Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

[neokaril]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Hey I can't agree more, parents need to be involved, but so does everyone else, brushing it off as someone else's problem or someone else's deficiency won't fix it. Making statements like parents need to be better parents is great, making statements like people need to be better stewards is more accurate. It's a sad state that women are taught in rape prevention and defense classes to scream fire because people are more apt to respond to a fire in fear of damage to their own property than to scream rape because people will ignore that as not their problem.
I'm in no way saying to take child rearing off of a parents list of must do's, just to understand that development is everyone's responsibility, because the actions of these kids, who will one day be adults has ramifications on us all.

[Nazo]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

just be a better parent and the chances that your kid will turn out a productive/non-killing member of society is a lot greater. I think we can all agree on that.

Because every bad parent makes a conscious decision to be that way, right?

[Jarre]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Hey I can't agree more, parents need to be involved, but so does everyone else, brushing it off as someone else's problem or someone else's deficiency won't fix it. Making statements like parents need to be better parents is great, making statements like people need to be better stewards is more accurate.

Then explain what I should have done in the situation with the 8 year olds, ina way that wouldn't get me arrested or investigated. Other than what I said, I can do nothing, but I;'m, willing to listen to how you think I should ahev dealt with it or in your words be a "Better Steward".

[neokaril]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Of course I wasn't there nor do I know your situation intimately, and I'm not trying to make this personal towards you or anyone else, just bringing to light that blanket statemnts don't help the situation.

It sounds from your telling that this is a common problem, as I stated earlier, involve the authorities, I'm sure this is a curfew violation (unless you don't have curfew laws) if that doesn't work bring it to a coucil meeting, or to the local papers, if you recognize this as a problem, I'm sure others do to and maybe the community as a whole just needs a catalyst to do something about it.

Maybe these kids are out because they have nothing better to do, granted in the most perfect of wolrds their parents would provide that for them, but if that's not happening, what's stopping the community from?


Point being there are many different options that can be explored. Again this isn't a problem with what you do, it is a problem with what WE do, which is normally complain, point blame and allow the problem to worsen, until it culminates with something truely awful happening.

[eticket109]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Its sad that it takes a tragedy like this to get some people to realize that their words and actions really do affect other people and maybe they shouldn't be assholes all the time.

[Nazo]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

It sounds from your telling that this is a common problem, as I stated earlier, involve the authorities, I'm sure this is a curfew violation (unless you don't have curfew laws) if that doesn't work bring it to a coucil meeting, or to the local papers, if you recognize this as a problem, I'm sure others do to and maybe the community as a whole just needs a catalyst to do something about it.

Unfortunately this is an all too common problem in the UK nowadays, and it's very much a recognized one, it's just that no-one knows what to do about it. The other night I was walking home at around 9pm I encountered a bunch of teenagers on the other side of the road who were pulling branches off trees and throwing them at passing cars and pedestrians. Lucky for me their aim wasn't all that great but had I tried to intervene there's a good chance I would have been on the wrong end of a beating.

I agree entirely that society has collective responsibility but sadly most of the time it isn't practical or safe to practise.

[neokaril]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

It's sad and I understand exactly what you are saying, I'm not saying there is a quick fix to any of this, it took years and generations for things to get bad, it will take just as long for them to get better again. The area I grew up in, cops wouldn't come to at night. When I was a kid that meant parents just didn't let there kids outside, that kept their kids safe, but didn't fix the problem. Only when people started making enough noise to get media attention and took an active stance against "bad guys" did things begin to improve. When we turn a blind eye, or fail to take a stand, others around us see that action and are more likely to follow suit, the same can be said for taking a stand, for doing the right thing and if at the end of the day I stand alone, so be it, at least I stood
I have placed myself in really dumb situations before, hell last week I got in between to gang members and a homeless man who was about to be destroyed over a cigarette, I ended up ending the situation peacefully and it only costs me 10 bucks (which I gave to the homeless guy to make him go away), but it could have been a disastrous situation. To me any life, even the life of a homeless man is worth something, certainly more than 10 dollars. Was it my place to get involved? Some would say no, certainly the other 10 or 15 people standing around were content with ignoring the situation, but I certainly had the opportunity to make the situation better than it was..
Don't get me wrong I have been guilty of turning a blind eye before, but I try not to, I try to weigh situations and involve myself as I can for the betterment of whoever. If we all tried to do something, anything, rather than just agreeing that it's broken and someone needs to fix it, we could make it better.
I know a lot of you run around in the game like I do healing random ailments and healing people, why because you can and it feels good to help, I know many of you try to report malicious players rather than or in addition to /blist them, I know many of you take new players under your wing and help them through learning the "life" in game. Really I'm talking about nothing more than those same qualities you already exhibit in game being used in real life.
Again just my 2 cents,

[Omni]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Because every bad parent makes a conscious decision to be that way, right?

i think so more or less. neglect, laziness and indifference to me have the same results as consciously choosing to not raise your child properly.

[Jarre]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

I have placed myself in really dumb situations before, hell last week I got in between to gang members and a homeless man who was about to be destroyed over a cigarette, I ended up ending the situation peacefully and it only costs me 10 bucks (which I gave to the homeless guy to make him go away), but it could have been a disastrous situation. To me any life, even the life of a homeless man is worth something, certainly more than 10 dollars. Was it my place to get involved? Some would say no, certainly the other 10 or 15 people standing around were content with ignoring the situation, but I certainly had the opportunity to make the situation better than it was.

and what if they turned on you? You put yourself into a situation that could have turned really bad and even threatened your life. Sometimes you have to stand back and protect No 1 i.e. yourself, it sounds a selfish attitude, but more and more heros are in teh papers here being seriously injured or even killed (the recent shootings in Manchester where a bystander rushed to help a guy that got shot and got shot himself and died) This is the real world not some cotton wool padded society that people seem to think their in.

