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  • Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

    This is an interesting thing that was posted on the WoW forums a bit ago and some of you might of happened to read it. Its basically an anti MMORPG thread, and was removed by the Mods over at the WoW forums for obvious reasons. I agree with hardly any of the posters reasons for quitting, alot of it is true though. Im gonna post it here for people that haven't seen it yet. None of it has phased me at all because everything their is kind of obvious, or a dumb reason to quit. Althogh it hasen't changed my opinions on playing mmo's or anything, it made like 5+ WoWers in my school that i know of quit. Im gonna post it for open discussion. This guy seems pretty smart and like he/she knows what hes talking about. Maby this will enlighted some people. ( or tell them the obvious )


    "I offer one final post. The textbox in which Blizzard asked for my reasons for canceling was small, and it felt truly heretical to place something as lengthy as this into a box that would simply be ignored by a customer service representative.

    So, I offer it here. If you do not care, and I suspect this covers the majority of you, prove it by choosing not to reply. Otherwise, admit your emotional attachment to a game that is strong enough to force you to rise to its defense, even in juvenile one liners aimed at those who do not agree with you.

    MMOs offer only one type of satisfaction; Advancement. They can't have what you do effect the world around you, as then others wouldn't be able to experience the world in the way that you have. The story then becomes a poor, static backdrop to anti-climatic melodrama.

    Player 1: "The giant is dead by my hands!"
    Player 2: "LFG - Giant killing"
    Player 3: "That giant just pwned me hardcore newbzors."
    Player 1: "I'll help you, just did it myself."

    It turns the world into a series of puzzle challenges that can be repeated continuously, and offers no sense of importance or even relevance in the world. If you quit, no problem, a dozen others will come to take your place and you will not be noticed by any that do not call you friend.
    MMO's are the largest scam in gaming. They're a digital stamp collection in which you ferret away items and numbers associated with your character to hold them in reverence against your peers. "Look at my uber [Super Demon Slaying Sword of Flaming Devil Power]!"

    There is all you will get from an MMO. An item to show your friends in a graphical checkbox, with the occasional tetris like experience in their myriad of dungeons you've explored a dozen times before.

    The NPCs in the world will forget you ever brought down the Emporer of Uber Doom, five times. The field you just walked through, slaying all manner of undead and dragging their bones to a man that will pay you for them - It will be newly inhabited by the same undead by the time you return. In fact, you'll likely see another hero there killing them, mindlessly repeating the task you just completed moments ago.

    Oh, no worries, MMOs have no trouble stripping you from the world in this manner to ease the newcomers, but they will stand unflinching in the face of criticism if you complain of their travel methods. "It's to immerse you in our world!"

    Why, of course it is. The fact that the lengthy travel time acts as a time sink, something you've undoubtedly become very familiar with if you've been playing the MMO for any time, is purely a coincidence. This is one explanation Ive seen for the irritating flight paths offered here in WoW, its for immersion. Uh huh, sure it is.

    The worst part of the deception that is known as an MMO? They keep your character. They keep your items. If you lose your internet connection, or they lose theirs, all of the satisfaction they have begrudgingly provided to you is taken away with no recourse.

    You cannot play in their world away from their servers on which you pay for. The world, and everything in it including your silly digital stamp collection, is theirs. In the worst act of final deception, they can take from you all the false accomplishment they've provided to you without recourse.
    MMOs are a scam. They're like heroin dealers. They'll trickle satisfaction to you in small doses to get you addicted, and then demand more and more of your time, which to them equates as subscription fees, to earn any further feelings of elation. They dangle objects in front of you that require ridiculous amounts of time, knowing that a few will go to unhealthy lengths to obtain it quickly, while the rest will labor for months, hopefully years, attempting to catch up.

    Consequences - college drop outs, loss of family time possibly ending in divorce, neglected children or jeopardized health - be damned, they'll have your money and that is all that they care about. They'll abuse the lore, abuse your favored class or play style, as much as they need to in order to ensure more subscription money.

    Until an MMO emerges that does not follow the time = reward philosophy, they will all fall under the category of narcotics dealer. All of them, regardless of which world setting they choose to package their drug.

