Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

[Feba]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

The explain why in the last week their have been 4 serious shootings at eduational establishments? If guns wern't as easy to get hold of in the US, these wouldn't have happened. The 4th of course being yesterday with 5 killed, try saying that owning guns is fine to the deads parents who seemed to be incocent victims.

Because some people are just freaking crazy. There's nothing that can be done about it. They'll always find some way to lash out.

Might it be less severe if guns were outlawed? Maybe. Would there still have been attacks, and deaths? Almost surely.

In the Uk 75% of violent crime is caused by drink or drugs, a proven statistic from evidence given in courts.

Sounds to me more like a way of passing the blame onto something else rather than some horrible cause.

Still, even if that figure is true, are you going to outlaw alcohol to stop it? Because I promise you that prohibition wouldn't take out 75% of your crime.

[Jarre]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

You are close Feba, they are pushing a bill through parliment to give police more powers to confiscate alacahol from people on the streets and increase more alachol free zones in cities, as well as targetting binge drinking, one though is to icnrease the price imensly of alcahol like they did in Norway. It is a real concern as not only is the violence aspect related to drink, but also the strain on the hospitals.

As for the drugs, police are really cracking down on it and this last week they busted a £100m drugs gang in london and surrounding area, the biggest in the country and they are goign to up the class of canabis from class C to Class B (class B where you can be sent to prison for possession if you have more than 2 teenths on you and if you supply you face a miimum of 5 years in chataux deef.

Its not just guns feba that need to be outlawaed its your knife and sword rules as well. here in teh uk it is illegal to own any knife (thats not a kitchen one) with a blade longer than 2 inches and wider than half an inch. Swords are illegal now to under new laws implimented 2 ears ago after a spate of samari sword attacks. After 2 years, knife realated crime is down 60% so it does work!

[Mhurron]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Jarre - Prohibition. Look it up. These laws do nothing.

[Feba]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Jarre: Alright. If you want to live in a nanny state that outlaws anything that might cause harm to it's citizens, that's your choice. A lack of freedom more often brings more violence than it does less.

Some of us, however, are sane enough to realize that you need to handle the violence, not what it is inflicted with.

[Callisto]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Because some people are just freaking crazy. There's nothing that can be done about it. They'll always find some way to lash out.

Might it be less severe if guns were outlawed? Maybe. Would there still have been attacks, and deaths? Almost surely.

That. If there were no guns in the US, yesterday's headlines would've read "5 Stabbed to Death at NIU". If guns and knives were outlawed, it would read "5 Beaten to Death at NIU".

Truth is, there's no such thing as preventing murder or assault. If you really want to kill somebody, there isn't anything in place to stop you aside from fear of consequences. That combined with just plain sense and self-restraint keeps the murder rate relatively low, but when whatever breaks inside a person's brain to make them not care anymore finally goes, you aren't going to keep them from killing anyone, we just place ourselves in too vulnerable of a position by being social creatures.

So either we can live every day on lockdown and never come into contact with other people and outlaw everything that's evil, or we can live like normal, non-jackass people, and accept the fact that sometimes you're just as likely to die walking down the street or going to the grocery store as you are in a warzone. We're people, people die. It happens to all of us eventually.

[Jarre]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

what your saying is you have a right to own a gun to defend yourself against another who owns one?

Unfortunately that brings a problem. Say a kid in the street has a replica, cannot fire a bullet mearly goes bang. Now replicas are good these days. Say he playfully points a gun at you or a family member, you see a threat grab your gun and bang. (this is based off a true incident) Kid is dead, police arrive, kid is declared dead, gun found to be just a toy replica. Now you have shot someone dead, you made a decission, we have one less kid in the world. The guy quoshed his murder conviction because your laws state you have a right to bare arms and therefore he was deemed to be protecting his family.

It is rare to even see a replica gun here in teh uk (they are illegal) therefore this situation would not happen here, if someone did have a replica gun, there would be no gun to grab to shoot them and the police would be fast to respond. You are too into your rights to own a gun that you forget that most people in the US who own a gun have not had proper training to deal with any incident like the police do, they just think it will solve everything. It doesn't.

wioth all these events happening in the US, your high gun crime. the fact people live in fear and wish to carry arms, that thinking is wrong. Yes you can be over legislated, but here in teh Uk, these laws have made this country much more safer than yours and before you compare our own vilent crimes indexs, the US has a very high rate as well on top of all teh gun related violence.
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That. If there were no guns in the US, yesterday's headlines would've read "5 Stabbed to Death at NIU". If guns and knives were outlawed, it would read "5 Beaten to Death at NIU".

