What makes us human?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What makes us human?

Emotions are semi-non-related due to the fact that almost all advanced organisms have the ability to "feel" It's the degree of it that becomes the factor that seperates us from other animals.

Exactly! Part of defining that is that we can add a complex language to our emotions. Love can be broken down into passion, intimacy, etc because we are able to define the emotion with language. Sadness can be broken down into despair, grief, etc. because again we can define the emotion with language.

[Caspian]

Re: What makes us human?

Exactly! Part of defining that is that we can add a complex language to our emotions. Love can be broken down into passion, intimacy, etc because we are able to define the emotion with language. Sadness can be broken down into despair, grief, etc. because again we can define the emotion with language.

The ability to define and describe intangibles.

[DarkSephiroth714]

Re: What makes us human?

our souls make us human i guess

[Kagerou]

Re: What makes us human?

Our souls make us human i guess

That's very open-ended.

Double Post Edited:

999 times out of 1000, when people do those awful things like murder or genocide, its b/c they somehow have deluded themselves into believing that what they are doing is different, that there is some sort of exception that makes it ok this time. Even Hitler honestly thought that he was bettering humanity. Make no mistake, I'm not defending Hitler in the slightest, just using him as an example. When people do evil things, they find ways of making their conscience feel better. I dont expect this to change your mind, but please read it and think on it for a little while. Thanks

Not really. People is incapable of killing another human being because of the way we were raised. Experience derived from childhood builds a moral standpoint (obviously influenced by ur peers) that gives u ur own boundary of right/wrong. People commit murder not because they feel it's justified but because

A: They have to (ex: wartime)
B: Lose their values (corrupted sense of right and wrong)

B does sound a bit like ur thesis except that in ur case, the murderer has a clear basis for commiting murder (for example ur Hitler example will mean that he took lives to maintain his values); B doesn't (as in they do it cause they completely lose their sense of moral judgment)

[Caspian]

Re: What makes us human?

A: They have to (ex: wartime)
B: Lose their values (corrupted sense of right and wrong)

A. Wartime is not murder, its killing. Two very different things.

B. If they lose the perception to determine b/w right and wrong then they are declared legally insane. Which goes back to my prevoius post where I stated that the only people who dont understand morals were the criminally insane.

[Kagerou]

Re: What makes us human?

Murder is killing. U need to explain it to me if u want to convince me that its two completely different things.

People can kill only when they have no other choice or when they lose their values even if its temporarly. That is what I meant by B: Insane people loses their values entirely, while "normal" people who commit murder is considered to have lost their "sense of morality" for a temporarly time (like killing someone in a fit of jealousy). It is no means a justification. They don't think logically in their heads when they kill, it's that moment of "morality distortion" that drives a man to kill, even if they are considered to be sane.

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: What makes us human?

What makes us human... oppose to the other animals, is simply our ability to make things complex. Laws, emotion, language(more so, the ability to communicate), and all those things have always existed in the animal kingdom since the time evolution deemed them neccessary for surivial. Humans are the smartest creatures on earth. They are also pack animals. I could go into a lot of detail, but I don't want to write an essay people. Like I was saying before, desire exists in all animals, but humans have twisted it and that is why they are people with so-called sick desires that do sick things.

[Macht]

Re: What makes us human?

Murder is killing. U need to explain it to me if u want to convince me that its two completely different things.

People can kill only when they have no other choice or when they lose their values even if its temporarly. That is what I meant by B: Insane people loses their values entirely, while "normal" people who commit murder is considered to have lost their "sense of morality" for a temporarly time (like killing someone in a fit of jealousy). It is no means a justification. They don't think logically in their heads when they kill, it's that moment of "morality distortion" that drives a man to kill, even if they are considered to be sane.

Aka. Temporary Insanity, still insanity by it's definition.

Much of the sadomasochist designs you can actually see with animals too though. Gorillas will kill chimps for fun or (not always and) food. Male cats are known to rape Female cats (Force them into submission), Lions will kill a Lionesses cubs in order to make her mate with him (In some cases killing his own cubs). Dolphins will kill a baby dolphin even if it's their own if the mother doesn't protect it. It's the protective efforts the mother takes, and the animosity of who the real father is in that the female generally mates with multiple males that generally prevent the male dolphins from always killing the babies.

