Save the Internet!

[Caspian]

Re: Save the Internet!

I'd like to see specifically how they're calling it a private network. Anyone can dial into it. And from what I understand, most ISP's pay a larger company for what they use. Seems like they'd be shooting themselves in the foot to do this.
Seems like unless the attorneys they get to argue against it are totally clueless, then it will never happen.

[Tatha-Kitten]

Re: Save the Internet!

I doubt this could happen, it would be overturned within days even if it did pass.

Besides which, the internet is used world wide, imagine the shit they'd be in if the rest of the world got pissed off at them for it. there are fates worse than death my friends... fates like an entire world's angry teenagers.

Myself included.

It sucks, i'm in england, so i have no control over this situation, and yet, if it did go through, then i would be unable to use any website run by an american company without paying a fee.

I did not sign up for pay as you go internet!

I got a contract for a reason damnit!!!

[Matera]

Re: Save the Internet!

As long as the vast majority doesn't think "Someone else will be doing so I don't have too" if they do then we have a problem. Such example of that possiblity:

Take it easy Kojak, no need to make me the bad guy here.

From what I understand, is that a handful of crazy Americans wants to privatize the internet, making it similar to something like a television channel.

You can't exactly completely privatize it, but you can change what you want on it.

Is that accurate?

[Stromgarde]

Re: Save the Internet!

If they actually attempt to pull this off the people behind this will get DDOS'd into the ground by international hackers before too long. They can't stop piracy, and DDOS isn't something you can stop either, and it has dire consequences for people on the recieving end.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Save the Internet!

Actually it is a huge issue that is being lobbied heavily right now. This has been going on for a few years, but they've really got their s**t together this year. They basically want to squeeze the little guys out.

Watch this little video if you are having a hard time trying to understand what they are up to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9jHOn0EW8U

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: Save the Internet!

Okay, seeing this I'm like..."What the hell"?

I support Net Neutrality.
I'm a furry artist, and I upload art to various websites. I do not want to be blocked from those sites and have to pay a "Premium" fee...or be redirected to Yahoo.com when going to Google.com, or even worse...being redirected to IGE when trying to go to FFXIOnline.com and being directed to World of Warcraft's site when viewing POL... *shudders*

And even more worse? Directing you to a white snake when trying to visit a site that educates people about, say, political and corporate corruption--all because some Lobbyist and Politician paid a company to do so. If you don't know what a White Snake is, it's an HTML site that crashes your computer.

Hell, they can control the MMORPGs you play, the videos you watch, places you shop, all by slowing it down or grinding it to a halt.

You see, that's why I loathe Corporations due to stuff like this. They act like "The Big Guys Who Rule You All!".....sons of [really long expletive phrase edited out by Moaku hyena]...

If we don't have Net Neutrality, can we say....China?

[Jarre]

Re: Save the Internet!

So it basically makes a mockery of one of your ammendments about free speach, as they wish to restrict what you can view. This is not old news as china have their own intranet for the county and they restrict anyone in china from accessing what we know as the internet and like what you are suggesting the US do, there own sites they "moderate" anything to do witht he government i.e. websites contradicting them etc.

The internet is really a second media, its just like getting a paper and you find half the pages missing or words and sentances blacked out. one phrase "political censorship" i.e. you can only read what tehy want you to read as long as it put them in a good light.

all i can say is what a load of b*****ks, at this rate with all the thigns happening you wont have any freedom, big brother will be watching you all the time, though come to think of it, they already do monitor phone calls, sites you visit, emails you send etc etc. I know they do in my country, even though they deny it.

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: Save the Internet!

With Net Neutrality removed, you can bet your arse that it'll be abused instantly.

And I stmbled onto a site that is against "Save The Internet" called www.handsoff.org.

On the YouTube video, there was a comment that Handsoff was paid for by the telcom companies.

And plus, seeing a topic called "Blame Canada" on handsoff.org is really....ew.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Save the Internet!

Yes the huge telecom companies want you to believe that big internet companies like Google, Yahoo, MySpace, etc are getting a free ride. Funny thing is the only one getting a free ride is them! Those big companies have to pay the telecom companies through the teeth for access just like we do. So everyone using the internet is paying except for the telecoms, so who's getting the free ride? And now they want premium prices from big internet companies and be able to restrict or downgrade access to smaller start ups. All over the God almighty buck. I guess they aren't making enough money to ensure that every f'in generation in their family never has to work a damn day in their lives!

[Darkhound]

Re: Save the Internet!

Correct me if I am wrong but, I consider the Internet a "postmodern" concept, hence it will be VERY difficult to "control" it. Given the amount of information, and knowledge around it, there is nothing that could possibly stop. If certain locks or mods are appliekd there will always be the underworld, or other things... there is nothing stopping this....

Any comments.??

[Gentoo]

Re: Save the Internet!

Making the internet a private network is like trying to fence in the ocean, or contain air and charge a dime per breath. It'll never work and everyone who tries will get run over by the vast majority that does not support it.

See, it's not like that at all.

The thing is, there are only a dozen'ish companies that control the internet backbone (AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, et al.) -- and there's alot of money to be made by those companies introducing non-neutral networking to the internet.

