Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

[Raydeus]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

The fact is raydeous its the extreemist comments made by the Sudan clerics quoted in my first post which i repeat.. that is causing the concern. The British muslim council has hit back at the Sudan clerics saying its a farce and that THEY beleive it is not an insult, in fact on radio4 this morning one of teh top Uk clerics was being intereviewed and he was quite chuffed the children named the teddy bear Mohammed after their religous profet as it would remind them of their religeon when they take it home.

Its something else that has caused this case to blow up. In these religeons many people plot to try and out people of different religous backgrounds working in the same place as hem. in third world countries where religon is veryheavy in the culture with many extreemisist the situation is worse.

I was gonna post this whole big thing about how everything you said was wrong, but I felt I could better convey that point with one simple statement.

There was more malice, hatred, and showing contempt of race and religion involved when they arrestet that women then there ever was when that woman let those kids name something they would hold dear a common muslim name. This isn't about western 'ignorance' or different values, this is about a government condoning hate.

Raydeus, you are defending these actions out of "cultural sensitivity". Let me assure you that has nothing to do with the case. This is unreasonable. This is giving people something to hate. This is not something that is actually offensive, this is not something that is a crime. This was not an insult to religion. This was naming a fucking toy with a name that is common. It has nothing to do with any prophet.

I'm not in any way trying to defend their actions, I also disagree with what's going on.

But it only takes 1 person in power to apply these stupid laws and ruin lives in the process. It doesn't really matter if there's a political or a racist motivation behind it, they are still laws and every country has the right to apply them.

Is the same as that illegal inmigrant who got all of his money stolen by custom agents when he was trying to get out of the US, simply because he didn't know he had to file a form about it.

Where's the international indignation about that? This woman will only be in jail for a few months if she is found guilty (which is very unlikely anyway), but that guy lost the money he earned in more than 10 years of hard work.

But anyway, my point here is that other countries aren't exempt from doing the same things. So acting all high and mighty about it as if no wrongs have ever been commited in one's country isn't a very healthy approach to this kinda situation.

I feel sorry for her, Thats the thanks she gets for trying to educate a load of primative caveman racist's children.

See this is an example of the kind of thinking that causes this kind of issues, you don't even know who these children's parents are but you are calling all of them them caveman racists just out of anger.

I'm sorry but I've seen the same kind of caveman racist behavior (and worse) in many citizens from other countries that come to visit this place.

What's happening to this woman is sad and unfair, but you can't go around throwing insults about a whole country/culture because of it. Unless you want other people to do the same about you and your country that is.

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

There's a large difference between being an illegal alien and trying to smuggle out thousands or millions of dollars and having it seized by customs and going to a country to TEACH CHILDREN and being punished BECAUSE THE CHILDREN THEMSELVES decided to give something in your classroom A PERFECTLY INNOCENT NAME.

They are not comparable, Raydeus. Stop trying to compare them. They do not come close.

[Raydeus]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

They are, it's all about stupid laws and people who applies them, maybe to you they aren't the same, but for people outside your country they are.

But I guess it's pointless trying to explain that so I'll just drop it.

[Feba]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Raydeus, this isn't about stupid laws.

This is about people abusing the law to spread hatred. Nothing more.

There are plenty of stupid, dumb, silly, outrageous and such laws out there. This is not a case of that. There are plenty of cultural differences. This is not a case of that.

Again, you are comparing apples to oranges.

[Ziero]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

They are, it's all about stupid laws and people who applies them, maybe to you they aren't the same, but for people outside your country they are.
But I guess it's pointless trying to explain that so I'll just drop it.

....there IS NO LAW involved. They are stretching *their own* laws in an effort to turn this into something it's not. The people involved, *not the entire culture, race or religion*, are doing this to spread fear and hatred within their own community and make everyone else look evil. Had this been a muslim teacher I guarentee they would not have been arrested. OTHER members of that culture decry this as being both morally and legally wrong.

They arrested this lady on trumped up charges fueled by nothing more then a desire to make outsiders look evil and hateful. She didn't *break* any laws, and that is why this situation is such a big deal. If she did, I assure you people would not be showing her as much sympathy.

Like when those kids got caught spraypainting graffiti in Singapore, and were subsequently caned for it. They broke the law, and were punished in accordance to the culture they broke the law in. As such they deserved what they got. This lady on the other hand *did not* break any laws.

[DakAttack]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

We shoud all change our titles to Muhammed in protest.

