The generation these days

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The generation these days

It's nothing new, they were always around, it's just that it was all hidden before. Teens dated, bedded, and ran amuck back then too, just that parents never knew. It's was always a "two faced" society, just that we're seeing more of the other face today.

Yes kids have always been getting into trouble but the numbers show that it has increased dramatically through the years. You can not cover up this increase with "parents never knew", the numbers are just too significant. Society is changing and its changing for the worse. Back in the day, sneaking out at night and getting caught was a horrible thing. You received some form or punishment for it and had a good talking too also. Now the majority of parents just tell them to knock it off and leave it at that. Parents are slacking off as people become more "me" orientated. Family values suffer and kids don't learn the morals they need nor do they have boundaries that are enforced.

I think some countries, like US, has the "over protective children" syndrome. Instead of trying to cover their eyes and ears, we should be explaining and educating the implications of it. ... I think it's a good thing, society is increasingly open, sexualized, and independent, because sex is a part of life, so is, cursing, and all sorts of foul stuff.

While I'm the first one to say that you should treat your kids with respect, there is still a line that has to be drawn. You don't go having an in depth talk with a 5 yr old about sex just as you don't let 12 yr old girls wear clothing that is revealing and something a grown woman would wear when she goes out clubbing. I always talked with my children about issues and rarely told them "because I said so" or "you don't need to know". I tried to explain to them in terms they could understand about things at the appropriate times. This is called responsible parenting and something that this country is severely lacking!

So while I feel its good to be open with your children at the appropriate times, I also think that there are still boundaries that need to be acknowledged and children still need to be protected from some things until they are able to handle it. Every child matures differently so there really is no set guide that parents can follow. This means they need to be involved in their kids lives and be able to recognize what they can handle.

My son (23) and my daughter (25) still to this day will not swear in my presence. It's kind of funny too because my son and I are in the same LS and talk on our LS's vent server. He's been asked more than a few times by members as to why he says things like "son of a bisquit" "Holey Moley" etc. His reply is "I respect my parents too much to swear in their presence." I've also asked his friends how he is out in public and they say that he does very little swearing, especially if he's in a mixed crowd with older people. Treat kids with respect and you will earn respect.

In my family, I have 3 older sisters. All of us have one girl and one boy. The sister that is closest to me in age is the type of "me" mentality person that is so common now. My aunt and I sat and talked one day about the differences with my sister and me. My aunt said it very well. "When Sue (my sister) would come to visit with her kids, everyone was so disappointed. There was even a few times where I didn't answer my door. Her children were rude disrespectful brats that many family members didn't want around. She never took the time to give her children rules or enforce the ones she did and it really showed. But whenever you came to visit, I would think nothing of your children being with you. They would respect other peoples property and listen to you if you told them to do something. Everyone in the family always loved having your kids around. Sue really dropped the ball and thats why she had so many problems with her kids and still does." This was THE greatest compliment I have ever had in my life. Being involved in your kids lives, giving your kids boundaries, teaching your kids with respect, teaching them morals, praising them, loving them, and paying attention to them are the greatest gifts that you can give them.

[Jei]

Re: The generation these days

I'm totally with GTM. Some habits you can't fix one a person gets too old. You really have to train them since childhood.
GTM, can you explain a bit more about the "me" mentality? I'm curious.

[Rodin]

Re: The generation these days

Lol, I love the grandpa from The Boondocks. "Have ya ever just tried whuppin his ass?"

Honestly, I think most children need some tough love every once in a while. New parents are usually too afraid and inexperienced to discipline their children. To a young child, a slap on the wrist is usually better than a time-out. During the time out, the child might not know what he did wrong, and the "thinking aboout it" will have very little effect. Where a slap on the wrist would teach the child to not touch, or repeat an action for fear of being slapped on the wrist again. It's not until a child is about 8-9 years old that he can understand the concecpt of a time out.

Slapping a child on the wrist isn't child abuse. Many people are afraid to discipline their children in public, because they'd look like a bad parent. I know EVERYONE has been in a store with a child who has been jumping up and down, demanding every toy and chocolate in the store. I'd rather watch a parent spank the child, than have the child jumping up and down, kicking and screaming. And I'm sure you guys just want to go up to the child and smack the hell out of him/her.

I grew up in Calvert County, Maryland. There, they taught Drug Education in the 1st grade, and sex education in the 5th grade. For some reason, Calvert County has some of the lowest teen pregnancy and drug-use percentages in Maryland. Educate your children early about things that will affect them the rest of their lives, and keep reminding them why it's bad/objectionable.

[kuu]

Re: The generation these days

I'm totally with GTM. Some habits you can't fix one a person gets too old. You really have to train them since childhood.
GTM, can you explain a bit more about the "me" mentality? I'm curious.

