Respect for the Dead

[Rain_Blade]

I've been thinking about this for some time and want to get other people
s thoughts on this topic. There are times when someone or even yourself may tend to make fun of or tease someone rather it be in front of them or behind their back. The more they/you find something amusing about them, the more you talk and laugh about them. Although, when they are deceased, sometimes it's like you feel that you HAVE to change the way you feel and pity them, apologize, and feel ba for what you've done. So, I'll give another example. Let's say a person really dislikes (not hate, but just really dislike) someone and one day they die. Then, he/she start to feel bad for how he/she treated the person who died.

It's almost like feeling you really SHOULD respect the dead, but some people just do it because you know...they're no longer here and should be talked about with kind words. My question is what's your thoughts about treating someone badly before they die but pity and feel sorry for themsleves after they die (moreover, continously doing this)? Do you happen to feel what I've described sometimes?

[DakAttack]

Re: Respect for the Dead

You feel sorrow for somebody after they've died if you feel as if you wasted your time with them, or if you wish things had ended differently, or never had a chance to say goodbye.

You pity them if they left behind a wife and children, or they just won the lottery.

If you're bad mouthing them before they're dead because it's the funny thing to do then it's ok to feel sorrow or pity. It was just the funny thing to do at the time, no harm meant.

If it's how you really felt, it's how you really felt. But there's no saying the way you feel about some one can't change.

Death itself isn't a big deal for me.

[711rocks]

Re: Respect for the Dead

This kid in the grade above me shot himself and everyone at school was talking about how great he was yet the really all called him weird and pushed him in the halls and this is a run on scentence.
That wasn't bs it did happen, and people turned all fake about it.
Is that what you're asking?
=/

[Mhurron]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Why should I have respect for the dead? They're dead, what do they care. If I didn't know them they're no different then anyone else I don't know and I didn't care or respect them when they were alive. If I did know them, what I thought of them isn't going to be changed because they're no longer alive. If I didn't care or respect them when they're alive, their corpse can expect the same treatment.

If I dislike someone, there's a reason for it, and it's not going to change just because they upped and died one day.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Ok, this discussion can go in two different directions, to me.

1. People who moan and wail about their copious amounts of selfpity on behalf of the dead.

2. People who quietly feel an intense guilt because they worry that their actions in some part caused or helped the person's death.

Do I think either one of these reactions is healthy? No.

I think the former group of people are attention whores, and the latter probably need counseling.

That much said, I believe death IS somewhat overdramatized in our culture, but at the same time I cannot agree with people who think the whole matter should be given as little notice as possible. The date of birth and date of death are pretty much without any competition when it comes to important dates in a person's life. Nothing else is important enough to overshadow those. So yes, I do believe that dates of death should be preserved similarly to dates of birth. And, since few people have beliefs that do NOT center around some kind of 'life after death', I'm suprised that more cultures do not revere death as a 'rite of passage' from one existence to another.

Going offtopic here...

My own reactions to death? Ironically enough, it occured to me just earlier in the day that my grandmother's birthday was coming up and I needed to get her a card. Then I remember...oh yeah. I don't have her address anymore. I need to call and ask.

It wasn't until I'd been thinking about this for about three hours that I remembered she died this spring.

...My reaction to remembering this?

I remember my outrage...my family didn't bother to notify me of her death until after the funeral, which I WOULD have flown across several states to attend and damn the cost, because she was the only grandparent I had and we had a very close bond.

I remember grief, because I never got to go back to her house for 'one more summer' (it was in the works for me to go for a few weeks in July...)

I remember peace, because she was a devout Catholic, and, according to her own understanding of God and Faith, she went to heaven.

Basically, do I respect her now?

As much as I did when she was alive.

Do I feel guilt or sorrow because of my own actions?

No. She had a rich, full life of which I was only a part. If I DID give her grief (And I'm sure me not being baptised into the catholic faith did) then it was a small grief, and not the center of her existence. I do not think she would want me to convert out of self-imposed guilt. Both her and her God were mature enough to love me inspite of our differences of religion.

[Satori]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Round where I live there was a guy who was shot outside the local shop/store.

He was an evil piece of sh*t and many around here had been mugged or burgled by him yet when he died they created a shrine to him saying how tragic it was and how he'd be missed like he was some saint, forgetting the bloke that shot him was stabbed in the back with a screwdriver and also had his home burgled by him.

I for one thought he was a c*nt and still to this day mock the shrine. its been nearly 5 years and its still there on some poor womans driveway. Its not like he was her family.

yes when somebody dies its sad its a life thats been extinguished.
But in reference to who'm I am on about its a blessing couldnt have happened to a better person at least we can walk the streets and sleep better now.

anyway. You cant really take back whatever you may have said to the person. if you didnt get on quite frankly Melinda gordon won't come ater you with a message from them.

this is why on things like these boards we have to have some degree of control and try to respect one another.
You can't dwell on the past and thinking of these things coulda,woulda, shoulda really doesnt help anyone. Besides if they wasnt dead they'd be giving as good as they got right?