From your computer, you connect to your ISP's network, from there, chances are they connect one of those internet backbone providers. You're not going to get far without having to play by the rules of the big companies.

If they decide to introduce tiered routing it'll be difficult to get around it. Sure there will be surreptitious methods for doing so, but the vast majority of people will be stuck playing by the arbitrary rules of those networking companies.

DDoS attack aren't going to cure anything, not to mention that people to deploy such methods really are despicable. Moaku Hyena really nailed it with:

If we don't have Net Neutrality, can we say....China?

The real solution is to get the word out, and get net-neutrality written into law.

Do exactly what Kilandor did -- post information about what's going on to other web sites you frequent.

If you're an American contact your representative and tell them to get some net neutrality laws on the books. (Don't just sit idly by and think this can't happen [because it can], or that if it does something will magically make it go away if it does [because it won't])

If you're not American, ask your American friends to be your voice, and have them contact their representative. If you've got a representative in your country, you might want to inform them that a non-neutral intnet has international ramifications (that is, it could produce a chilling effect), and ask them to lean on their American counterpart.

[Matera]

Re: Save the Internet!

Okay, I understand it more now...

What the hell is with some of those American politicians?

[Macht]

Re: Save the Internet!

Okay, I understand it more now...

What the hell is with some of those American politicians?

Yeah, sorry for getting on you for that remark. Just this is incredibly insaine, seems like ever since Bush got in there he's been f****** everything up. Starts to make you wonder which one was the lesser of two evils Bush or Kerry...

[Mhurron]

Re: Save the Internet!

I'd like to see specifically how they're calling it a private network.

They're not. Saying its privatization is a misnomer the internet is already is a collection of Private (as opposed to government run) networks, but calling it privatization makes people who do not really understand what they are trying to do mad about it so its a better tool. What the class A providers want to be able to do is charge both the consumer (you) and the content providers (websites) to provide you with the 'best' service they can, they want to implement a tiered system.

Currently no matter who your provider is you will get the maximum possible (at that moment) bandwidth to any site on the internet no matter what the sites relation to your ISP. This is net neutrality.

What they want to do is limit everyones bandwidth to say 50% if it is going outside their own network, so their own paying customers do not get everything they can. Then they would begin to classify sites, sites that are also their customers would be called Tier A sites and their customers would again get to be able to use all the bandwidth when communicating with them. Sites that are not their direct customer, but pay to be higher then default would be called Tier B sites and customers accessing them would have say 80% bandwidth to use. Those that didn't pay up would be Tier C clients and would be limited to the 50% (or lower).

Now say you want to search for something and you're an AT&T customer. Google and Yahoo have not paid AT&T and so are Tier C sites, while MSN has paid to be a Tier B site. MSN will work faster then either Yahoo or Google because of bandwidth shaping and so eventually lot of AT&T customers will start using MSN instead of others. MSN gets more ad revenue from the increased traffic so continues to pay AT&T to be treated as a preferred customer. AT&T gets paid by you and MSN and can use the lost traffic to Yahoo and Google to try and extort money out of them as well.

Bush

Try and understand an issue before spouting off crap.

[Macht]

Re: Save the Internet!

They're not. Saying its privatization is a misnomer the internet is already is a collection of Private (as opposed to government run) networks, but calling it privatization makes people who do not really understand what they are trying to do mad about it so its a better tool. What the class A providers want to be able to do is charge both the consumer (you) and the content providers (websites) to provide you with the 'best' service they can, they want to implement a tiered system.

Currently no matter who your provider is you will get the maximum possible (at that moment) bandwidth to any site on the internet no matter what the sites relation to your ISP. This is net neutrality.

What they want to do is limit everyones bandwidth to say 50% if it is going outside their own network, so their own paying customers do not get everything they can. Then they would begin to classify sites, sites that are also their customers would be called Tier A sites and their customers would again get to be able to use all the bandwidth when communicating with them. Sites that are not their direct customer, but pay to be higher then default would be called Tier B sites and customers accessing them would have say 80% bandwidth to use. Those that didn't pay up would be Tier C clients and would be limited to the 50% (or lower).

Now say you want to search for something and you're an AT&T customer. Google and Yahoo have not paid AT&T and so are Tier C sites, while MSN has paid to be a Tier B site. MSN will work faster then either Yahoo or Google because of bandwidth shaping and so eventually lot of AT&T customers will start using MSN instead of others. MSN gets more ad revenue from the increased traffic so continues to pay AT&T to be treated as a preferred customer. AT&T gets paid by you and MSN and can use the lost traffic to Yahoo and Google to try and extort money out of them as well.


Try and understand an issue before spouting off crap.

Lol, if the 'spouting off crap' thing was directed to me. Sorry but that spoute wasn't a lack of knowledge, just plain out frustration. I mean my god I've never before heard so many things of these nature happening and coincidentialy it's seems to be horrendous since Bush has been in these past few years. Was good at first but now it seems just so wrong for him to still be there, he just doesn't seem to be capable of handling it all anymore.

Anyway outside of that any missguided shots at people who may not even have any involvment to is just part of how much is just annoy's me that people would be so greedy.