    No MMO has come close to doing this yet. Each one of them simply coats the pills in a difference tasty substance, but all filled with the same poison that will leave you dissatisfied in the end if given a chance to really examine what you've been doing all this time. That is to say; unless you enjoy puzzles and graphical chat rooms to the point where the MMO has been enjoyable. I would be bold enough to say there would have been other experiences just as memorable and just as enjoyable available to you that would not have fed this evil industry, but that's just me.

    This game is one of the worst offenders. They are like a cigarette company that found out they could get away with lacing their cigarettes with crack at a later date, if they covered the nicotine with candy early on. They start you off providing quick and easy advancement. They tease you, making you feel as if no matter your playstyle, you can advance just as well as anyone else.

    Everyone feels the same sense of satisfaction. Some group up and tackle lower level dungeons together, while others grind away in happy solitude. Neither gains any real advantage over the other, and both grow addicted as they devour the candy covered nicotine.

    As they near the end game, WoW strips some of the candy away and replaces it with more potent nicotine. The player doesnt mind, its still got a sweet taste, and its feeding that nicotine addiction nicely.
    The end game arrives, and WoW shows its teeth. The candy is removed, and you have two choices of cigarette: Straight up, cowboy up nicotine sticks, or hardcore, crack laced nicotine sticks.

    Take your pick.

    They know youre going to: Youre addicted. There are a few industries that rely on addiction, and all of them are a bane. Cigarettes actively feed on it. Sure, you make the choice, but their revenue depends on your addiction. If you bought one pack a year, they wouldnt be wealthy. They need you to want to smoke, to need to smoke. They want you to feel pain when you try to quit. Sure, you may come to hate them, to hate cigarettes and the stench they surround you in when you smoke them, but youll smoke them anyway.

    MMO companies are no better. They hook you. They need to hook you to earn a living. They need you to play, to want to play and even need to play, for months or even years. They need you to pay that subscription fee every month. They design the game to addict you, and then keep you strung out like a heroine junky. They dont care what effect this behavior has on those prone to addictive or obsessive behavior. They only care that they earn revenue.

    You wonder, why was the PvP system here in WoW designed the way that it was? Novices in the forum can come up with better systems that provide more satisfaction to everyone involved.

    Not true. We cant come up with a system that has as much of a time sink or long term required commitment. Theyre designing crack for kids, not games for people. They want to addict you, whether the process of addiction amuses you as much as it could or not.

    Theyll scoff and say that theyre trying to provide a sense of accomplishment, of immersion and anything else they can come up with, but the truth is that the foremost goal is to addict you and keep you addicted.

    You, the player, are a pawn. You are a subscription fee. That is all. Dont pretend they have your best interest in mind. They dont. IRC provides a functional chat room, but without the ego boost of being able to show off phat lewt. I would remark as to what sort of mental activity this is, but I do not want to push the post to a point to where it deserves moderation.

    Enough of my rant. If you, Blizzard, truly care about why I cancelled, and why I would personally suggest that everyone cancel their subscriptions to this and every other MMO, this is the reason why. This is why I hit cancel on two accounts. I wont be your lemming or your pawn while you dish out substandard entertainment. If I wanted to be a collector, I would collect things of value that I actually own. I wont participate in your scam, or the scam of any other MMO company in the future.

    To the legion of Blizzard fans that are now pounding out their finely tuned responses with sweaty fingers and a furrowed, angry brow: More power to you. Youll find supporters of all manner of addictive substances, and addicts scrambling with fury to defend their drug of choice. I dont expect this to be any different."

    ~Discuss.~

    EDIT: this should be on the Video games forum, someone move it if they can plz
    Last edited by eriatarka; 01-22-2006, 04:28 PM.
    Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
    InuTrunks is just mad, because I ate his baby.

  • #2
    Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

    cool thread.

    i can see why that it'd get deleted off of the wow forums, or any forums for that matter.

    i think he's the poster of that message is ultimately right. if people base their accomplishments on the accomplishments they have achieved in an mmorpg, they may need to re-evalutate their own lives.
    observe the splendor of ping pong balls!

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    • #3
      Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

      nice read, true for the most part as well.The money your paying for an MMO subscription is like cable tv or internet bill.. you'll never see any of it again.. nor "hold" anything tangible in exchange for your monthly fee (although internet tangibles can be arguably considered as downloads and etc.)
      (ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ====【†】 BIBLE FIGHT !
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      • #4
        Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

        The problem with MMOs is not that they do this. It's the nature of MMOs.

