Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

That article is somewhat misleading. Very misleading, actually.

And those quotes they took from Grant Morrison were taken from quotes at a past convention and twisted to make is sound like they intended to kill Bruce Wayne and end him as Batman. And yet, mysteriously, Batman re-emerges in Final Crisis. They don't say if its Bruce Wayne or not, though he seems to have knowledge only he would have.

The final fate of Bruce Wayne as Batman is actually supposed to be revealed as of the end of Final Crisis. Morrison said as much himself and he's been writing both projects. For now, the Batman is just plain A.W.O.L and DC has not said what the reasons for that could be and they've done a good job at not revealing what really happened in this issue.

This is unlike Marvel, which has no self-control. "Which X-man is going to die?" Well let's just look around the other books and check. Oh... its Kitty Pride." We just don't know what really happened to Batman except that somehow, there's a Batman in Final Crisis.

In fact, DC went so far to delay the release of Batman #681 to ensure nothing would be spoiled with the rest of the DCU storylines. Even Final Crisis was delayed because of it.

Spoiler section

That panel is only showing part of what happened. He was not gunned down in that shot, Batman has kevlar protecting him. Both this Doctor William Hurt and Batman are assumed to be dead after their altercation on the helicopter leads to an explosion.

Dr. Hurt claims to be Thomas Wayne and says that Joe Chill was hired to gun down Bruce and his mother all those years ago, but Chill lost his nerve and couldn't bring himself to kill the child and shot Thomas Wayne instead.

Bruce doesn't buy this, claiming Hurt to be some other associate of his father's, both of whom appeared in a movie together a lot time ago called "The Black Glove."

Additionally, Hurt reveals that he's made many false documents available to the media and that if Batman does not join his group - also called the Black Glove and themed after the movie (movie about super-rich gamblers that play games with people's lives - that these documents will be released. These documents allege that Thomas Wayne was an alcoholic that beat his wife, that Martha Wayne was a herion addict, that they both participated in orgies and, finally, that Marth had and affair with Alfred and that Alfred is really the father of Bruce Wayne.

There's more behind it, too, but Bruce refuses to join and after attacking Hurt on the helicopter, it shortly explodes afterward. Batman is nowhere to be see except in rumor for six months after.

Nightwing is seen recovering the cape and cowl from the roof of Arkham Asylum after the incident.

Also, Talia Al Ghul was on the scene when they found the wreckage and presumably has been putting all her resources into hunting down Black Glove members since.

Additionally, while the Black Glove took over Arkham Asylum to trap Batman and ruin him, they chose to employ the Joker as part of their plot. While the Joker initially humors their invitation just as an opportunity to fight Batman. After Batman's "defeat" the Joker places a wager that the Black Glove didn't account for every possibility and that Batman will spring loose from their deathtrap and hunt them all down.

"every single time I try to think outside his toybox, he builds a new one around me. apophenia. i've literally been driven in.sane. trying to get him to loosen up...

... now you're in his box too. you can never prepare for the unexpected. the well-timed punchline. the wild card. the devil is double is deuce, my dear doctor. and joker trumps deuce...

pleased to meet you. admire your work but don't. don't call me "servant." i'll collect my winnings from all of you, in due course. heheheh..."

So we're left with Bruce presumed dead, nowhere to be seen for several months. Talia and Joker both already sworn to hunting down the remnants of Black Glove themselves. Joker was caught shortly after his escape, though, by the police after being run off a bridge. But he probably gets out at some point since another Black Glove member is found six dead months later.

Also just as a note, both the Nightwing and Robin comic books are ending thier runs as of their February issues. That brings a lot more mystery to what's going on here. They've both been going strong as solo comics for over a decade now with no reason to cancel their run unless DC has plans for one of them to succeed Bruce as Batman.

But we won't know for certain until after the events of Final Crisis.

Just to note, R.I.P wasn't a crossover like Knightfall, but rather self contained storylines that take place before, during and after the incident with The Black Glove.

Detective Comics tells a prequel R.I.P story, involving Hush and Catwoman. Hush, hearing about this Black Glove group, wants to beat them to the punch since he's always hated Bruce Wayne. He knows the secret, but would rather have a private war with Wayne, assume his identity, retire Batman and assume Wayne's fortune and leave Wayne for dead.