It slips my mind at the moment but there are even animals that use torture methods to the female directly or relating to the female in order to get her aroused as well. If I really had to distinguish what differs us is simply the fact that humans in general have a less enough desire for food and sex that we seek other forms of entertainment. With this in hand and the fact that the opposible thumbs allow us to grasp and craft objects with the creation of the objects we basically falling back to a basic of territorial rights. With having to create territorial rights for an object that is now unique and unfound in nature we end up forcing ourselves into a creation of rules and morals to define territories.

The dogs and other animals I've had when fixed vs. not you can see a same difference between them. The fixed dogs I've had start seeking other methods to entertain themselves, get our attention, or other various things. Yes some end up just desiring food then and don't exibit this change. The ones that do though you can see quite intresting changes, they even seem to advance to point were they actually find methods to communicate. Our dogs have basically taught us when they want food, want to watch TV, want a treat, want outside to play, want outside to potty (They also have a litter box inside they know how to and will use, they choose at their own discretion which they want to use).

I guess more what I was trying to state is I don't doubt that under the right conditions another animal would not develop to steps we are at. We were just the first to achieve whatever condition it was that made us seek and invent things outside of natural existance, in turn developing morals and ideals that were outside of the natural existance.

This very point there of what I'm trying to state is the point also of what I was talking about were many religions use the soul as the defining factor. Stating that it was our soul that guided us and triggered the conditions to make us advance as we have. That's why I still state that the definition of what makes us human is our own belief of our soul to be unique in it having the influence to advance us beyond an animal. That's why I also state though that some religions dispute this as well with certain beliefs of reincarnation.

[Caspian]

Re: What makes us human?

People can kill only when they have no other choice or when they lose their values even if its temporarly. That is what I meant by B: Insane people loses their values entirely, while "normal" people who commit murder is considered to have lost their "sense of morality" for a temporarly time (like killing someone in a fit of jealousy). It is no means a justification. They don't think logically in their heads when they kill, it's that moment of "morality distortion" that drives a man to kill, even if they are considered to be sane.

I think in a way we're kinda talking about the same thing. Apart from the insane, when someone murders someone else, they almost never see what they are doing as wrong. 99% of people consider themselves to be good people, including the criminals. When they do murder, they twist it in their mind so that it doesnt conflict with their morality. I'd bet most of them if you asked them would say that murder is wrong. But when they did it, it was different. People find odd ways of convincing themselves of things when they really want to. "Murder is wrong, but this isn't really murder b/c the circumstances are different." People can convince themselves of all sorts of things. "He was sleeping with my wife, its not murder, he deserves to die." Happens a lot. Sometimes people just kinda lose it and forget their morals altogether (note: not determine their morals arent right, just get so angry that it becomes the last thing on their mind).

When we get to a place in society where we determine that all morals are subjective and shouldnt be imposed on anyone who doesnt agree, then we get to a very dangerous and self destructive place.

The difference b/w murder and killing (i.e. wartime) is very big, yet somewhat hard to put into words. I guess the best way I can put it is this: In something like wartime killing, you fighting to protect your way of life. You are defending yourself from an impending threat and protecting the sovereignty of your nation. Like killing in selfdefense, if someone attacks you in your home or on the street, and in defending yourself you kill them, then its not murder. You didnt decide for the attack to happen, you just did what you could to protect yourself when it happened. Now, if its something you take pleasure in when it happens, well then thats b/w you and God. Murder is something when you take someone's w/o just cause and by choice (I'm sure there are a few limited exceptions to this definition, but right now I cant think of any.). I know these are really bad definitions, but I hope it sheds some light on my line of thinking.

[Orpheausjr]

Re: What makes us human?

I think we need to stop thinking about what we are, and think about what we are doing and what needs to be done about it.like Khaeos said we are a virus.8^(

[DieselBoy09]

Re: What makes us human?

Commmmmmunist.

lol, is there something wrong with that? Its democracy with a established economic situation (although, slightly more tribelike, think more along the lines of a dissolved state, a harmony of people.)

