Marijuana

[Caspian]

Re: Marijuana

Dak and everyone else. If you disagree on the matter, thats fine. However, [i[do not[/i] resort to name calling and degradation. I'm trying to cut some slack but its becoming increasingly difficult. Insulting others because you have a difference of opinion will not be tolerated.

As for the subject at hand, the agrument for legalizing it or saying its ok b/c of its uses medically really doesn't hold water. Morphine is a powerful drug used in hospital settings, but that doesn't mean its not dangerous in recreational use.
Honestly, I'm not your father, do what you want. Personally, I've had too many friends who've completely fucked up their lives because of the drug and that alone is reason enough for me to stay away from it.
Also, everyone needs to realize that while you may be able to smoke weed and not have it affect your life, most people have had experiences that are in direct opposite of that. You may be the exception that proves the rule, but I've never known anyone that was able to keep those two parts of their lives separate and you have to understand that that is where the stereotypes come from.

[Sabaron]

Re: Marijuana

Uh-huh, let's all tell each other to do pointless things. That's pretty much what I expect from a stoner. If anything, I'm being dislikeful, which is quite an accomplishment seeing as how these people degrade our society. Jews, gays, blacks, and women, as you put it, don't. It's hard to see the box itself when you're on the inside.



Nobody cares. Really. You don't care either, it's just on your checklist of things to bring up to give marijuana some credit.

There you go assuming again... I don't actually smoke pot (though I have). You don't have to do something to disagree with how certain people are treated. You do not deserve a moment more of my time. IMO you are a terrible person and I weep for anyone who actually encounters you in real life... I'm sure you'll grow up to be a wonderful oppressor of others.

[Ameroth]

Re: Marijuana

Uh-huh, let's all tell each other to do pointless things. That's pretty much what I expect from a stoner. If anything, I'm being dislikeful, which is quite an accomplishment seeing as how these people degrade our society

There we go again with the unfounded insults on a personal level. Sabaron never said that he currently smokes pot, or that he even uses it occasionally. He mentioned that he has tried it though, and therefore you label him a stoner. It seems that you are afraid that all the propaganda you have had shoved down your throat could maybe be wrong, and that maybe people who use drugs aren't just mindless idiots without a future. Tell me, how does someone who smokes pot "degrade our society" anymore than your bigotry and prejudice?

Yes, if it's bad you should generally stay away from it. Why would sports be illegal? There's only risk of physical injury...

Would you not say that physical injury is bad?

Can't see very well? Buy a cane. Don't be so pathetic.

This is possibly one of the most despicable and down-right fucking mean things I've ever read. You are really coming off as a great person here buddy.

Marijuana's obvious damage to the personality, and mental stability

Please cite a source for this claim.


Don't you find it interesting that, even though I use pot, I'm not some "retard" or "mindless zombie," and that I am able to refute all of your arguments without lowering myself to childish name calling and stereotypical insults?

[DakAttack]

Re: Marijuana

There you go assuming again... I don't actually smoke pot (though I have). You don't have to do something to disagree with how certain people are treated. You do not deserve a moment more of my time. IMO you are a terrible person and I weep for anyone who actually encounters you in real life... I'm sure you'll grow up to be a wonderful oppressor of others.

I'm so glad you knew that by 'a stoner' I meant 'Sabaron' because that's EXACTLY what I meant. Be the victim, whatever blows your skirt up. I'm not the villain here.

Would you not say that physical injury is bad?

Risk management. In my daily endeavors I avoid physical injury, yet I still suffer from various issues and ailments from the past. I don't let it bother me or slow me down. If you can't handle it , stay safe. My problems don't stupid me up, alter my perception of reality, make me think it's OK to not shower on a daily basis, or anything like that. I may favor an arm or leg, garner some sympathy, whatever, but that's about it.

Besides, the risk of physical injury is inherant throughout your entire life. Who does that stop from living it? When you can avoid certain risks you do, so why should that be different when it comes to marijuana use?

This is possibly one of the most despicable and down-right fucking mean things I've ever read. You are really coming off as a great person here buddy.