        The problem with MMOs is that everybody gets caught up in it all.

        I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that if you don't get caught up in it, if you play at your own pace and do it how you enjoy, you'll never walk away from any MMO with a bitter taste in your mouth (except for The Matrix Online 'cuz it sucked).
        PSN ID - PaiPai Gamertag - PaiPaiMaster Steam ID: Pai Pai Master
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        • #5
          Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

          Originally posted by Pai Pai Master
          The problem with MMOs is not that they do this. It's the nature of MMOs.

          The problem with MMOs is that everybody gets caught up in it all.

          I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that if you don't get caught up in it, if you play at your own pace and do it how you enjoy, you'll never walk away from any MMO with a bitter taste in your mouth (except for The Matrix Online 'cuz it sucked).
          I'd have to agree with the all-knowing PaiPai here. If you don't let it suck you in and just learn to play it as a "game" and not your "life" then you will be fine. With the exception of games that just suck like Matrix online.

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          • #6
            Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

            dont forget WoW

            Double Post Edited:
            i dont know how bad matrix online is though. seems pretty terrible from what i read
            Last edited by eriatarka; 01-22-2006, 08:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
            Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
            InuTrunks is just mad, because I ate his baby.

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            • #7
              Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

              Originally posted by eriatarka
              dont forget WoW

              Double Post Edited:
              i dont know how bad matrix online is though. seems pretty terrible from what i read
              I despise WoW, but don't even get me started on that game.

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              • #8
                Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                Agreed, just like the smoking that was used as an example, MMO's can end up becoming the overwelming force in an individuals life. The thing is that even in life time=reward (well time and effort) and so the MMO companies have a correct read on people in general. It becomes a problem when *you* the player allow the MMO to take over your life. Me, do I think SE really gives a dam about me, no, not a chance, but I also dont mind paying my fee ever month because i do enjoy the game, i enjoy the people i have met, i have enjoyed the quests and i do enjoy the events that I choose to participate in.

                Me i have 1 very important rule that I follow, everything in RL comes first, friends family, heck making sure my apartment is clean comes before i sit and play. Now admiditly i do spend a lot of time online but it is by choice and because i have taken care of RL stuff well before hand. This is a hobby of mine, one that i enjoy, and 1 that i will enjoy for a long time.


                RNG67 BRD66 THF55 NIN35 WHM31 RDM35 WAR24 PLD30

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                • #9
                  Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                  Originally posted by bikkebakke
                  I'd have to agree with the all-knowing PaiPai here. If you don't let it suck you in and just learn to play it as a "game" and not your "life" then you will be fine. With the exception of games that just suck like Matrix online.
                  IMHO a better way to put it is "so long as you don't take it personally." My job involves admining an online RP chat. And I play FFXI while I work. Consequently, I'm on FFXI 8-10 hours a day, and I see the same thing in my chat as I do with FFXI.

                  There are casual players who play whenever.
                  There are the weekend warriors.
                  There are the people who play whenever they can.
                  There are people who play to the exclusion of everything else
                  There are people who are addicted.
                  There are people who aren't.

                  Out of all these types of people, some take the game with "serious" attitude, and some take the game with the "its only a game" attitude. You can do both and have fun. With five people in my household playing FFXI, I see a stange mix and match.

                  I take the game seriously; I dispise people who tell me "its only a game" when I get upste because that NM should be dead when I am. I get frustrated when I can't beat Promy-Holla seven times because someone else screwed up each time. Because its a letdown. Yes, I am addicted. But I have fun, and ultimately I never take it personally.

                  My roomates on the other hand take stupid crap personally. "OMG! You have a million! From harvesting? I NEVER get red moko or mugwort harvesting. <insert unrelated houshold drama and argument>"

                  No, this game is not my life. My girlfriend comes first. I come second. FFXI comes third because my work staff is so good I never have to do anything. Work comes third cause I set it up so it manages itself so I can play FFXI.

                  But - jokes about Japenese programers watching me play with thier hands hovering over a big red FU button aside - I try to never, ever take the game personally. If anything, playing seriously makes repeated defeats & jack!@#$es all the more worth while because I can raise above those and get my little personal victory.

                  Hell, I'd go so far to say that its like that for anything in life - and why I disagree with the OP; All companies are about money. Welcome to the corporate world. That is what they do. Thats why you have a job.