How old is old? And in that case isn't it more directly with the parent generation who refused to change, rather then the teen who is changing with society?

Yes kids have always been getting into trouble but the numbers show that it has increased dramatically through the years. You can not cover up this increase with "parents never knew", the numbers are just too significant. Society is changing and its changing for the worse. Back in the day, sneaking out at night and getting caught was a horrible thing. You received some form or punishment for it and had a good talking too also. Now the majority of parents just tell them to knock it off and leave it at that. Parents are slacking off as people become more "me" orientated. Family values suffer and kids don't learn the morals they need nor do they have boundaries that are enforced.

Actually it is, we have always been bad little boys and girls, just hidden. I believe this is brought up resently on the movie Kinsey, who wen into the taboo underbelly of society in the 1950s...and they were definitely ugly.

Family values is hard thing, as information and pursue of it leads to certain things. Like a microcosim of the real world, in a family household, the more information you get, the less control the "government" or in this case, the parent, has over children.

In the 1950s etc, the father/mother was always right. Always. Follow your elders so to say...till they get old enough to sneak behind their backs anyway.

Today, children don't listen to their elders..why? Because they believe their elders aren't knowledgable...and that's realistically right. Just because you have years on me doesn't win an arguement.

It's a good and a bad thing, children are getting more information, but at the same time, parents loose control/authority. Even worse is that parents fall into the same folly as children...they can't admit they're wrong, which turns into a big discommunication.

Communication is the key, here no doubt about it, except parents themselves need to remember the sword cuts both ways. If you're sprouting, BS, children will most likely find out in this day and age(internet, media, etc) , and they will just zone you out.

It's like showing a the US flag with 48 stars. Doesn't take a genius to flip open a text book.

Education is not the same as brainwashing.

Using things like "morals", "slutty" and "it just get's worse with each generation", gets you nowhere. It makes you sound old, dated, and a broken pipe, and teens will tune that out quicker then poka music.

[Jei]

Re: The generation these days

oops I tried to quote you kuu, but accidently clicked edit. I edit your reply back.

How old is old? And in that case isn't it more directly with the parent generation who refused to change, rather then the teen who is changing with society?

this totally is a different story. Kids that learn the technology and adapt to the world is all good and cool. But what we're talking about here is not about adaptation.
Will I be happy if my kids learn to write complex C++ application at age 5? hell yes.
Will I be happy if my 5 year old run around in public swearing at people? Heck no. And this is what we're talking about. Can you see what's appropriate and what not?
The way you reply you just don't get it don't you? Good manners will always be good manner, yesterday, today, tomorrow and 10 years from now.

[Caspian]

Re: The generation these days

Kuu, I think when TGM and others are talking about teaching your kids right and wrong and such in reference to teenagers these days, they're talking about teaching them when they're much younger. I think its safe to say by the time the kid is a teenager they will go through the "I know more than anyone" phase and you're right, they're not going to listen to you on much of anything. Your psyche is already pretty developed by 10 or 11. You're still not mature by any means, but you have a rather decent concept of right and wrong by then. Like most parents you have to do your best when you can and hope it sticks with them when you're not around.
Personally, I know when I was a teenager I was an a-hole to my parents. However, much of what they taught me when I was younger still stuck with me and kept me out of a fair bit of trouble.
You say having all this misbehavior out in the open is a good thing? I understand that in some ways they're atleast being honest and not lieing about their actions, but it doesn't make those actions any less wrong. When they become an open thing, then society as a whole slowly starts accepting them as a norm and the line b/w right and wrong slowly gets pushed back a little more with each generation. (If thats not what you meant, then I apalogize for putting words in your mouth.)
I just pray I can be a tenth of as good of a parent as my parenst were to me. Funny, I'm nowhere even close to marriage, but raising my kids right is something I often stress about. It takes such a fine touch to do properly. Don't smother them, but don't turn a blind eye to everything either. I have nothing but the utmost respect for those that do it well.

[kuu]

Re: The generation these days

Don't talk to children like you're a king, talk to them like you're a lawyer. Of course depending on their age group, you can't get too complicated, but anything by 12-16yrs old

I'm not talking about teens. Teen is too late man if you want to train your kids to be disciplined. You have to start since 3-4 years old.

[Aeni]

Re: The generation these days

Just because you have years on me doesn't win an arguement.

I don't think that's what we're talking about here. Of course, if you want to be a pompous asshole, go ahead and feel that way. But no one here is arguing about knowledge, etc.

You use stats and what have you, but are you a parent yourself? Do not try to talk and carry on like you know all when you haven't even experienced the other side of every conceivable angle to a discussion. Of course, then that's when having an open mind really makes it easier for a discussion to be civil and not get derailed into some pile of feces for everyone to get a whiff of.

I agree with TGM on issues regarding sexuality with children. We're not even talking about teenagers in high school, where the "norm" or consensus for most of these behavior is pretty typical for this demographic group.