[Caspian]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

She was found guilty, btw.

[Vyuru]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

She was found guilty, btw.

Found guilty on most likely trumped up charges in a most likely staged court? Not surprising sadly.

Satori, I have to second Raydeus's comment. Slandering the people by calling them ignorant backwards cavemen just spreads the hate around, and is of no use. I'd also like to point out that such talk merely brings us down to the level of the people who charged this poor woman, and surely we are better than that aren't we?

This was naming a fucking toy with a name that is common. It has nothing to do with any prophet.

While the name IS common, I was under the impression the children named the toy specifically after the prophet Muhammed. So I would view this as having something to do with some prophet at least.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

An individual is not solely represented by the country or government that represents them. To claim that one can not express outrage at another country's actions simply because they belong to a country guilty of the same indiscretions is ridiculous. We do not all share the same opinions, condone the same acts and find offense in the general policies and events within our societies.

Also just because something is written as a law does not mean the notion of going against it is heretical or inherently wrong. There are bad laws and to express disgust in such is not something that should just be pushed under a rug and suppressed.

[Ziero]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Found guilty on most likely trumped up charges in a most likely staged court? Not surprising sadly.
Satori, I have to second Raydeus's comment. Slandering the people by calling them ignorant backwards cavemen just spreads the hate around, and is of no use. I'd also like to point out that such talk merely brings us down to the level of the people who charged this poor woman, and surely we are better than that aren't we?
While the name IS common, I was under the impression the children named the toy specifically after the prophet Muhammed. So I would view this as having something to do with some prophet at least.

Agreed on the first part, but I thought it was stated that the bear was named after the most popular kid in class...who was named Muhammed.

[Jonastb]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

While the name IS common, I was under the impression the children named the toy specifically after the prophet Muhammed. So I would view this as having something to do with some prophet at least.

So every Hispanic child's Mother and Father who named their son "Jesus" should be arrested and charged with a crime. No?

That is as ridiculous as charging this woman with a crime.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

When it comes to naming after the prophet it really has to do with how radical the sects of Islam are in that area. Extremely conservative branches view it pretty badly, along the lines of idol worship or dragging the name through the mud. It seems to vary region by region. (gf is Islamic, we talk about this stuff a lot). By the way the clerics slanted it though, it should be obvious to anyone though that it is not about the bear being named anything. It being names Muhammad is just a decoy for an act of defiance to the "west" and a theatrical display.

Honestly I don't see what all the hub-bub is about. It seems like it wasn't that harsh, or even that politically motivated, rather the quoted responses were. There was obviously the presence and representation of extremism in the societies response, but in a very minute way. I was completely against Raydeus and you know....... while still straying extremely from his opinions, I think you guys are seeing a little too much in this.

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

She was found guilty, btw.

Yeah I just saw today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22007049/?GT1=10547

They were gonna give her 40 lashes (meaning whips), but they decided to avoid it.

Parts from the link:

Gibbons, 54, was arrested Sunday after complaints to the Education Ministry that she had insulted the prophet Muhammad, the most revered figure in Islam, by applying his name to a teddy bear.

“The judge found Gillian Gibbons guilty and sentenced her to 15 days jail and deportation,” said Ali Mohammed Hajab, a member of her defense team.

Robert Boulos, director of the Unity High School where Gibbons taught, noted that since she had already spent five days in prison, she would have to serve only 10 more.

“It’s a very fair verdict, she could have had six months and lashes and a fine, and she only got 15 days and deportation,” Boulos said. He added that the verdict would not be appealed.

[Vyuru]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

So every Hispanic child's Mother and Father who named their son "Jesus" should be arrested and charged with a crime. No?

That is as ridiculous as charging this woman with a crime.

Where in the qoute you used did I say that? Kindly do not put words into my mouth, especially something so vile and filthy as stupid discrimination.

but I thought it was stated that the bear was named after the most popular kid in class...who was named Muhammed.

I'm not entirely sure, I've seen some places say it was named after the prophet and some who have said it was named after the popular kid in the class. I heard about this yesterday and today is the first I've heard about the bear being named after the popular kid in the class, so I dunno.

[Jonastb]

Re: Charged for naming a Teddy Bear "Muhammad"

Where in the qoute you used did I say that? Kindly do not put words into my mouth, especially something so vile and filthy as stupid discrimination.

No where in my post did I say you said it, I was using your post for reference about naming anything after a prophet is bad. That was the ridiculous part.