If you have suffered a loss though dont dwell on the bad things remember as many of the good things that you can for the person

[Feba]

Re: Respect for the Dead

If you hate someone, and then they die and you turn around and feel sorry for them you're not doing them any good. They're dead. You're doing it for yourself, and nobody else. That's all that needs to be said on the subject.

[Murphie]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Suddenly feeling sad that someone you hated is dead is kind of hypocritical.

That said, I don't think it's necessary to go the other way and make public your continued dislike of a person that has died, either. It's disrespectful to those who did like that person, and who were left behind. They lost someone they cared about, and don't need some random person being a dick about the recently deceased.

Of course, if you openly dislike someone, maybe you should just keep it to yourself anyway. No one but you really cares.

[Taskmage]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Memetically, it's important for us to remember the good works and attributes of a person who has passed on, so that we can carry forward what we feel was best about them and try to reproduce it in our own lives. Also, it's kindof rude to speak ill of someone who no longer has the opportunity to defend themselves. I think it's a combination of the two that led to the convention of never speaking ill of the dead. Though, I think it's equally important to remember what a dead person did wrong in life, so that those mistakes don't get repeated.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I remember back in high school when one of my friends pulled the trigger on himself. I was probably one of the few friends he had, everyone else made fun of him. Day after day, year after year he faced little else than rejection from other people, even at his church for crying out loud.

When his senior year came, nothing went right for him. Parents got divorced, the only other person he thought understood him - his girlfriend - dumped him, his grades were getting lower and every college he applied to turned him away. This on top of people mocking him and wearing down on him day after day.

I'll admit even I found him a little annoying at times and it was a friendship I somewhat took for granted. The last time I spoke with him he was basically just being an annoying ass on the phone, so I hung up on him and went back to my homework.

The next day, I didn't see him at school, waiting to ram into me in the breezeway or punch me in the shoulder like he always did when classes were over. I go to work after and when I come home to find out that hours before, he rolled into a dark corner of the school parking lot and shot himself.

It shook me pretty hard, but I wasn't the only one. The next day was probably one of the hardest ever for me and teachers rounded up everyone who had been affected by it. Ironically, it was mostly the very same people who picked on him all those years. They felt guilty and we all probably should have to a degree. Its hard not to feel like you might have been the factor when someone goes to such an extreme.

But the truth is it was everyone and no one's fault. We didn't pull the trigger and we'd never know what the catalyst was so there was no point in beating ourselves up. But even so, it changed those people's lives for the better in one aspect - how they treated others from that point on. It was the hardest lesson anyone could learn and a lot of them grew up quickly in that final quarter of our senior year.

As for respecting him in death, I respect him, but it doesn't change the fact I hate him. I despise that he ended his life selfishly, stealing himself away from all those that cared about him and not valuing them or himself.

The way I honor his memory, though, is by carrying on as the writer he envied me for being. If I see an opportunity to stop someone from making the mistakes he did, I often try to help that person and make them feel valued.

There are different ways in which we lose people, some tragic and others natural. Each bears its own kind of pain, some of which are easier to deal with than others. I've lost people to natural causes, cancer, murder and suicide. None of them feels and bad as suicide. Murder at least gives me a target for my hatred, suicide I get no direct outlet. Natural causes and disease everyone can kinda cope with a bit easier.

I've never lost anyone close to me in an accident. There was this girl I was a dance partner with for a time, but it was really just for a musical, I didn't know her. She died in a car accident the next year and one of her friends was in the car with her, he survived.

She was an actress and a singer, loved the arts with all her heart. That's what little I knew of her. And she died roughly a few months before my friend did. Her friend, you can still see him limp from his injury that year, he's never been quite the same, but damn he's one hell of an artist now. She's still part of him.

[Feba]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I despise that he ended his life selfishly, stealing himself away from all those that cared about him and not valuing them or himself.

And is wanting someone where pretty much nobody really likes him, even his 'friends' to keep themselves living in misery for your own sake less selfish somehow?

[Aeni]

Re: Respect for the Dead

I just wanted to say, BBQ, that was pretty well written.

Feba,

Everyone has opinions and values, and for whatever reasons, they just feel or think in some way. Sometimes, there is no logical reasoning behind an emotion or maybe there might be a reason, but it might not be understood by many.

Not everything in life can be measured and valued against a scale.

[Feba]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Not everything in life can be measured and valued against a scale.

And I did nothing of the sort. I'm just saying, expecting someone to stay alive for you is far more selfish than killing yourself.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Respect for the Dead

When you don't have many life experiences, scales are all one has to go by.

[Feba]

Re: Respect for the Dead

Ah, making assumptions about someone because they don't spend all their time bitching to people on the internet that don't give a shit. nice.

Really BBQ, if you can find anyone out there that's as sheltered as you think I am, I'll be impressed.