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**Mog** · 12-04-2006, 12:53 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Originally posted by Vair View Post

"Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPG) is a digital escape from the real world for emotionally unhealthy and mentally unstable people. It is a place for computer enthusiasts and social outcasts to gather un-bothered and un-harassed by the realities of real life.

HAHAHHAHAHA. Oh god, please stop me from laughing somebody.

/sniff. What a good laugh. Whoever said this fails at life.

Edit: in response to your survey, I'll answer it later. A bit busy now ^^

**Skoal** · 12-04-2006, 01:08 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPG) is a digital escape from the real world for emotionally unhealthy and mentally unstable people. It is a place for computer enthusiasts and social outcasts to gather un-bothered and un-harassed by the realities of real life.
While the focus and idea behind MMORPG seems utopian and innocent, the emotional and mental wellness of the gamer can be severely affected: increased anxiety and irritability, argumentative, appetite and weight loss, impaired judgment, paranoia, sadness and depression, loss of interest in appearance, and sleeplessness." - MAVAV

I think this statement is so far out there that nobody would really believe it. I am neither a computer enthusiast nor a social outcast. I am not sad, paranoid and will never let my looks go down the tube.

I came from living in a fraternity house in college, going out 4-5 days a week partying, not really going to classes because college was so easy, and lots of other fun stuff. FFXI was something to fill up my time when I graduated and started working. I moved to big city and didn't really know anyone. I made a few friends, but didn't like going out during the week and feeling like shit at work the next day.

My brother also played but when went to college he dropped the game in an instance. I think both of us enjoyed it but it never took over our lives.

To answer your question about highschool drop outs: I blame the parents. If my parents weren't on me, I would have sub par grades. I was blessed with the ability to not study and still make decent grades (an ability that would bite me in my ass first semester of college). I had a few friends who weren't very smart and if their parents hadn't have pushed them, then they would have failed/dropped out. I knew that highschool was nothing more than a means to getting into college for me.

Enough for one post, I will respond more when others do.

**Mog** · 12-04-2006, 01:12 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Originally posted by Skoal View Post

I think this statement is so far out there that nobody would really believe it. I am neither a computer enthusiast nor a social outcast. I am not sad, paranoid and will never let my looks go down the tube.

I came from living in a fraternity house in college, going out 4-5 days a week partying, not really going to classes because college was so easy, and lots of other fun stuff. FFXI was something to fill up my time when I graduated and started working. I moved to big city and didn't really know anyone. I made a few friends, but didn't like going out during the week and feeling like shit at work the next day.

My brother also played but when went to college he dropped the game in an instance. I think both of us enjoyed it but it never took over our lives.

To answer your question about highschool drop outs: I blame the parents. If my parents weren't on me, I would have sub par grades. I was blessed with the ability to not study and still make decent grades (an ability that would bite me in my ass first semester of college). I had a few friends who weren't very smart and if their parents hadn't have pushed them, then they would have failed/dropped out. I knew that highschool was nothing more than a means to getting into college for me.

Enough for one post, I will respond more when others do.

It's all about time management. I balance this with other stuff in my college life: friends, work, schoolwork, food. Some people can't do this. If people blame grades on MMO's, it's due the fact that you don't focus on schoolwork and pay too much attention to the game.

Me personally? I play FFXI, I'm a 75 blm, and currently, I'm maintaining a 4.0 average at Virginia Tech. Moreover, I'm number 1 in the class, so this game really doesn't have any negative effect on my life. I'm able to balance schoolwork with my pool league, partying, work schedule, and the game.

If you don't have discipline, I agree, this game will mess up your life.

**Skoal** · 12-04-2006, 01:17 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Thanks Mog, that is what I was trying to say. When my playtime was at its height, I would still go to work, go to the gym and make sure everything was ready for my next day before I would touch the game.

**Mhurron** · 12-04-2006, 01:40 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

You do know that mavav 'group' is a hoax right?

**eticket109** · 12-04-2006, 01:57 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

http://a.parsons.edu/~dyoo/2002-3/interactivity/mavav/

**Skoal** · 12-04-2006, 02:00 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

I guess my first sentence in my first post summed it up. Hoax or not, what Mog said about time management is true when playing a mmorpg.

**eticket109** · 12-04-2006, 02:07 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

{word}

That's the biggest thing. I know 40 year olds who play this game more obsessively then most teenagers do anyway. Words like 'age' and 'kids' really have little to do with the debate in the end, but that's hardly ever recognized.