I still think that if I wasn't what I am right now, I could raise a child to be "human" but yet would take pleasure in murder, torture and killing.
Insanity is just a defect in comparisson to mainstream culture, its along the same lines as deviance. Deviance isn't bad, and who to say that insanity truely is either. Think of a world of "insane" people breeding, constantly passing on the traits. I wonder what would come out of it, maybe functionality out of disfunction? Insanity is something I find very interesting. The nature of it, chemically or conditioned? What happens when it is left to run completely rampant?

I also believe that to truely understand what is "human" we will need the structure of today's society to collapse and erase what has been created. Only then do I think we could really observe things unique to humans, but even then, we would need a complete understanding of other animals, their language, thought processes, etc.... which till then, we're all just kind of guessing in the dark, atleast in my opinion.

Double Post Edited:
Also, I believe in evolution. I think most people believe in microevolution, its just hard to understand macroevolution. I personally find the idea of macroevolution complex, I think I would need to see it fully before I could put faith into it, but the same for creationism, I believe in a higher power, but that's for another discussion, this is humanity, not my god complex and the rammifications.

[Caspian]

Re: What makes us human?

Microevolution I could buy. Macroevolution and speciation are just pure B.S. Too much evidence against them to refute it. As for "needing to see it fully before putting faith into it", that may work for something scientific like evolution, but not for creation and God. When you have irrefutable proof that something exists, its nolonger faith, its a fact. But, like you said, its for another thread at another time. If you're interested in discussing it further send me a /tell.

I'll also agree, that without some sort of religous/spiritual belief, that its incredibly easy to view humans as nothing more than smarter animals. Its also easy to fall into despair about everything (part of where I think all the "humans are a virus" posts are coming from).

[DieselBoy09]

Re: What makes us human?

Hey now, don't make fun of my despair. Its a way of life for some of us. ^_~

[Byakko]

Re: What makes us human?

Answer is simply environment. If everyone was isolated, no one would walk + talk the same.

[ln14jr]

Re: What makes us human?

Curious to get some more opinions on this, so I came here! In your own opinion what do you think makes us human? Intelligence? Culture? Let me know what you think!

Didn't expect to see a philosophical question in a forum like this.

The early Greeks pondered on the idea of what makes us human. Humans have the ability to rationalize things and ideas. Our curiousty makes us unique. (But not only that) We attempt to discover the how's, what's and why's about everthing around us, including our existence. Furthermore, we study these things or ideas and try to apply it. Some animals can do the same thing. But animals have barriers that they can not overcome. Humans are different. We have the the innovative ability to overcome any and all barriers. It just takes time. If you look around us, you can see human ingenuity and innovation. Can an animal do this? Of course not. The fact that we are having this sort of argument is proof positive that we are human (Some less so than others).

Of course, this argument can bring up humans who suffer mental defects. Are they less human because of the defect? (I will not argue this point. I just brought this up for people to think about.)

And we go on to the question of morality, right and wrong. Human conscience, as some people call it, gives us the ability to understand what is "right" and "wrong." However, morality is relative and not trully universal. What is considered right in one society, may be considered wrong in others. Also there are perspectives to consider. Does one action of a person doing a "wrong" is "wrong" in all accounts? What I mean is this, if a poor man steals bread to feed his starving family, is he commiting a "wrong?" Or is he commiting a "right" because the ends justifies it. Yes, morality is more complex then it seems. Heck that is why we have debates on abortion and euthanasia (excuse my spelling). Which side is "right" and which side is "wrong?" (Now if I introduce a pscyhopath- one who lacks conscience to see right and wrong- to the argument, is he less human? I will leave that question for people to decide.)

And there are emotions and needs or wants... Humans and animals have them. We have to feed our needs. There is no question. Animals do the same. All humans are emotional (some more than others). We can feel happy, sad and angry. We are defined by our emotions and at the same time we are not. Animals for a certain extent have feelings as well. The only difference is that we can control our emotions. We can also control our needs or wants. Animals can not.

Finally, physical appearances.... Does this make us human? If that's the case there are some animals that share our very likeness to a certain degree (e.g. Chimpanzees and apes). Are these animals then are too, humans? Of course the answer is no. And this does not have to with DNA or the size of our brains (dolphins have larger brains). I believe what I have mentioned previously does.

So, that's my answer to the age old question.