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Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

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  • Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

    Today in the Dallas paper I read possibly the most fair-minded and constructive reflection on the lessons of the Va. Tech shooting, written by a columnist named Jacquielynn Floyd. The official posting of the article is here for credit, but for convenience I've pasted it here. I'm just really impressed by this. I don't think I could've put it better.
    Predictably and inevitably, we didn't even know the dead gunman's name before we started assigning blame for his catastrophic act on the Virginia Tech campus.

    The usual-suspects list is a long one, and it's still growing: too many guns, too few guns, lousy security, inept administrators, inadequate mental-health laws, school bullies, unprepared bystanders, gory movies, violent video games, signals missed and warnings ignored.

    We want to identify mistakes or lapses that can be fixed with new laws or better procedures. To suppose that we can't is too bleak and frightening to contemplate. It leaves us too vulnerable to the blind mayhem of random madness.

    Cho Seung-Hui, in the glaring light of retrospect, was positively radioactive with warning signals.

    He frightened his own instructors. He was a friendless, frustrated loner; he was preoccupied with guns and violence; he badgered women with unwanted attention.

    Time and again, it is suggested, "opportunities were missed" to intervene and, if not repair what was wrong with him, at least to protect the people around him.

    But, of all the solutions that have already been proffered (and the countless more certain to come), nothing strikes me as, ultimately, more useful than this: Be a little nicer.

    "What can you do? If you see someone who seems unhappy and could use a friend, try and be one."

    The person who makes this suggestion is not some noodle-necked, sandal-shod, New Age sensitivity wiener.

    It's James Alan Fox, a Massachusetts professor who probably knows as much about high body-count homicides as anybody alive. He has studied the occurrence, the psychology and the methodology of mass and serial killers for decades. He has written several books on the topic. He has served as a consultant to law enforcement.

    And it's his extremely informed opinion that, as tempting as it is to find a fix that will identify and prevent mass killers, no such fix exists, short of making politically intolerable sacrifices of our accustomed freedoms.

    I caught up with Dr. Fox, who has for obvious reasons been in great demand this week, on his cellphone while he was at a Boston Starbucks drive-through.

    "You cannot identify the would-be shooters," he said flatly. "These things always become clearer in the aftermath than they actually were."

    Yet the Virginia Tech gunman shared striking similarities with the mass killers that preceded him. If we always seem to hear the same clichés, it's because they're accurate – these people are socially isolated, paranoid loners. They blame other people for their perceived problems. They're desperately, chronically depressed.

    But, contrary to one very common cliché, they don't "just snap." Like Mr. Cho, they nurse these grievances for a very long time. They plan their assaults with obsessive care.

    Often there's a precipitating incident that sets the plan in motion – a lost job, a romantic breakup – but the idea is already there.

    To cite just one proposed solution, a "cooling off" period for a firearms purchase wouldn't apply – the guns are already bought. A semi-automatic weapons ban might reduce the death toll (that's a political fight for another day), but it wouldn't prevent the attacks.

    (An aside: Dr. Fox makes the dry observation that we-in-the-media are less than helpful in our obsession with crowning a numerical "worst-ever" killer, since it conceivably can be an incitement to copycats.)

    These shooters, with remarkable consistency, are angry, odd, prickly people. They're the easy-to-spot losers in the social pecking order.

    So why can't we identify them?

    "Because a large number of people fit that profile," Dr. Fox said. "It's a needle in a very big haystack." Most of them – nearly all of them – never hurt anybody.

    There's considerable comfort in keeping that fact front and center. Mass murder is profoundly rare – you may not want to hear it, but when you pack your kid off to college, he or she is in a great deal more danger from drunken driving than from the statistically insignificant Mr. Chos of the world.

    We'd be less than human, though, if we didn't grasp at solutions.

    I'm not naive enough to suppose that being Ned Flanders-nice to the class creep is a blanket vaccination against future bloodshed.

    But trying to be a little more civil, a little less cruel and exclusive and hypercompetitive, might make a difference to somebody. At the very least, it might make our society a slightly easier place to be the odd man out.

    It's not a magic fix. But then, nothing is.
    lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

  • #2
    Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

    I don't wanna kill you all in balista.... so be nicer to me.
    There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
    but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
    transform a yellow spot into the sun.

