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  • New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

    Originally posted by CNN
    New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules
    • Story Highlights
    • Communication between Americans and targeted foreigners fall under new rules
    • Court approval no longer required to eavesdrop in that scenario
    • National intelligence director, attorney general may approve such monitoring
    • Congress: New provisions would expire after 6 months, unless renewed
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- For the first time in nearly four decades, a senior intelligence official -- not a secretive federal court -- will have a decisive voice in whether Americans' communications can be monitored when they talk to foreigners overseas.
    The shift came over the weekend as Congress hustled through changes to the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA.
    The bill provides new powers to the National Security Agency to monitor communications that enter the United States and involve foreigners who are the subjects of a national security investigation.
    Apprehensive about what they were doing, Congress specified that the new provisions would expire after six months, unless renewed.
    They would give National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales joint authority to approve the monitoring of such calls and e-mails, rather than the 11-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
    That means an intelligence official is now empowered to sort through the legalistic, secretive world of FISA, rather than a judge or the nation's highest law enforcement officer.
    McConnell was added to the legal decision-making after lawmakers argued that the embattled attorney general shouldn't hold the power alone. The spy chief's experience is largely in military intelligence, not legal matters.
    Civil liberties groups and some Democrats call the bill a vast expansion of government power. In the past several days, officials who work for McConnell, the Justice Department and the Republican congressional leadership have argued vehemently that that isn't so.
    On Monday, White House spokeswoman Tony Fratto dismissed as "highly misleading" any suggestion that the changes broadly expanded the government's authority to eavesdrop on Americans' communications without court approval.
    However, the law's wording -- underscored by conversations with administration officials -- shows the rules governing when and how Americans' calls and e-mails will be monitored have changed significantly.
    Communications that can get caught up in intelligence collection require a spectrum of approvals, depending on the circumstances. Generally, such calls, e-mails, text messages and other electronic exchanges fall into three categories:
    • Purely foreign overseas communications. The NSA can monitor these calls and e-mails without any signoff from a judge or a senior government official.
    • Domestic conversations between two Americans. The Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable search and seizure requires that the government get approval from a court before eavesdropping on these exchanges.
    • Communications between an American and a foreigner, a more complex, gray area. If the American is the target of the investigation, then a court must approve the surveillance, the White House says. However, if the foreigner is the target, no court approval is necessary under the new law. Instead, Gonzales and McConnell will decide together whether to go ahead with the work.
    It's this area -- when an American is talking to a foreign suspect -- where the Bush administration has acquired powers it didn't have before.
    Under government regulations, agencies are supposed to minimize the collection, retention, and dissemination of any information about a U.S. citizen. Often that means names are blacked out, unless the identity is crucial to understanding the conversation.
    Lisa Graves of the Center for National Security Studies, which advocates for civil liberties, said the new law will potentially allow the government to intercept millions of Americans' calls and e-mails without warrants -- as long as the NSA and other authorities have a foreign suspect in their sights.
    "This power that they have obtained is a dramatic expansion," she said.
    The Bush administration also fixed an odd quirk of the surveillance law that it said had emerged with the rapid technological growth of the past two decades: The government had to get legal approval to listen in on foreign suspects who are located overseas but whose conversations cross into the extensive U.S. communications network, as millions of international calls and e-mails do each day.
    While the law is in effect, that legal approval will no longer be required, officials acknowledged.
    The power may last longer than some people expect, Graves noted, thanks to a little-noticed provision of the bill. While the law expires in February unless Congress acts to extend it, any surveillance orders that are in place when it sunsets can last up to a full year, she said.
    Without a repeal, lawmakers "weren't just giving them the power for six months. They were giving it to them for the rest of the administration," Graves said.
    Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
    Interesting

  • #2
    Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

    I don't think its a big deal.
    I mean, your calls and such are only going to be dropped in on if its a suspect overseas. If they drop on you talking to someone questionable, why are you talking to them in the first place, and even if you are, nothings going to happen unless you're talking about something you inherently shouldn't be talking about. Sure it is a violation of privacy a tad, but its not like anything is really going to result from it, at least in a negative sense.
    Twilightrose- THF/49 WAR/24 WHM/53 BLM/32 RNG/15 BST/25 NIN/27

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    • #3
      Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

      I don't think its a big deal.
      I mean, your calls and such are only going to be dropped in on if its a suspect overseas. If they drop on you talking to someone questionable, why are you talking to them in the first place, and even if you are, nothings going to happen unless you're talking about something you inherently shouldn't be talking about. Sure it is a violation of privacy a tad, but its not like anything is really going to result from it, at least in a negative sense.
      It's subtleties like these that eventually result in a loss of rights. And the point is, in this administration, you don't even know if they're investigating people related to their public agenda.

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      • #4
        Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

        All this is is making official actions that were already going on. They already know what you did last summer.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
        I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are.

