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  • #16
    Re: Latest Harry Potter Discussion *SPOILERS* &gt;.&lt;

    Having read the book now, I no longer believe in a Snape conspiracy. Snape walked into the room with the intent to kill Dumbledore and did so purposefully. Whether he did it because he's evil or because he was bound to out of paternal feelings towards Draco or some ancient feelings for Narcissa, I still favor the latter. Maybe the curse he used was not Avada Kedavra, for whatever reason, but dead is dead.

    However, I'm now even more convinced than I was that while Dumbledore did die, he is not dead. The reason has something to do with Fawkes. At Dumbledore's funeral, his body bursts into flames and Harry thinks he sees a phoenix fly into the sky. That's a dead giveaway as far as I'm concerned.

    There are a few ways he might have done this, some involving horcruxes. Yes a horcrux is terrible dark magic, forbidden by Dumbledore himself to even speak of within Hogwarts. But I think this is mainly because knowledge of creating horcruxes makes its prerequisite act, murder, that much more appealing. At any rate, for Dumbledore to have created a horcrux, he would first have had to kill someone, an act entirely out of Dumbledore's character, but there are still two ways I can think of. First, he destroyed Voldemort's horcrux in Marvelo's ring, which involves eradicating a human spirit, or at least part of one. I don't know if that's close enough to murder to count, but it may have been something to work with. Fawkes is the second possibility. We've seen Fawkes eat an Avada Kedavra, only to burst into flames and be reborn as a little chick. It may be that Dumbledore "murdered" his pet bird knowing it would cause no permanent harm, to cause the soul damage necessary to create a horcrux.

    Either way, this happened between books 5 and 6, because Dumbledore's arm is withered and dead-looking when he comes to pick up Harry at the Dursleys' in book 6. By the fact that this deformity is persistent throughout the year, even in the presence of wizards skilled in healing arts, we can assume that the injury cannot be cured by known magic, potions, or conventional medicine. This leads me to believe that it is a reflection of a spiritual injury, much like the ones borne by Voldemort when he returned to seek the DADA teaching position the second time. If I'm not mistaken, Dumbledore himself said that the state of his arm was the result of terrible dark magic, though he didn't reveal the details.

    So what is Dumbledore's horcrux? This is probably the least necessary part of the theory, and the hardest part to prove, but I love it nonetheless. It's been revealed that it is possible to use a living creature as a horcrux, as Dumbledore suspects that Voldemort used the snake, Nagini, to create his 6th and final horcrux. Wouldn't it be just the type of genius we'd expect from Dumbledore to bind his spirit with a creature that is itself immune to death? ^^ I think Fawkes himself is the bearer of Dumbledore's spirit.

    Dumbledore creating his own horcrux is my pet theory, but it's not the only explanation. Horcruxes aren't the only gateways to immortality. Having knowledge of horcruxes and also being a good friend of Flamel, who created the philosopher's stone, I'm sure Dumbledore had enough knowledge to devise his own way to cheat death, one not involving a physical medium or requiring the use of dark arts. In any case, I suspect Fawkes is a key. A wizard's patronus is a window into his nature, after all. Making Dumbledore's patronus a phoenix is, to me, tantamount to saying that this person is not easily defeated, even by death itself.
    lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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    • #17
      Re: Latest Harry Potter Discussion *SPOILERS* &gt;.&lt;

      There's something going on with Snape. I still can't figure out why Dumbledore kept saying "Please, Severus, please." Dumbledore doesn't fear death remember? I suppose he didn't want Snape to actually be bad, but I'm not so sure I buy that (see my reasons in previous posts).

      I could see Fawkes having something to do with it. Some deeper relationship that in some way grants a form of reincarnation possibly?

      Dumbledore using a horcrux? I can't see it. He's supposed to be all good. Keep in mind this is a children's book first and foremost (though it can be easy to forget that, it has some mature content, as well as just being scary as hell). I think having a supposedly morally perfect character do something that has previously been determined to be horrid and unthinkable is just something Rowling wouldn't want to suffer the consequences of. I could see a huge backlash if that happened. Could be equated to telling your children that its ok to murder. Remember that it can't just be killing someone, like self defense. It has to be so terrible that it actually rips off a piece of your soul. Based on Dumbledore's past talks, I came away with the feeling that he would rather die himself than do something that evil. Plus, he's already said death is just a change and not something to be feared, which is why Voldemort has so many horcruxes, he fears death.
      If this was a book intended for adults, I could possibly see something where Dumbledore wasn't near as good as he appeared to be and had murdered someone to create a horcrux, but I just can't see that being the case here.
      As far as the withered hand thing: There were some pretty major curses around those horcruxes. Curses so terrible that suffering one could be atleast partially uncurable. It could all just be b/c of a previous horcrux.
      Lastly, Dumbledore could be dead, he could be semi-dead, he could not be dead at all. I tend to believe its the latter. I think this is part of a plan to lull Voldemort into a sense of overconfidence. Dumbledore was the only wizard that he ever feared. Now he thinks he's dead. He'll be more lax, and less wary of someone finding his horcruxes. Remember, none of the Death Eaters know Harry went with Dumbledore on the last horcrux run. He was cloaked the whole time. (It was atleast likely that Voldemort suspected Dumbledore was searching for them.) Now in his mind, he's totally safe. He doesn't fear Harry anymore, and there doesn't look to be anyone strong enough or willing to go head to head with him. Harry also can't know that Dumbledore is still alive, otherwise Voldemort could break the occlumency and find out for sure. As long as Harry and pretty much everyone else remains in the dark, then Voldemort stays overconfident and susceptible.
      Anyway, thats what I think is going on. Let me know what you think.

      Now, please don't ban any C.S. Lewis characters. ; ;
      I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

      PSN: Caspian

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      • #18
        Re: Latest Harry Potter Discussion *SPOILERS* &gt;.&lt;

        Good thing, too. You didn't want to have to explain to Wormwood why he got banned all of a sudden. ;P

        I think he definately died, and there was some kind of magic in place to bring him back. Maybe not a horcrux, probably not really, but there's plenty of material to draw on to support the theory. Using a phoenix as a horcrux was just such a devious idea >:3

        Whatever it is, I'm sure Fawkes is somehow involved. We know phoenixes are powerful magical creatures. Something that just occured to me is the phoenix lament, that was just sortof background noise that was referenced a few times, yet significant enough to name a chapter after. When the song ended, Harry somehow knew that Fawkes had left Hogwarts forever. Then the next day(?) he sees a phoenix rise from Dumbledore's tomb. Maybe Fawkes was passing on that mantle of resurrection?

        Another idea my friend came up with: We don't actually know where phoenixes come from. Maybe phoenixes are the spirits of great wizards.

        At any rate, I'm certain we'll see that character again in some form or another. Dying only to return in glory is what powerful magical beings do, in whatever book you're reading.
        lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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        • #19
          Re: Latest Harry Potter Discussion *SPOILERS* &gt;.&lt;

          I just know that this devious brit will be my best friend if she releases the book THIS summer. Good arguments and speculation. I totally missed all of that.
          The Tao of Ren
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          • #20
            Re: Latest Harry Potter Discussion *SPOILERS* &gt;.&lt;

            I wish. Amazon isn't showing it at all, and last year they had it up in February. Probably gonna be next summer, unfortunately. I guess its pins and needles until then.
            I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

            PSN: Caspian

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