AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

[Durahansolo]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

It says.

Yeah it just passed it. I figured it'd be there before Friday.

Saw it 4 times now. I keep asking people "Did you see Avatar?" and if they say no I take them. It makes me look less pathetic. lol

lol mom.

[Ketaru]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

SMH at the title, I'm not even going to read the article. As I was scrolling through google news awhile back, there was a similar title of an article pertaining to the movie "The Blind Side". Article title said something stupid like "Why 'The Blind Side' makes white people feel better about themselves." I had to shake my head because I didn't even want to find out the Author's possible rationale behind it lol.

I don't mind if people just want to sit back and enjoy the movie, and I think Avatar functions perfectly well as one of those movies. But I just came across something that put me back on that more antagonistic train of thought.

This "law" has been spreading across the internet about movies like Avatar.

Of all the varieties of irritating comment out there, the absolute most annoying has to be “Why can’t you just watch the movie for what it is??? Why can’t you just enjoy it? Why do you have to analyze it???”

If you have posted such a comment, or if you are about to post such a comment, here or anywhere else, let me just advise you: Shut up. Shut the fuck up. Shut your goddamn fucking mouth. SHUT. UP.

First of all, when we analyze art, when we look for deeper meaning in it, we are enjoying it for what it is. Because that is one of the things about art, be it highbrow, lowbrow, mainstream, or avant-garde: Some sort of thought went into its making — even if the thought was, “I’m going to do this as thoughtlessly as possible”! — and as a result, some sort of thought can be gotten from its reception. That is why, among other things, artists (including, for instance, James Cameron) really like to talk about their work.

Now, that doesn’t mean you have to think about a work of art. I don’t know anyone who thinks every work they encounter ought to only be enjoyed through conscious, active analysis — or if I do, they’re pretty annoying themselves. And I know many people who prefer not to think about much of what they consume, and with them I have no argument. I also have no argument with people who disagree with another person’s thoughts about a work of art. That should go without saying. Finally, this should also go without saying, but since it apparently doesn’t: Believe me, the person who is annoying you so much by thinking about the art? They have already considered your revolutionary “just enjoy it” strategy, because it is not actually revolutionary at all. It is the default state for most of humanity.

So when you go out of your way to suggest that people should be thinking less — that not using one’s capacity for reason is an admirable position to take, and one that should be actively advocated — you are not saying anything particularly intelligent. And unless you live on a parallel version of Earth where too many people are thinking too deeply and critically about the world around them and what’s going on in their own heads, you’re not helping anything; on the contrary, you’re acting as an advocate for entropy.

And most annoyingly of all, you’re contributing to the fucking conversation yourselves when you make your stupid, stupid comments. You are basically saying, “I think people shouldn’t think so much and share their thoughts, that’s my thought that I have to share.” If you really think people should just enjoy the movie without thinking about it, then why the fuck did you (1) click on the post in the first place, and (2) bother to leave a comment? If it bugs you so much, GO WATCH A GODDAMN FUNNY CAT VIDEO.- Josh Wimmer (Moff)

It's pretty angry, but I think he's got a point. And I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that people are talking about Avatar in this way. That anybody talks about it this way at all implicitly says something:

We think this movie could have a substantial influence on its viewer.
or
We think this movie says something about what our culture thinks is entertaining.

I left pretty negative comments about Transformers in another thread, the one about the Karate Kid remake. When people discuss that movie, people wonder if it is a symptom of everything that is wrong with the entertainment industry (over-bloated budget, wanting of a decent story, franchise-oriented, dumbing down youth, etc.). And that's just the sort of discussion that I'm sure James Cameron would not have wanted for Avatar. I bet he's delighted that people look at Avatar and debate things like imperialism or environmentalism.

[DakAttack]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

All that quote says is "I don't know the different between critical thought and agenda-furthering spin".

[cidbahamut]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

Oddly enough I've considered myself to be an advocate of entropy to some degree for many years.