Be realistic, you can llive life being a walking pity-party or you can man-up about your problems. Sight loss probably wasn't the best example: http://www.glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.html.

Don't you find it interesting that, even though I use pot, I'm not some "retard" or "mindless zombie," and that I am able to refute all of your arguments without lowering myself to childish name calling and stereotypical insults?

You haven't refuted anything, just commented mindless zombie style.

[Sabaron]

Re: Marijuana

As for the subject at hand, the agrument for legalizing it or saying its ok b/c of its uses medically really doesn't hold water. Morphine is a powerful drug used in hospital settings, but that doesn't mean its not dangerous in recreational use.

Medical? Please... Pot isn't really a medicine, though truly a good deal of western medicine is just used to hide symptoms rather than do any actual good. Pot makes you less apt to care that your life sucks. In that way it is a medicine. Aspirin makes you not feel pain (it doesn't mean there isn't something still wrong with you), it just means you don't feel it as much. Pot is a recreational substance... Hemp is an industrial substance. Pot use isn't inherently dangerous, it takes a huge amount of it to kill anyone. It can be argued, however, that smoking it is inherently bad for you, but there are other methods of taking it (eat or vaporize). I don't think anyone has ever died from a pot overdose and it doesn't have permanent side effects (it acts on a specialized receptor in the brain whereas substances like alcohol are actually toxic). THC is a highly non-toxic psychoactive compound. It's effects are rather temporary in nature though you may see some changes in a person who consumes it to excess, these are likely the result of a combination of factors (with most likely the same root cause as the self-medication).

Pot self-medication is similar to any other addiction wherein a drug is taken to excess so that the person doesn't care so much about their abysmal lot in life. The substance rates lowest on the scale of addictive chemicals--there are many medications that serve very spurious medical purposes that are also quite addictive such as sleep aids and pain killers which also become substances of abuse.

Honestly, I'm not your father, do what you want. Personally, I've had too many friends who've completely fucked up their lives because of the drug and that alone is reason enough for me to stay away from it.

That is my point exactly except to say that... Where you say "I'm" I say, "We" referring to the American Body Politic. It is not our job to say what you can and cannot do. The US is founded on the basis of personal liberty, not some type of adult "Nannyism". I'm not your mommy and I'm surely not interested in paying good tax money so that we can put some old lady who grows pot in jail... I feel there's way too much "Nannyism" going around in the US and it needs to be stopped. It becomes a vehicle for corruption and a method of divesting people of their hard earned money. Money is a representation of work which is a representation of time spent toward the ends of society. Time is lifeforce, therefore, to persecute "stoners" is to waste your life doing so. Do you really care that much? I will simply assume the answer for that from most of the anti-marijuana league herein that the answer is yes. You would rather a pot smoker spend his entire life in jail (or better yet, why don't we just shoot them all--that way we don't have to feed them--dirty bastards) than let them peacefully enjoy themselves while doing no harm to you.

Rubbish.

You're not God.

You didn't write the 10 Commandments.

God didn't mention pot in them either (it's also not in Leviticus).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Marijuana

Medical? Please... Pot isn't really a medicine, though truly a good deal of western medicine is just used to hide symptoms rather than do any actual good. Pot makes you less apt to care that your life sucks. In that way it is a medicine.

While I'm clearly against the recreational use of marijuana (and very strongly against putting smoke into lungs in general), there are enough testimonies on its effectiveness on increasing the appetides of chemo patients and others to make me consider it a useful tool medically, especially in cases where the patient has trouble taking THC pills orally.

It's not a cure all, but if it's effective in that limited capacity, it should be made available to those who need it. I do wish they could find better delivery vehicle than smoke, though. (Some sort of nasal aerosal spray with dosing control would be nice.)

* * *

As an aside, prohibition against recreational usage should be relaxed for terminal patients. The danger of long term addiction is just not that important when talking about someone who will expire in six months. I'd go as far as advocating these stuff if it makes the lives of their caretakers more pleasant by mellowing the dying people and make them easier to deal with.