    - Pablo Picasso

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    • #3
      Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

      But trying to be a little more civil, a little less cruel and exclusive and hypercompetitive, might make a difference to somebody. At the very least, it might make our society a slightly easier place to be the odd man out.
      That's a great line. I just wish people would take things to heart more and use their heads. However, not everyone has the same sense as the most of us do.

      It's sad but people just dont care. It's the whole, well it's not me so who gives a crap attitude.

      I'm just trying to imagine myself as a teacher or some sort, saying this to a bunch of jr high kids or high school kids. How many do you really think would take this to heart?

      The thing that frightens me the most is that there will inevitably be more columbines and vtechs in our future. We just wont ever learn.
      Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
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      • #4
        Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

        We can try, though. I mean, I'll take it to heart, and perhaps the emotional shockwave in the wake of the shooting will make more people receptive to the message. I think it was Roy Mustang who said "We can only fix what we can touch." There's no use in worrying about how other people will take it, but I think what you quoted is something we could all stand to apply to everything we do. If not to prevent shootings then at least to make the world around us ever so slightly better.

        It's not the miracle fix we want, but it's all we can reasonably do.
        lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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        • #5
          Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          The thing that frightens me the most is that there will inevitably be more columbines and vtechs in our future. We just wont ever learn.
          I agree, I think we will see a lot more of these type of events before things start to change.

          I taught at a high school for 2 years before I got tired of it. The moment they started imprisoning parents for spanking children, and removed many of the tried and true methods of raising children, we started on this path. It will take a generation or more before we could even begin to fix this I think.

          Too many people are having children when they arn't ready, and too many factors in schools that are going to promote this type of attitude in the end.

          I wish there was a solution to this, but I fear there isn't one. Time will tell I suppose.

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          • #6
            Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

            I'm just trying to imagine myself as a teacher or some sort, saying this to a bunch of jr high kids or high school kids. How many do you really think would take this to heart?
            unless electricity is involved, i'm guessing 1 at best.

            i agree that people just don't care (i am guilty of this too often), but what i find more baffling is that parents don't care either. look, if you are not going to take the time and effort to properly parent your kids, don't reproduce.

            Thanks Yyg!

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            • #7
              Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

              Originally posted by neighbortaru View Post
              look, if you are not going to take the time and effort to properly parent your kids, don't reproduce.
              Likewise, this line would probably be more meaningful if reproduction was a decision people conciously made, rather than something that happens when steps aren't taken to properly prevent it. At least, that's my take on it.
              lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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              • #8
                Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                Originally posted by Taskmage View Post
                Likewise, this line would probably be more meaningful if reproduction was a decision people conciously made, rather than something that happens when steps aren't taken to properly prevent it. At least, that's my take on it.
                no argument from me there
                *sigh* people

                Thanks Yyg!

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                • #9
                  Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                  This was in the Morning News? I am impressed.
                  Like they said, its easy to lose people in the shuffle of paperwork.

                  I believe its still on the same trend, but as of 2 years ago, violent crimes were on a serious down slope. Thats overall though, I'd have to look up the numbers for these type of mass homicide killings.

                  I do agree too, I'd figure 99% of it boils down to parenting. They weren't hugged enough as a child. We've become a society where its everyone else's responsibility to take care of things. Its frightening how many parents send their children to school expecting the school system to teach them discipline, respect, and boundaries. Teachers get overloaded and spend more time covering things that should have been taught years ago in the home and not enough time to teach their actual subjects.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                    There is also the them and us culture. The shooter in his video talked about the Rich kids and their attitude towards him, obviously his background was a non rich background. It also talked about him being bullied by the rich kids for not having money his quote of "the mercedes driving kids" hassling him etc. Peer presure and the need to have the best fashion clothes the best car etc. sort of the Cordelia vs willow (Buffy reference) i.e. girl who has it all vs girl who is normal and just has the bare necesities.

                    We are having this culture in the UK increasing, there was a recent article in the local news about a kid being beaten up because he was wearing £10 trainers and not he latest Nike £120 trainers, and being bullied because his father worked in a factory and earnt the minimum wage.