        HTTP Error 418 - I'm A Teapot - The resulting entity body MAY be short and stout.

        loose

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        • #5
          Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

          This is a double edged sword very good for counter terrorism, but a small loss in personal rights. Again tho international affairs can be very tricky.
          [FFXI Journal][Pld][War][Nin][Drg][Rng][Brd]



          http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll154/xsev/orly.jpg

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          • #6
            Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

            Originally posted by Mhurron
            All this is is making official actions that were already going on. They already know what you did last summer.
            The problem is now that it's legal. Therefore, if we find out about it, we can't do anything.

            Originally posted by SevIfrit
            This is a double edged sword very good for counter terrorism, but a small loss in personal rights. Again tho international affairs can be very tricky.
            A double-edged sword for conflicts that could be easily avoided if countries weren't so imperialistic.

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            • #7
              Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

              Originally posted by PhiberOpticks View Post
              The problem is now that it's legal. Therefore, if we find out about it, we can't do anything.
              This is funny. What were you going to do? Sue the NSA with no proof of anything? People already knew about it. Making it legal changes nothing, it was happening yesterday it will happen tomorrow. When it happened before there was nothing you could do about it, when it happens now there was nothing you could do about it.

              Nothing has changed.
              I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are.

              HTTP Error 418 - I'm A Teapot - The resulting entity body MAY be short and stout.

              loose

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              • #8
                Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                ven if you are, nothings going to happen unless you're talking about something you inherently shouldn't be talking about.
                Ah, the old "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" excuse.

                very good for counter terrorism, but a small loss in personal rights.
                These two types of mentalities are why it's going to be a miracle if there are any personal rights left (In America, at least) in two decades.

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                • #9
                  Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                  Originally posted by PhiberOpticks View Post
                  It's subtleties like these that eventually result in a loss of rights. And the point is, in this administration, you don't even know if they're investigating people related to their public agenda.
                  Last I checked this administration was just a fragment of the political spectrum on a whole. They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force. There are many, many factions at different levels of the government that don't follow blindly and bow down. And yes, sure it can result in loss of rights, but you know, I'm not too worried about that, typically when that gets too severe a little bit of anarchy loves to spread itself. Granted we need to be aware of such losses, but personally I feel this is jumping the gun, there was FAR more to worry about that could have resulted from such a thing as the Patriot Act. Honestly, also, I'm not too worried about the administration monitoring people not on their agenda, chances are they would be doing it by accident, there have been far too many fumbles on there part over the past few years for me to view them as much of a capable administration.
                  Twilightrose- THF/49 WAR/24 WHM/53 BLM/32 RNG/15 BST/25 NIN/27

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                  • #10
                    Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                    They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force.
                    You are a terrorist. Now that I believe that, I can do pretty much any sort of investigation I want, hold and torture you without trial or legal counsel, thanks to the riot act. It doesn't matter if there are factions, they don't become involved.

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                    • #11
                      Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                      Originally posted by Feba View Post
                      Ah, the old "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" excuse.
                      These two types of mentalities are why it's going to be a miracle if there are any personal rights left (In America, at least) in two decades.
                      Privacy can not be respected at every turn. If it was we would rarely apprehend child pornographers and the like. There are a few give and takes that are necessary to the maintenance of society, while this might or might not be one of those, I feel its hardly a transgression to be concerned with, as mentioned, its only transmissions involving foreign suspects. If they cross that line then its time to worry, but as for now its not that big of deal. Sure maybe your cousin from Northern Pakistan calls you to talk about the latest version of Busty Beauties or how many men you recently "ravished", which then gets recorded, shoved into an archive where no one touches it, and then either forgotten or destroyed. Of course on the other hand if he calls and talks about acquiring explosive elements, or throws the word "bomb" around several times, or discusses money laundering, etc.. (see illegal and concerning) then there might be ramifications from such actions.
                      Twilightrose- THF/49 WAR/24 WHM/53 BLM/32 RNG/15 BST/25 NIN/27

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                      • #12
                        Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                        They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force.
                        I know. But they may as well be aiming for that, since they're allowed to spy on whoever they want in the country and can arrest people without habeas corpus.

                        Privacy can not be respected at every turn.
                        In a country that prides itself on inalienable rights? Okay, I believe you.

                        If it was we would rarely apprehend child pornographers and the like.
                        That's what probable cause is for.

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                        • #13
                          Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                          Great DieselBoy, now the NSA is reading this thread and knows we know they know.
                          I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are.

                          HTTP Error 418 - I'm A Teapot - The resulting entity body MAY be short and stout.

                          loose

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                            Originally posted by DieselBoy09 View Post
                            Granted we need to be aware of such losses, but personally I feel this is jumping the gun, there was FAR more to worry about that could have resulted from such a thing as the Patriot Act.
                            orz
                            Twilightrose- THF/49 WAR/24 WHM/53 BLM/32 RNG/15 BST/25 NIN/27

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                            • #15
                              Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

                              Originally posted by PhiberOpticks View Post
                              In a country that prides itself on inalienable rights? Okay, I believe you.
                              Go scream fire in a movie theater and see how well you can 'uphold' your First Amendment rights. EVERY right has a limit, it has always been that way.
                              I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are.

                              HTTP Error 418 - I'm A Teapot - The resulting entity body MAY be short and stout.

                              loose

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