Respect for the Dead

[Aeni]

Re: Respect for the Dead

And I did nothing of the sort. I'm just saying, expecting someone to stay alive for you is far more selfish than killing yourself.

Sorry, that line you quoted wasn't directed at you personally (I should've entered in more lines to separate that from the line above which I had directed to you)

>_<

[WovenDarkness]

Re: Respect for the Dead

As for respecting him in death, I respect him, but it doesn't change the fact I hate him. I despise that he ended his life selfishly, stealing himself away from all those that cared about him and not valuing them or himself.

Because these can be very sensitive subjects, I'll preface my next comments/questions with this: I say these things in an inquisitive and nonjudgemental fashion.


I'm curious, have you ever dealt w/ serious depression personnally? I have to wonder if you would feel the same(and I don't know that you haven't...)hate if you've stood on the other side of the bridge.....

I had a friend that took a long journey. He never came back. One day, I found myself on the same long, desolate road. How I got there is of no consequense, as I don't remember...but I do remember the road....it's curves, hills, and valleys, and it's broken pavement and faded lines. I remember it well. I remember thinking about him as I walked....and about he never came back. Today, I understand how one can want to take their own life. Greedy? Possibly. The only thing that I feel comfortable saying about it is that those that have been/are there are not in their "right"(if you will) mind.

I wonder if "hate" and "anger" are good ways to remember a friend.....


I apologize in advance if I have offended you or anyone else.

[Murphie]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I kind of see where BBQ is coming from on that though. A couple of years ago, my best friend's cousin (his family is essentially my family, since my family sucks - or at least, they treat me as a member of the family) committed suicide. Randomly. I mean, he was depressed, but no one really knows why. He had a great life. He was treated like a prince by his parents, and had no unwanted responsibilities. He could do whatever he chose, and no one had anything negative to say about it. (I mean, secretly I thought it was kind of ridiculous the things he got away with, but I wasn't his parents).

Not that I'm sure he didn't feel he had reasons for doing it, but I'm not sure that those reasons were very well thought out (or coming from a healthy mental place).

Anyway, when he committed suicide, we were all of course shocked and sad, but those emotions all had a healthy layer of anger right underneath them. No one said anything unpleasant at the funeral, or in the presence of his parents, but afterwards, there was often, in semi-private, a lot of commentary along the lines of what a selfish thing it was to do this so randomly, and all because he didn't feel appreciated (that's what his note said). I'll never forget how upset his mother and father were, and how lost his brother was, and kind of still is. Not to mention all of his cousins, and aunts and uncles who were equally upset. It really pisses me off.

[Taskmage]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Speaking as someone who deals with depression, please don't judge them too harshly. Suicide is not something to respect or even necessarily to take pity on, but not in my opinion something one should be looked down on for either. When I'm depressed, it is not the rational part of my brain that's in control. Or, even if I can force rational thoughts into my head, they just don't stick or work. It's like logic off a troll's back. I recognize now that 90% of the time my depressive fits have no rational basis, and I can point that out to myself and think of reasons I really should be happy, but even if I accept that, that doesn't stop me from being unbearably, immobilizingly sad.

Depression is like a predator pacing in the back of your mind. If someone has a problem with it, at least of my particular breed of it, and kills themselves, it's less that they made a selfish or cowardly decision but more that they fell victim to a dark part of themselves they probably in better mind would've wished they didn't have.

[Murphie]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I see your point, Taskmage. In this particular instance, the guy hadn't been diagnosed as depressed, but that doesn't mean that he might not have been. He probably was.

That said, everyone deals with these things in different ways. I don't feel any shame at being angry at the action, while still mourning the loss of the person responsible for it. Much the same way I would be upset about an accident that took the life of a friend or family member. It wasn't their fault, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

Or something.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I wonder if "hate" and "anger" are good ways to remember a friend.....

We're raised from an early age to believe that hatred and anger are bad or sinful things. Its true that when handled to a negative extreme, these can be bad and unhealthy, even destructive emotions.

But they're also constructive, they build resolve, they help us know right from wrong.

I was an addict for a time and I came to realize that my addiction was no better than commiting suicide. I'd lie to my family to pay my bills, all so I could just run home and shut myself in 24/7 to play Everquest. I didn't just play my character, my character was my life for a time. Then I saw a example of addiction greater than my own and it shook me back to reality.

The short of it is that I had hit endgame and entered a guild with a couple I knew. I watched this guild quickly tear thier loving relationship apart and it scared me. The man was totally pushed out of his woman's life over a game. I looked at this, all the lies I told my family and others and felt like shit. I hated myself, I realized I was no better than my friend. I was just this weak person hiding away from the world he felt rejected him.

I say "hate" "myself" or "my friend" but I've really just come to hate that common weakness. I can't abide by it, I cant tolerate it and nobody should. I hate what my friend became, not who he was.

I've also come to learn in recent months I grew up with an anxiety disorder. What I experience is a little different from what Taskmage described. I'd say I get like he does maybe 1% of the time when things aren't under control. But I no that sense of dread, it comes on to you and has no meaning.

But my anxiety has various radical ways manifesting itself. I can't honestly tell you what emotional extreme I would land on if I didn't take my meds tonight. But at the very least, even when depressed, that anger shows up if I start feeling sorry for myself and it will shake me.

[WovenDarkness]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Omgwtfbbqkitten:

I have to admit, when you said "hate" in your previous post, I wasn't sure quite what you meant....though I thought I knew. (Yeah, I wasn't correct, lol) Thanks for the clarification.

I wasn't sure if you could relate to anxiety and/or depression. While I could see in Taskmages post that he could, (aside from admitting it) yours wasn't as plainly evident. As was previously stated, everybody does deal w/ life differently. No harm, no foul there.....though I wouldn't be judging, as I'm not capable. I have a hard enough time dealing w/ my own crap. :lol: I suppose that your post sort of struck a bit close to home for me. I've had to deal w/ someone recently that really doesn't have a clue as to what serious depression is....and unfortunately, he refuses to accept what has been proven, namely that anxiety and depression is a very real and a very serious thing.

....anyway, aside from rambling on, what I've found interesting was that several people didn't have a problem admitting that they were human in this thread. At least I know I'm not the only one, lol.

Peace and "Kudos".


~WD