**Macht** · 12-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Originally posted by Mog View Post

It's all about time management. I balance this with other stuff in my college life: friends, work, schoolwork, food. Some people can't do this. If people blame grades on MMO's, it's due the fact that you don't focus on schoolwork and pay too much attention to the game.
Me personally? I play FFXI, I'm a 75 blm, and currently, I'm maintaining a 4.0 average at Virginia Tech. Moreover, I'm number 1 in the class, so this game really doesn't have any negative effect on my life. I'm able to balance schoolwork with my pool league, partying, work schedule, and the game.
If you don't have discipline, I agree, this game will mess up your life.

Should fix anyone addicted to anything will mess them up. That statement made in the OP was flat out rediculous. Many people who play MMO's at some point or another actually visit those players and have a rl experience (Get see how they act in rl, learn their behaviors, likes, and other stuff). Out of EQ I've had 36 such experiences and 1 of them being a developer of EQ. From FFXI I've had 8 so far.

That is by no means actions of some social outcast, I say it creates some pretty intresting communities and cultures that otherwise probably would of died out to a main stream community.

I mean any of that long list of problems can be a result of anything. What, I'm going to blame MMORPGs because I happen to be argumentative? That was my nature way before I ever played a game. I use to annoy the hell out of teachers because I would argue with them and there had been quite a few times were I was actually right. The only two teachers that immediatly come to mind that my arguments never won against because they really knew their stuff was my Calculus teacher in High School and Mr. Little (Big guy of both height and weight, great irony) for my tech class finishing the Cisco Certification from what I started in High School. The teacher that was teaching the class for the first half of that Cisco Certification I had corrected so many times that when she stated something she had reffered to me to confirm (Think that's pretty bad though since I'm the one there that's suppose to be learning).

**Vair** · 12-04-2006, 02:10 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

Argh, I didn't know that. I had heard that there was a possibility that it was. Yikes, I can't believe this. I'm gonna have to re write half of my paper. Yeesh.

Damn you Zach Lieberman!

/sigh Back to the drawing board. And it was such a great resource as well. >.>

**eticket109** · 12-04-2006, 02:19 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

What social skills do you suppose that one could gain through MMO interaction?

Most MMOs, especially FFXI can help build teamwork and community skills. It's learned very early on in most MMOs that you can't reach your fullest potential without a strong support structure around you. You also learn fast how burning bridges and spurning friendships can hurt your plans in the long run.

What negative effects could one gain through playing an MMO?

There is a tendency in general for online activities in general to degrade some grammar and communication skills. If playtime is mis-managed then after time the game can take priority over real-life. This can lead to problems with friends, family, work or school. Such a result is uncommon, but it can happen.

Finally, I would like to discuss the other possible causes of seemingly MMO related actions.

For instance, what is more to blame for the highschool drop out rate? MMOs, the failing public education system, School Violence, Cliques, Money, poverty, etc?

There is no easy answer. Most of those items listed are contributing factors to varying degrees. I would say overall that games, let alone MMOs have a very limited impact. At some point, if a student is playing games too much, there should be a parent there to discipline or control the behavior. If the parent doesn't act and the student fails, I find it hard to point at the game as the cause. At the same time, it isn't always the parent's fault. A single mother working 80 hours a week to support her kids, can't parent as actively as another parent might. That doesn't make her a worse parent though, just a less effective one. Like I said though, all of those factors that are listed can contribute to drop-out rates increasing.

If I had to pick one thing, I would point at the school systems and by proxy the community as a whole. The american public school system is becoming antiquated. Kids today are receiving the same general education in the same environment and classrooms that I was taught in over 20 years ago. Yet, any time a bond measure comes up for improvements or technological advancements, it's typically voted down. Until we address that cycle as a whole, the problem isn't going anywhere.

**Icemage** · 12-04-2006, 02:42 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

First, I think we need to separate a few issues from one another here.

(1) The general perception that people that play MMORPGs are all teenaged recluses who used to go out in the woods and dress up and wave wooden swords at one another really needs to die a horrible death. MMORPGs are effectively mainstream nowadays - more so every day. World of Warcraft boasts over 6 million subscribers, and according to this graph at MMOGchart.com, there are over 12 million subscribers worldwide for MMORPGs as a whole.

(2) MMORPGs aren't going to herald the coming of the Apocalypse. The problems of modern society are a combination of our increased perception of issues, as well as perhaps some reaction to the rate of change in society (which technology has greatly accelerated in the past century). Otherwise human nature is pretty much the same as it has ever been.

(3) While it's true that it's certainly possible to balance time in a typical MMORPG with a normal living schedule, that's not the complete picture. MMO developers try very hard to keep people playing - many MMOs have huge time sinks which are designed to do nothing but slow players down and make them invest time into the game.

The reason? Extension of content. Players who feel they've "finished" a game will tend to stop playing it. This rule is especially true for MMOs that charge a monthly fee. Thus, it's in the best interests of the developers to throw as many roadblocks in the way of players as possible, to delay the point where players have felt they've beaten the game.

