaged sex.
Sixth - Same as fourth
And yep most cases like this are about unreasonable laws made by unreasonable people, and of course they should be changed or removed. It's incredibly stupid, but they are still laws, and people will have to do what it has to be done if they want things to change for the better.

I was gonna post this whole big thing about how everything you said was wrong, but I felt I could better convey that point with one simple statement.

There was more malice, hatred, and showing contempt of race and religion involved when they arrestet that women then there ever was when that woman let those kids name something they would hold dear a common muslim name. This isn't about western 'ignorance' or different values, this is about a government condoning hate.

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

To you, because of the way you were raised, the country you grew up, the events you have witnessed there's no way you would accept both things as being the same kind of offense.

No, this is appalling because it's incredibly stupid overreacting to something that, even if it were malicious, does not matter.

But guess what, the same confidence you have in your values and beliefs is the same confidence they have in theirs. This isn't about being right or wrong, is about perspective and cultural differences.

This is not about cultural differences, Raydeus. This is about people who need an excuse to harm someone. There are plenty of cultural differences out there, and I understand that. You are defending rampant idiocy and hatred because you do not understand the culture, not because this is something the culture actually finds offensive.

First - The same way naming a Teddy bear with a religious name can be considered harmless, is the same way someone who wasn't from the US could actually consider it ironic and kinda funny naming a toy airplane that. In both cases ignorance and lack of sensibility for other cultures can cause problems.

Once again, there is a very large difference between naming something WITH A COMMON NAME and naming something AFTER AN EVENT THAT TOOK THOUSANDS OF LIVES. Again, this is like STUDENTS in the states naming something "Mary" or "Joe", not like a teacher naming a toy after something horrible. The bear was named BY THE CHILDREN, not the teacher, and it was named WITH A COMMON NAME. The bear was not named offensively, by the students OR the teacher.

Second - A teacher is responsible for what the kids end up doing, he/she is the grown up here. And just because the children came up with the name isn't enough excuse if the teacher doesn't have enough common sense/knowledge about the culture to see it can be interpreted as something wrong in the eyes of these stupid laws.

Again, it is a COMMON NAME. They gave the bear a name. They did not worship it, they did not idolize it, and they did not do it out of insult. Already explained the rest above.

Third - Malicious is a very subjective term when it comes to this kind of situations, it all depends on your audience and how they percieve it. In both cases things can go very wrong or very harmless depending on your luck.

Again, giving something A NAME which is also A VERY COMMON NAME is not possibly malicious, any more than the millions of parents who have named their children the same.

Raydeus, you are defending these actions out of "cultural sensitivity". Let me assure you that has nothing to do with the case. This is unreasonable. This is giving people something to hate. This is not something that is actually offensive, this is not something that is a crime. This was not an insult to religion. This was naming a fucking toy with a name that is common. It has nothing to do with any prophet.