Parenting is very important. It is the most abused and neglected "job" in the whole world. Discipline is used to instill respect as well as common sense. These two things are what schools and educators around the world cannot teach. This must be present in the home environment and be visible at all times. You can also talk about "decency" but that lies in the values at home and sort of falls into the common sense category.

For example, common sense will tell you that if you're dressed like a whore at the age of 12, your chances of being sexually assaulted or kidnapped (or both) is likely to increase by a large percentage. This has been proven time and time again by many studies, if people need "proof" or such nonsense to validate this, but common sense, however, should already have told you what you needed to know.

There seems to be a lack of common sense and sound judgement in many parents today. I think the media is partly to blame, but as the times has changed, so must parenting evolve to meet these challenges. Unfortunately, many parents are not fit to parent and, maybe because they loathed their own experiences as a child, have decided to do exactly opposite what their parents have done. This totally removes discipline from the household (or the equivalence in respect) and of course, when common sense is lacking, societal problems scale upwards dramatically.

And yes, I am a proud parent of a 4 year old girl. Which is why I OP'd this thread in the first place.

[Caspian]

Re: The generation these days

These are life situations. There are no right answers, only right situations and that's where parents mess up on.

And this would be the mindset that has begun permeating our cultural and is threatening to destroy it. "Well, I felt it was okay so it must have been. You can't put your morality on me!" Postmodernism at its best.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The generation these days

I have to say that I have not been one to conform to society. I was riding motorcycles at the age of 5 +. I started playing video games since they hit the market. I started watching anime when I started importing games. When computers came out, I thought I had died and went to heaven! I am not your typical Grandma and I never will be. I believe in being an individual and I encouraged my children to be also.........BUT when it comes from knowing right from wrong, good from bad, having morals or not, that is where I drew the line. My kids were always aware that it was ok to be an individual but you had to know when to conform also. There is a time and a place for everything.

And yes, I stick by my statements that molding a child takes a LIFETIME and not just starting when they start wanting their independence. Children go through phases. As babies they are totally dependent on us for everything. As toddlers, they learn to walk and do a few things on their own. Once they hit school age, the change really becomes more noticable as they learn many new things every day. Pre-teens still look for that bonding and closeness at times with their parents but are beginning to learn to get the intimacy they need from friends also. By the time they hit the teens, parents can pretty much kiss goodbye any dependency their children had on them and the only thing they can do is love them and hope the things they have taught them follow through with their actions now. If you start with your child as a baby teaching them and continue to teach them through the years, you will have children who will still test your resolve but who will understand that there are consequences for their actions when they do.

Parenting is the hardest job in the world. You are responsible for a life. That life is there for you to mold and nuture. The development of that life directly reflects on who you are as a person. A priest once said to me that one of the things he struggled with daily was that he was responsible for a person's soul. If he messed up, he had lost a soul and he felt deeply depressed by that. I told him that as a parent I am not only responsible for my child's soul but also for his life/well being and that loosing them both is more than I could ever bear.

[Jei]

Re: The generation these days

argg sorry Kuu I wanted to quote your message but i clicked edit again -.- my bad....

[Caspian]

Re: The generation these days

argg sorry Kuu I wanted to quote your message but i clicked edit again -.- my bad....

LOL, I think its getting a little late for Jei.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: The generation these days

I was having a nice discussion over lunch with a few co-workers several weeks back and that discussion has since bothered me.

One of the gals was talking about her recent trip to San Diego and how that reunion with her family went (She left SD when she was 17 and went back for the first time in 6 years to see her mom, step-dad and half-sister)

Somehow, the discussion focused on her half-sister's cousin. The girls are about 12-13 years of age. My co-worker was telling us a story about how the girls, although cousin, seem to bear physical appearances to long lost twins. However, their attitude and thinking were totally opposite each other. Basically, my co-worker portrayed her own half-sister as "white" and the half-sister's cousin as "black." (No racial overtones suggested or intended)

Probably biased, maybe.

Anyway, she was talking about how this cousin seems to be a loud-mouthed and obnxious brat and have a way of getting under people's skin. But that's not all there is to it...

This girl was purported to say things like, "I can't wait until I can 'shave' down there and wear thongs." Okay...

Not sure about everyone's experience here, but is this typical of young American teenagers everywhere? What is going on? That kind of thinking a generation or two ago would have the parent slap that mouth right off of the kid's face. Now, kids are getting older even sooner than ever before and innoncence is being shedded at an alarming rate.

What's going on in our society today?

Even now that's not typical.

Trying not to sound an old fart at 26 lol, you are right it is like this in the uk.