In truth about your comments on the Uk authorities. They know about it, boy have their been campaigns etc. and what was their solution? ASBOS (Anti social behavior orders) Basic a curefew on troubled kids. what happened? they ignored them and aused more problems, using the ASBO as a status symbol, "Hey man I;ve got an Asbo" etc etc. The polcie can;t do anything as if they touch the kids, they can open tehmselves up for prosecution etc. Kids know this and will milk it for all their worth. There is no disipline in society thanks to all the PC Fuckwits who have amde up these laws protecting kids. When i was younger if I was bad, I'd get a smack, you related that to BAD. In school teachers were stil allowed to smack as well (it was banned half way through my senior school)

Society now is violent, a joke and not soemthing I would want to bring a kid into. People are gettign away with lots, even criminal s here in teh Uk are let off with shorter sentances or no jail due to prisons being over crowded, Our police now walk around in bodyarmour, you can;t go out on a saturday night without seeing a fight. In my city They have a MASH tent set up in the main bar area with 4 paramedics and 3 nurses to treat all the drunken incidents to reduce the 1000 cases going through the local hospital every weekend.

All of this started during my generation i.e. 1980's kids. All my generation who have kids are more likely to bring up a kid wrongly than a generation ago and it is getting worse. Something needs to be done about it, but the Government, local politics etc. are washign their hands of it because they just don't know what to suggest.

any change that happens has to start at home. i don't care what people say but the attitude of a kid is started from home, if parents are good aprents and bring up their kids properly, spend time etc. Kids normal have more respect for others, if like at least 50% of parents these days here in the uk swear at their kids, beat them up, ignore them, let ehm stay out whenever they want and basically the kids have no disapline, the kids are going to turn out bad.

And for Starving artist comments, it may not be 100% the fault of the aprents but it has been proven to be 90% during a recent survey here in the uk.

[neokaril]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

We can go back and forth on this forever with no change, you summed up the difference accurately, you believe in looking out for number 1, which is yourself, I believe in looking out for others, my personal well being is secondary or tertiary to the well being of others. Self preservation is a strong motivator and I don't fault you for it. I have chosen a profession where I routinely put my life on the line for complete strangers and I'm ok with that, others find that foolish, I'm ok with that too. I'm not a kid, I'm a 32 year old man, I don't make my decisions lightly and I sleep well at night.
I fully understand what can happen when I put myself in situations, I also fully understand what can happen when people refuse to act. I would rather take action than not. That's a personal decision I make.
I do have to disagree with you on bad parents making bad kids, "good parenting" makes bad kids too and "bad parenting" makes good kids, this is because it isn't the influence, but what each person does with the influence, with all influences, that determines our make up.. If I resigned myself to the fact that bad parenting makes bad children I would have grown up to be what my dad was. I don't live in the projects, I didn't spend most of my life in a federal penitentiary, I don't beat my child. I have 2 college degrees, where my dad doesn't even have a high school diploma.
My point being, while having a good home life is a benefit, it is simply a nice to have, it isn't the qualifier that determines human development. When presented with two paths, each person decides which path to take, people who blame their debaucheries on their upbringing are simply using yet another excuse to push the blame off of themselves..
As I said before I fully understand your points on this issue Jarre and I fully understand that you and I wont agree on these points, I respect that and respect your adamant stance in supporting your opinion. I have no desire to try and force a change in your opinion, just know that I am living proof that while parents do have the capability of being great influences on children, they are not the only influencing factor, and there is no unbreakable spiral.

[Jarre]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Its a good healthy debate and worthy of the two sides opinions, cultural difference do play a part here as well on the aspect as it is slightly different here in teh uk with different issues than over there in the US. Until i was made redundant I was a retained firefighter (called via pager) and I would not question risking my life to go into a burning building to get someone out. However thats because I'm trained, i know what to look for, how to deal with many unforseen situations etc. In this context however it is better to protect yourself and not risk it in the quoted scenarios. It is probably the most contraversial and most improtant issue to us all here on this small planet we inhabit. The politicians need to wake up to how "people are turning out" but they don't, red tape and burocracy has made the situation worse and pushed to goal posts in the kids favour, a drastic change to the "older" thinking may (and not saying it will) sort a few problem kids out and their attitude but it is a global problem that needs to be pushed up the agenda before it gets too far out of hand.

No one hs respect for their elders these days

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

Respect for elders is worthless. Respect is something to be earned, not freely given, just like trust. Age does not make someone more intelligent or wise. While there are many elderly individuals that deserve respect, there is also a mass of them that are not deserving an ounce of respect. A good example is my racist grandmother who quotes Bill O'reilly, advocates the castration (not in a physical sense) of homosexuals and openly says that all Muslims should be slain in any way possible. While we don't treat her poorly, she is undeserving of respect and reverance.
Humane treatment and regard are something I rather offer to all individuals, but respect is something the individual actively has to show they are deserving of or for the most part, show they are undeserving of as with a blank slate there should always be a base degree of respect.