I agree that there's plenty of ideas to pull out of Avatar and it could make for some good debate, but it's not the sort of film that initially lends itself to that sort of inspection. It is a spectacle first and foremost. If you want to get to the underlying philosophy you need to go in with that approach in mind, which is not the default for such a film. It can be done, but it takes a conscious decision on the viewer's part, which will likely not be something the majority of the audience is willing to do.
As a movie-goer, if I want to pick apart deeper meanings of a film I'm going to gravitate toward something that's more along the line of The Seventh Seal, which provides more material to work with up front and is designed as something to be interpreted and debated rather than a spectacle film.

Again, there's no reason you can't approach these two films in ways different from their design, but it requires going against the flow and people tend to take the path of least resistance. That is why you will see people drooling over Avatar as a shallow but fun filled experience more often than you will see someone trying to analyze it. Nothing's wrong with either approach, it's just that one is more common because it's easier for most folks.

[Ketaru]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

All that quote says is "I don't know the different between critical thought and agenda-furthering spin".

No, what that quote says is:

"If you really don't care about thinking deeper about it, why do you even bother replying or even bother reading what other people have to say about it?"

If you really have a problem with other people trying to look deeper into it, just shut up and stay out of the discussion is what the quote is about.

In fact, I agree with many people. I think people give Avatar way too much credit in its ability to act as propaganda for a viewpoint, whether it's about imperialism or environmentalism. Nobody is going to walk away from Avatar saying it changed their life or made them seriously think about their own biases. Notice how none of that was praise for the movie? Because I essentially said: Why are people talking about the themes in this movie? There is just no substance it.

But I also think that that if other people want to talk about racist ideas in the movie, and I don't want to talk about it, it's as simple as just not clicking on "Leave Comment". None of those people that said "You're thinking too hard about it. Just enjoy the movie" were forced to leave input or even read the article if they're truly so disinterested.

As a movie-goer, if I want to pick apart deeper meanings of a film I'm going to gravitate toward something that's more along the line of The Seventh Seal, which provides more material to work with up front and is designed as something to be interpreted and debated rather than a spectacle film.

People don't necessarily have to approach commercial movies looking for ideas and themes in them. What they can do is approach them by asking "What does it say about us as a culture if we find this sort of thing entertaining?" There's a reason other countries in the world think Americans are closed minded and stupid. It might have something to do with the pop media we export. And make no mistake. We export a lot of it and it kind of looks like this.

[DakAttack]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

They're not trying to stifle thought in general, just the thoughts of the biased.

Popular culture is exploitative. What kids like is almost down to a science, so why not sell that? Other than cultural differences, kids everywhere are mostly the same. They like to think they're unique, important, and that they can accomplish anything. They also like to think school lunches can break out into song and dance at any moment. They don't understand how it requires some degree of hivemindedness to accomplish.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

I see these posts and wonder.. how did THAT conversation get started?

[cidbahamut]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

People don't necessarily have to approach commercial movies looking for ideas and themes in them. What they can do is approach them by asking "What does it say about us as a culture if we find this sort of thing entertaining?"

It's the same principle really. Both require the audience to make an effort to analyze the movie beyond the spectacle presented on the surface.

[Mezlo]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

I don't mind if people just want to sit back and enjoy the movie, and I think Avatar functions perfectly well as one of those movies. But I just came across something that put me back on that more antagonistic train of thought.

This "law" has been spreading across the internet about movies like Avatar.

It's pretty angry, but I think he's got a point. And I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that people are talking about Avatar in this way. That anybody talks about it this way at all implicitly says something:

We think this movie could have a substantial influence on its viewer.
or
We think this movie says something about what our culture thinks is entertaining.

I left pretty negative comments about Transformers in another thread, the one about the Karate Kid remake. When people discuss that movie, people wonder if it is a symptom of everything that is wrong with the entertainment industry (over-bloated budget, wanting of a decent story, franchise-oriented, dumbing down youth, etc.). And that's just the sort of discussion that I'm sure James Cameron would not have wanted for Avatar. I bet he's delighted that people look at Avatar and debate things like imperialism or environmentalism.