[Caspian]

Re: Marijuana

Sabaron,
Yeah, the medical use thing was more a reply to those (not necessarily those who've posted here, seeing how I can't recall seing it in this thread) who say that b/c of that it should be made legal. Ifrit makes a point about the appetite stimulation, but often there are other ways to induce appetites and occurs very rarely.

As for the legal/illegal side of it, I do believe that morals have a place in our laws, if for no other reason than that once you go down that road, you run a slippery slope of trying determine which laws are there because of the morality. You probably are right though, the majority of it boils down to business and money. If the government could make the same money off taxing pot that they do off of tobacco and alcohol, it probably would be legal. (Though I do have problems with the whole idea of "sin taxes" to begin with.)
I'm also guessing the last part of your post wasn't directed at me.
I'll try not to get too much into libertarianism and the like, but if you want to talk about it in pm's or something, I'd be more than happy.

One more thing, a few people have quoted the line of freedom to pursue "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Just don't forget the last part of that quote: "without due process." Pretty much all of that which is being discussed has been ruled on in the courts, thereby nullifying that argument.

And just to lighten the mood a bit: GO SPURS!!!!!!!!

[Deeke]

Re: Marijuana

Interesting read.

A few points:

Anyone who regards ALL stoners as a burden on society is, by default, themself a burden on society. Sweeping generalisations - and those who make them - cause problems easily on a par with users of marijuana.

Egocentrics, you have no place in a topic such as this. Not everybody shares your own circumstances. Don't judge others based on what you would have done/would do in their shoes.

And lastly

Surely I'm not the only one that can see the blatant parallels between pot and MMOs?

[Srxjo]

Re: Marijuana

As an aside, prohibition against recreational usage should be relaxed for terminal patients. The danger of long term addiction is just not that important when talking about someone who will expire in six months. I'd go as far as advocating these stuff if it makes the lives of their caretakers more pleasant by mellowing the dying people and make them easier to deal with.

i totally agree with this, might aswell ease their pain in the little time they have in life

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Marijuana

I was actually more concerned with the caretakers than the terminally ill... >_>; After all, the former will be around for years, where as the later will be gone shortly.

But, sure, whatever...

[Sabaron]

Re: Marijuana

...especially in cases where the patient has trouble taking THC pills orally.

I'm not sure if I'd buy that excuse (from anyone). I have a friend who takes these pills (Marinol). They are tiny, only about a millimeter in diameter, take a look:

[Mhurron]

Re: Marijuana

Anyone who regards ALL stoners as a burden on society is, by default, themself a burden on society. Sweeping generalisations - and those who make them - cause problems easily on a par with users of marijuana.

Um, ya. Ok. Sweeping generalizations and such. Have fun with that.

Surely I'm not the only one that can see the blatant parallels between pot and MMOs?

I had no idea that MMO's formed a chemical dependance in it's users.

[Sevv]

Re: Marijuana

A good amount of MMO users are drug users lol hi2u wow

[Ameroth]

Re: Marijuana

Um, ya. Ok. Sweeping generalizations and such. Have fun with that.

I had no idea that MMO's formed a chemical dependance in it's users.

Pot does not do this either. Pot is almost totally non-addictive in any physical or chemical manner. It can be, however, psychologically addictive. Then again, just about anything can be psychologically addictive. Watching tv, coming to these forums, *gasp* playing FFXI, etc. The conclusion that Deeke was making is that both activities (pot and MMOs) can be a very addictive habit mentally. Neither causes a chemical dependence.

You haven't refuted anything, just commented mindless zombie style.

But you said I'm only a mindless zombie when I'm high, and I haven't posted to this thread while high. Refuted that claim.

@Dak: It's pretty obvious we are both on opposing sides of humanistic rights concerns and probably won't concede to each other. You have nothing but contempt for people who think and act differently from you, and I see myself as much more open-minded than that. I'm done going at your throat, but I still won't hesitate to shoot down any ignorant claims or generalizations you make about cannabis or other drugs, or their users.

Which reminds me, you never cited a source for this:

Marijuana's obvious damage to the personality, and mental stability

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{Time for Work!}

[Feba]

Re: Marijuana

Surely I'm not the only one that can see the blatant parallels between pot and MMOs?

The thing you're missing here is that MMOs are cheap.