While it's true that you can certainly ignore the Siren's call of your MMORPG of choice and keep balance in your life, it's not for lack of trying on the part of MMO developers.

In this sense, I think that MMORPGs really are somewhat destructive by nature. They have a vested interest in keeping you playing - and thus keeping you paying. For people without as much self-control, that's when you hear about people skipping work/class/whatever.

Icemage

**tdh** · 12-04-2006, 04:18 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

I love that a 4 year old school project still gets people riled up. I love it even more that it's over a completely fabricated haox. (Yeah, I know that's redundant, but since a 4 year old line of B.S. still gets people's attention, I felt could get away with it. ^^)

**Khevn** · 12-04-2006, 04:38 PM

Re: MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

1. MAVAV... bah they can come back and talk to me when there article website actually has an extensive list of articles... with links that are actually working! I'm an avid MMO player and I'm in the military services (USMC). Let me tell you this, mouse clicking did not teach me anything about M-16A1 Service rifle. The difference is night and day. No amount of Doom or CS will teach you how to properly use a weapon. Those parents of columbine(sp) being from middle America probably bought there kids there first pellet rifles and air rifles when they were 10. I almost gaurantee you that no one can learn how to aim a rifle with mouse cross hairs... It makes no sence... Those kids obviously had those weapons and had shot them several times to get used to them long before they had that incedent. Hmmm, where were the parents? Also a trend I've noticed, is that games don't make people violent, so much as violent people tend to like Violent games. Almost every service member I know can accurately distinguish the difference of GTA and grappling and range exercises, and we play TONS of games. Parents just need to hug your kids and maybe actually spend time with them instead of going off and meeting the guy/gal your kids call aunt/uncle while daddy/mommy is a way. Maybe encourage your kids creativity and imagination alittle, so they don't have to look for it on the internet. When mommy says computers are for those trench coat wearing guys, and doesn't support her kids and guide them correctly, guess what they think "So those tench coat wearing guys might understand me since mommy/daddy doesn't care."

2. As a service member, one big thing that many active players of MMO's learn are the basics of leadership. It takes leadership, tact and an understanding of others goals to go out and create these groups. Anyone who plays these games often enough quickly learn who the go to guys (the ones that are smart and fair) are. They also learn really quick what it means to put others needs before you and how to be socially courteous. MMO's are great because being an extreme asshole means your setting your self back. You also learn how to react under group and situational pressure. You learn about peer pressure and how to acknowledge and get out of it. There are infinitely many things you learn, and yes with real living breathing people. That usually aren't drunk at a bar trying to find a easy hook-ups to get there rocks off. Sorry mommy and daddy, not every kid is the star running back or Soccer Center, or Pitcher, or homerun hitter... also not ever kid is science wiz, computer master, or literature scholar... so encourage your kids strengths and teach them there weaknesses.

3. Negative effects, of course. Just like anything in life, over use can cause heavy side effects. I'm a strong beleiver that young children without proper supervision should never play MMO's. Why you ask? because Adults play these games and talk about Adult things, so if you don't want little Johny learning about sex in the wrong ways maybe you should, hmm I don't know, spend time with your kid watch him play, see what he;s talking about. It's these parents that think there kid is so great, and never ask them questions and never TALK to there kids outside of do your chores that are going to have these problems. Also if you think your kid is having a negative experience playing a game, well then be a responsible adult and take it away. Kids are kids, you have to learn right and wrong as you grow up, so if you let your kid gorge and video games and not buy them a book two and play a board game with them, then they "Learn" that playing games and for ungodly amounts of time is ok. It's your child, your responsibility, your fault if your kid is staying up and 72 hrs and lost 20 lbs. For all you single parents out there. No, excuses there's tons of clubs/institution that extremely cheap and very rewarding for kids to be apart of after school, and during the summer, while your at work, so there not couped in the house playing computer games. Also children already knowingly diagnosed with social behaviors and mental instabilities should not be playing games that could cause such symptoms to arise. It's up to the parent to be responsible, a kid is a kid. Your job as a parent is to make sure your kid is getting to be a kid safely and successfully.

Lastly, I blame the High School drop out rate on the high degree of unplanned children and marriages. The extreme amounts of young parents that aren't ready for children who are "Still immature" themselves, now raising kids.

Me I'm 22, Actively serving in the Marine Corps, I play 3 mmo's 75 Paladin on FFXI, 60 Blade Dance on Lineage 2 and a 60 Druid on wow, I alternate each game by months. I rarely playon week nights, and I enjoy going out with friends just as much as playing MMO's and Most of my friends play these games with me.

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MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

MMORPGs and their effect on the Public.

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