The post you sighted here screams "I'M A RAGING A$$HOLE AND I THINK I'M SMARTER THAN YOU! NO REALLY! I'M AN A$$HOLE! A BIG ONE!"

[Ketaru]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

Something wrong with that?

Nobody has said he is wrong yet though. If somebody is truly so disinterested in discussing the movie, why even bother leaving a comment? Once you leave say something, you're asking for a response. Believe it or not, some people are actually entertained by talking about movies in this way. Their talking about it isn't getting in the way of your enjoyment of it, so why get in the way of how they enjoy it?

The only reason anybody would leave such a comment is that they're invested in Avatar and they're getting defensive about it. So you know, they should stop pretending something about the article didn't get to them. Because it obviously roused something for them to want to try to put the breaks on the discussion about it.

[Mezlo]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

I love talking about movies, I just hate it when people let their analytical mentality get in the way of enjoying a good movie. Talk about it, analyze it, review it, but please let yourself enjoy it...

[Ketaru]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

But the thing is other people talking about it in an article that is specifically meant to rouse thoughts on a hot button issue shouldn't be getting in the way of other peoples' enjoyment. And it obviously isn't; Avatar is still in theaters, is still regularly sold out well into its run, and is praised by all but the most contrarian of critics.

If these guys were going around trolling Avatar forums and telling people it's a bad movie because of this and that and this, this wouldn't be an issue. The over analyzers are in the wrong. But what's going on here is people seeing an article title, "Avatar+Hot Button Issue" and they can't help but try to put the breaks on it because apparently they're just that defensive about Avatar.

It's like discussions about game mechanics in Final Fantasy XI and job balance. Somebody would be complaining about what they view as a deficiency in their job. Other jobs start coming in and start playing the Oppression Olympics to see who has it worse (I'm sorry to say BSTs are often guilty of this, "You think you have it bad? My job blah blah"). But the only thing more irritating than that is the guy who comes in and says:

"^^ Come on, it's just a game. We're all in this together. I play for fun, just enjoy it for what it is :D"

The thing I like most about this forum, compared to say Allakhazam or KillingIfrit, is that people know better than to pull that kind of thing here.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

When you go to an art museum, you are not going there to sit and analyze every single painting. You are going there for enjoyment...entertainment. It's the same for a movie. You go there for enjoyment and entertainment first and foremost. If you take away a bit more than that then you got even more bang for you buck.

Also when I go to an art museum and I see, lets say, an abstract painting and you see the same one, we may both see something totally different. I may see a butterfly and you might see a flower. Now I might not like butterflies and think the paintings shit for that reason but you might adore flowers and just love it. Who's right? Who's wrong? Thats the issue I have with movies. It's subjective to the individual and what they like. I LOVED AVATAR. Now I understand not everyone did and I also understand that there was also a bit of a theme to the movie which might be why some people didn't like it. For me I look at the movie for what its supposed to be first and foremost....entertainment. Just as I may look at that picture, and even though I don't like butterflies, I would probably think "its nice but...". I don't mind if people do that. "Avatar was pretty and entertaining but...." That's fine. But when people sit there and go "Oh that movie just sucked. I am so sick of people trying to stuff their ideals down my throat. And don't tell me to just enjoy the movie for what it is because its a big shitty piece of propaganda...blah blah blah"

There is a way to express your thoughts and opinions and get solid feedback and then there is jamming it down peoples throats. Josh Wimmer telling me to STFU when I dislike people that do that is jamming it down my throat and he can stick it up his ass.

[Mezlo]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

Josh Wimmer telling me to STFU when I dislike people that do that is jamming it down my throat and he can stick it up his ass.

Indeed. He might not have room though, TGM. Seems like Josh Wimmer already has alot of stuff shoved up there...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: AVATAR (Not to be confused with The Last Airbender)

Indeed. He might not have room though, TGM. Seems like Josh Wimmer already has alot of stuff shoved up there...

*snicker* Indeed!