Kids this day have no respect for anyone. for instance in the Uk look at the amount of school stabbings we have now they are on the rise, now I know in the US you have many problems with shootingsa nd the like, but here in the Uk this kind of violence was unheard of. In the Uk gangs of teenagers are now moping the streets and are more violent towards people. As a fireman we attend many incidents started by kids and teenagers, and on occasions whilst trying to put out a fire we have been stoned and even had a brick through our fire applaicne window, we now have CCTV cameras in and on the fire engine to try and capture the culprits.

In the uk there is now a craze among certain aspects of kid and teenagers lives becuse they are bored called "Happy slapping" where a gang (this is the one that got on the news) kicked a male rider off his bike and started beating the crap out of him, while one person filmed it on their mobile (we have video mobiles here in the uk) the guy nearly ied becasue of his beating with severe head injuries and they distributed to their "mates" this video shoing there "acheivement".

I was int eh bus station 3 weeks ago and heard a 5 year old tell and old women to F off, I can tell you I was shocked. Half the problem is the aprents just don't care or just don't want to know, there is all this about broken families and poor families and the comments that i have heard "there just being streetwise" (beleive me it raised my eyebrow hearing what kids think as part of a community safety lecture we had to do)

Now I know alot of members here in this forum fall into this age group and may be saying shut the F up your old git, but that just proves my point. The world today is different then it as then and has become a more agressive and hostile place, your generation and mine needs to sort this out or we will all be living in hell.

I say this with good experience, one fo my fellow firefighters suffered major laserations to his face when teh brick went through the window. The kids parents said that "he would never do a thing like that" He got let off with a slap on the wrist because he was only 12. The same kid torched a manure heap that 15 fire crews including ourselves spent 28 hours dealing with, this let our countys fire cover be very low and 3 people died due to a fire engine not being able to respond quick enough.

You may say thats an isolated case. well i'm sorry to say it ain't this is the situation int eh Uk and its getting worse and I doubt you could deny anything like this happening aroudn teh world because you will be wrong.

For this generation please head my words. sort it out or it will only get worse in the future, how would you like your kids to be bought up in a more violent world than we are already in??

You're right to say its no isolated case.

I have to say that I have not been one to conform to society. I was riding motorcycles at the age of 5 +. I started playing video games since they hit the market. I started watching anime when I started importing games. When computers came out, I thought I had died and went to heaven! I am not your typical Grandma and I never will be. I believe in being an individual and I encouraged my children to be also.........BUT when it comes from knowing right from wrong, good from bad, having morals or not, that is where I drew the line. My kids were always aware that it was ok to be an individual but you had to know when to conform also. There is a time and a place for everything.

Absolutely correct.




My thoughts...

A great king once said, "everything is vain, all is vanity of vanities under the sun..." True, kids are the same today as they were a thousand years ago, they're just using different tools. Only difference is, they know they can get away with it today because of our lenient culture, thus they do more and won't learn from it since there is no consequence to their action or lack of action thereof. They cannot truly learn from such.

This is also the exact cause why the school-systems in America just plain suck. Kids have learned they can do whatever they want while in school, you don't want to do your homework? Alright, don't expect the school system to make you educate yourself. I don't care where you go, there is NOT a single school system in America you could not sue for putting your son/daughter in suspension.

You want to talk about education? Fine. But, until kids can realize there must be consequences for their actions/inactions and know such consequences will be enforced, there cannot be an education, nor can they learn from experience. Period.

[Jarre]

Re: The generation these days

Has anyone watched the series Supernanny?

Here in the Uk i have been shocked at what i have seen, kids as young as 4 punching parents, screaming when they don't get their own way, smashing things up, telling strangers where to go (i.e. FO) and what did the aprents do? Abosolutly bolloxs all, they just say don't do that and its ignored.

When i was younger If I did something wrong I got spanked at a low age, i was disiplined well, had strict times to be back, and was punished i.e. early to bed, grounded etc. if I stepped over the line. I learnt how to behave around people and what not to do, yes I did ocasionally go off the rails, but when i did, I knew about it!!!

Now parents can't even spank their kids (I know people will have debates on whether this would be suitable or not, but thats another thread) they can't touch them etc. because the kid can then complain to social services and the parents have their kids taken away (this is the case here in the UK) the old way of punishing (whether you think it was right or not) has disapeared. kids run riot and they know they wont get punished for it, because there are so few ways to punish them these days legally!!!

The PC world (not the computer firm!!) were in today is helping meld the society we are becoming. yes the "old ways" can be deemed "excessive" to todays standards, but for one thing it had a much higher success rate than the methods used today.

[Balfree]

Re: The generation these days

A bit unrelated but kinda not..

My parents used to be like to me:

"My parents allways beat me up whenever i did something wrong! you have no idea the good life you allways had!"

my reply allways finished the conversation...

"Why did you do 'wrong' things then? They didnt beat you up because they liked it, they did it to teach you a lesson, in common sense."