A classroom of people can;t stop a guy being shot, they may not be able to prevent someone being knifed, but they would stand a good chance of overwhelming someone jsut swinging their fists, i jsut don;t get your argument.

[Feba]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

what your saying is you have a right to own a gun to defend yourself against another who owns one?

No. What we're saying is that responding to death by outlawing whatever caused it is irrational, immature, and just plain stupid.

Your country is no safer. If a madman breaks into your house, he can stab you with a kitchen knife just as easily as a katana, just as easily as he could shoot you.

Placing the blame on the items used to inflict violence rather than the person doing it should be a huge blinking light of a broken society.

[Callisto]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

If he didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't have charged a classroom. He probably would have picked a few off 1 by 1 at a different time, but people would still be just as dead...that said, one of the 9/11 planes was hijacked by a guy with a knife. Noone in a large group of people stood up to stop him.

And many, many more people die in auto accidents than in shootings every day, and their families are just as hurt by their losses. Should we outlaw cars as well?

Unfortunately that brings a problem. Say a kid in the street has a replica, cannot fire a bullet mearly goes bang. Now replicas are good these days. Say he playfully points a gun at you or a family member, you see a threat grab your gun and bang. (this is based off a true incident) Kid is dead, police arrive, kid is declared dead, gun found to be just a toy replica. Now you have shot someone dead, you made a decission, we have one less kid in the world. The guy quoshed his murder conviction because your laws state you have a right to bare arms and therefore he was deemed to be protecting his family.

And yeah, these are rare cases, and it's a shame when it happens...but as they saw, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Drugs are illegal here, it doesn't make them rare to find. Guns will still be there, except if they're outlawed the honest people cannot get them, only the criminals, and when the time comes that it's not a kid with a replica but a criminal with a gun pointed at your family, I'd rather have the option to pull my own out. That's how we wrote our constitution, it's a right we fought for, and for better or for worse it's ours.

Side Rant: This whole 'B-b-but the children!' crap everyone always drags into these arguments for emphasis bores the crap out of me. Who cares? What makes a child's life more important than that of any other person? Is my life less valuable just because I've aged past 13?

[Mhurron]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

A - You have a right to own a gun. Period. It can be for hunting, protection, a collection, whatever. The owning of most types it is not illegal, what you do with it may or may not be.

B - No matter how you try, you can't legislate against stupid.

C - Most gun offenses are illegal weapons.

he fact people live in fear

The only people who live in fear are people like you who over react.

It is rare to even see a replica gun here in teh uk (they are illegal) therefore this situation would not happen here

No, police there just shoot you on Train platforms because you look brown. Same shit, different country.

A classroom of people can;t stop a guy being shot, they may not be able to prevent someone being knifed

By this logic stabbings should not occur and all murder should be a result of 'unstoppable' weapons. If they can stop a knife attack they can stop a gun attack. The type of weapon here is not the problem, it's the reaction of people. Incidentally, people react the same to both situations, and are pretty useless.

these laws have made this country much more safer than yours

Guess again.
This time, read:
Why violent crime has doubled in a decade - Telegraph

Violent Crime is UP despite the attempt to legislate everything unsafe out of existence. Higher is not safer.

Once again, if these things are so bad, why doesn't Canada have more problems?

Hint: The weapon doesn't cause the crime

[Feba]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Also, referring to the classroom-shooter scenario, do you really think one kid with a gun could do much against an entire class beating him up? People's response to a weapon is still going to be to get away and take cover, not charge at them, whether it's a knife or a gun. Heck, look at plane hijackings, a handful of people with utility knives and razor blades can keep a commercial jet full of dozens of people in fear, people that aren't going to try fighting back.

[Callisto]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Once again, if these things are so bad, why doesn't Canada have more problems?

Maybe they never released Grand Theft Auto there? I'm pretty sure that's what's causing all the crime everywhere else, I saw it on TV.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Maybe they never released Grand Theft Auto there? I'm pretty sure that's what's causing all the crime everywhere else, I saw it on TV.

I thanked this for the obvious sarcasm.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

Maybe they never released Grand Theft Auto there? I'm pretty sure that's what's causing all the crime everywhere else, I saw it on TV.

That and the pixleated nudity in the Sims, I'd wager.

[Evion]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

[Caspian]

Re: Official bored at work / just shooting the shit / no rails to derail thread

You're all wrong, Q*bert and his filthy language have corrupted us all.

I think its just too cold in Canada to do anything.
And Feba's right (that feels so weird to say), when it comes to people's fight or flight response, the vast majority of people choose flight.