                  Furthermore, FFXI is not a need by economic definition, it is a want. A luxery item. And luxury items are made specificly to do what the OP'er argued against.

                  They are there to make you feel good. To show off. To flaunt success and say, "Hell yeah, n3wb; check it out, the company just baught me a brand new convertable. Hahahaha!" or "Yeah, I just baught myself a $350k lakside house." or "I have courtside season passes to the lakers this year."

                  OP suggests that applying it to a game is somehow wrong, but I'm curious... why? We are gamers. We are nerds and geeks. We are technophiles. But we're also people, and why the hell -shouldn't- we strut our stuff to our peers? Sports fanatics do it. Corporate giants do it. Dog breeders do it.

                  Simply put... it feels good to feel good. DUH! And someone will always profit of luxury items. Tis the nature of the world.

                  /ma "Stop Rant" <me>

                  So yeah. Just my 2cents.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                    I read the rant and the only response that came to mind was: "No duh."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                      Yep. That's true. I would think however it's about the same as watching television when you get down to it. I mean... you could subscribe hours to TV and cable bills and have nothing to show for it... except maybe conversation with a friend about the new "Sopranos". If you look at it from that standpoint anything could be a rip off... I mean... why do you think they keep dragging out soap operas? Because people genuienly think that the story is not yet told? No. Stay at home moms (or dads I guess) have nothing better to do. Does anyone in an industry that sells service likely care about their customers? I mean does insurance REALLY care? If they do, why do they up your rates when you get in an accident? Shouldn't they be concerned?

                      I digress, my point is - I doubt many services left in the world are doing it for the customer. If you enjoy it, fine. Settled, nothing else should matter.

                      I played WoW to 40... I was stung out until I got a mount, then I lost interest. It was odd, a complete 180, so here I am back to FFXI and I just got my subjob... no telling how much longer I'll stay (although I'm having fun at this point so hopefully a while). Once it gets tedious, I don't have an issue with quitting, so I dunno what that guy really means there.
                      =_=

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                        Seems to me like its a lot of huff n puff about an already known concept. All video games are about advancement. "Solve this puzzle to get to the next, drive that course faster to move on, defeat your opponent to reach the following fighter, talk to this person so you can move onward in the storyline". Give me a break, he's preaching something anyone who is playing video games should know. My guess (imho) is that he had a real downfall in WoW- for whatever reasons, and is hoping to take a stab @ Blizzard before he goes.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                          normally i try to read everything said by everyone before posting a reply to a topic. this time i wasn't able to bring myself to read the entire op, but here's my response.

                          the original poster of that list said that mmo's are like collecting an online postage stamp collection: it's something to do, but ultimately it does you no real good in the end. i guess he didn't understand why i play mmo's.

                          i play ffxi to save money. my reasoning is that if i wasn't playing this game, i'd be off doing something else that costs a lot more. it may be an online postage stamp collection, but with one difference: these "stamps" don't cost anything (unless you buy your gil or something, and even then it's not much, let's be honest...) but a cheap monthly fee.

                          i'm saving up to buy a house. and ever since i started playing ffxi, i've saved literally thousands of dollars a month, most of which i probably would have spent out of boredom on other hobbies. yes, online games are a hobby just as much as stamp collections are, but as far as hobbies go, mmo's are one of the cheapest ones around!

                          for that reason, above any other, ffxi is very important to me. it's my way to keep myself out of the bar, away from the auto parts store(lookling for a new toy) and off ebay. and what, prey tell, is wrong with that?
                          Last edited by aegina; 01-23-2006, 09:06 AM.


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                          • #14
                            Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                            I think the posters mindset of focusing on tangible gain is kind of warped. Sure the company’s interest in you stops with your credit limit but the majority of people don’t play a mmo with the expectation of walking away with any sort of empirical gain. People play for the social aspect. The sheer number of people who just sit in jeuno talking with their friends, using the game as a glorified chat program is proof enough of that. I know people have different mindsets on the issue but most people I’ve run into on FFXI are playing to interact with other people, well those id care to remember anyhow, the specifics of what their actually doing is largely inconsequential.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anti MMORPG / WoW Thread Removed From Official WoW Forum

                              Hmm do we forget that we play the video games to have fun? Who cares if it's online or offline, free or costly?

                              If we're having fun doing it, we're having fun. Plain and simple.

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