                    Its not a problem wih computer games, Tv etc. Its a problem with current society. They need to stop making scapegoats by blaming these thigns and look at the real problem. Poverty, kids attitudes to it and parenting.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                      Amen. (Not that I want to throw religion into the discussion, but I couldn't think of a more agreeable word.)

                      Parenting is what it ALL(99.5%) comes down to. Not only are couples having kids before they are really ready, many don't have a good grasp of what "ready for a child" means. It is not just an economic bracket or age range - you need to be ready to put at least one other person before yourself. I am a big supporter of one parent staying at home to raise the child and be a positive, grounding influence on them (not necessarily the woman).

                      I believe this lack of responsibility in parenting has influenced at least one generation of children and it is really starting to have a negative effect on society in general. The children learn to blame their faults on others, and it carries over to adulthood and the rearing of their own children. People are held to less and less of a standard every year - it wears you down and it just gets too difficult to correct the little things anymore. And then, before you know it, kids are bringing guns to school and shooting their classmates, many times blaming others for their own personal faults.
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                      • #12
                        Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                        Blaming bad parenting is as easy and as meaningless as blaming video games, or violent movies. A quick point-the-finger response with no real insight or analysis behind it. A person's life is such a rich tapestry of events and interactions, to isolate one factor and say 'this is to blame' without having any kind of background knowledge of the person or their circumstances is rather asinine don't you think?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                          Originally posted by Nazo View Post
                          Blaming bad parenting is as easy and as meaningless as blaming video games, or violent movies. A quick point-the-finger response with no real insight or analysis behind it. A person's life is such a rich tapestry of events and interactions, to isolate one factor and say 'this is to blame' without having any kind of background knowledge of the person or their circumstances is rather asinine don't you think?
                          Ok, my statement that parenting is what is all comes down to was a bit too much, but I keep my stance that parenting is still a large part. Without a solid parental figure to teach you right/wrong and good/bad, the "Hollywood" of society today can corrupt a young mind. If everyone in the world were Ned Flanders then being a responsible parent wouldn't be such an issue, but that is not the case. In this day and age information comes so easy and fast, and it gets to kids at a younger and younger age. I remember my Sister jumping for joy over a land-line phone in her room. My Niece at the same age has an Internet ready cell phone.

                          I would not blame bad parenting for this incident, I am not saying the parents were wrong for it, but you can't tell me it is not partially a factor.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                            Originally posted by Nazo View Post
                            Blaming bad parenting is as easy and as meaningless as blaming video games, or violent movies. A quick point-the-finger response with no real insight or analysis behind it. A person's life is such a rich tapestry of events and interactions, to isolate one factor and say 'this is to blame' without having any kind of background knowledge of the person or their circumstances is rather asinine don't you think?
                            That's a bit broad. Bad parenting is a lot more influential than a kid playing video games. A persons background is more or less first shaped by their parents and their experiences growing up. You wont find too many kids that are good decent kids up through college then go nuts (minus mental issues). It typically just doesnt work that way. Kids that had issues growing up dont always turn out bad, some realize that to make it you need to shape up and some dont.

                            We're pre-dispositioned to learn from our parents. The moment we pop out of our mom's womb, we're learning from what we see and hear especially from our parent(s). When we are young, bad parenting, trauma and neglect tend to mess with the wiring of kids and they tend to not be capable of distinguishing between right and wrong. It tends to malform or just not form at all, the sense of awareness that most people have. That's why a lot of times when you have trouble kids that continually get into trouble day in and day out they just dont feel bad about it because they dont care. They really dont care if ppl are hurt or if people think they're being bad. It just doesnt register to them. It's difficult trying to reason with someone who really just deep down has no ability for feeling.

                            This isnt going to say that bad parenting is the only thing that affects kids and young adults but it surely is probably one of the first things to get the ball rolling down hill.
                            Last edited by Omni; 04-23-2007, 09:59 AM.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Va. Tech Shooting: Be nice!

                              OK so let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right and parenting is largely to blame. Are you saying parenting is getting worse? If so why? Presumably people learn parenting from their own parents, so a child with a bad parent becomes a bad parent themselves and a child with good ones become good parents.
                              Incidents such as this one are almost unheard of outside the US, even in countries such as Canada where guns are as common, are you saying that Americans are the worst parents in the world?

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