Robin's R.I.P arch deals with his search for Batman and runs parallel to the story in Batman.

Batman's comic features the main Black Glove storyline.

Nightwing's R.I.P story takes place after the incident and deals with his confrontation with Two-Face and dealing with not knowing what happened to Batman.

Finally, there's Batman and the Outsiders. This runs slightly parallel and then after the incident. Seems the Black Glove had it in for them as well, because they successfully hatch a plot that disbands the Outsiders and leaves Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) to put the group back together.

All this leads up to a new storyarch called Batman: Last Rites. Supposedly, its a retrospective of Bruce Wayne's life as Batman and that's our lead-in to the happenings with Batman as of Final Crisis.

[Caspian]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

Kinda what I figured. One thing I've learned from comics is that nothing is permanent. I remember people shitting bricks because Bane broke Bruce's back and wasn't Batman anymore. It always ends up being the people who nolonger read the comics that freak out and assume its finalized. I believe the same thing happened when Joker killed Robin and Superman died.
My money is on Bruce Wayne being back as Batman.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

Well... the Joker did kill Robin. He killed Jason Todd. Tim Drake is currently Robin, that's not a reversal, Tim Drake simply replaced Todd and Todd replaced Dick Grayson as Robin.

As for Superman, yeah, they brought him back, but he was dead for a whole year of multiple comicbooks. His revival was intentional, they just wanted to rejuvenate the depth of the character. See, aside from Krypton blowing up, he's had a great life devoid of a lot of tragedy. Most recently, they finally killed off Jonathan Kent, murdered by Brainiac and along the same time, found a load of Kryptonians that survived Krypton and want to inhabit part of the earth. Over 100,000.

There's a catch-22 already attached to that. They survived in a bottle city like Kandor. I'll leave it at that, if you know about Kandor, you know what I mean.

As for the outcome of R.I.P - I do think Bruce will be back, he's just to brilliant of a mind to kill off. I do think, however, that someone will assume his place as Batman in the long term.

Lots of other heroes have passed the torch to another character, its just that Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman are so iconic within DC that its difficult for them to do it. Batman, however, is the most practical of the three to have a successor and there have been plenty of potential characters to do it for years.

[Caspian]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

I read they brought Jason Todd back several years ago as a villain. I think I read something about him being brought over from another timeline or some such crap, can't remember for sure, though. I'd have to look it up. They should really leave all the alternate timeline/universe crap to Marvel. It gets way too complicated, way too quickly. Hell, even Hal Jordan is the Green Lantern again.

I will say this about Joker killing Jason Todd: I don't think it was their original intention to ever bring him back, I think they just thought of it years later and thought it would be a good arc.
Barbara Gordon is still paralyzed, right? I think that hasn't changed.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

Barbara Gordon is still paralyzed, she is now Oracle and a very influential force within the DCU.

And yeah, it was a Jason Todd from another Universe, it think. A result of Superboy-Prime's retcon punch.

A multiverse is usually an easier way to explain away some odd inconsistencies that otherwise exist. DC goes very far to make the multiple universe thing feel plausible. Its a fun way of paying homage to their history and all the other universes they create, such as the Kingdom Come universe or Tangent universe.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

Kitten, I'm watching a program right now called "Marvel Super Heroes Guide to New York City" and I thought of you. Its actually very cool where the creators of Spiderman, Captain America, Dr. Strange, Daredevil, etc. all talk about buildings and areas in New York that influenced them. If you are interested, here is a bit torrent link for the show. This is a HD (720p) version and runs about 1.2 GB:

http://www.mininova.org/get/2044342

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

Final Crisis #6 hits the shelves this Wednesday, which will supposedly reveal the final fate of Bruce Wayne as Batman.

Batman R.I.P recently transitioned to the "Last Rites" storyarch in the Batman comic, which reflects on Bruce's career as Batman as well as what became of him since Final Crisis #2.

Putting it all together...

R.I.P takes place about six months before the events of Final Crisis. During part of that time, Bruce Wayne has vanished off the face of the earth and Batman is nowhere to be seen. It isn't known where he was or what he did (which will make for great filler stories down the road, I'm sure), but he does re-emerge.

All the false documents regarding his parents, Alfred and such did make it to pring through the media thanks to William Hurt and the Black Glove. Of course, nothing is said of him being Batman, but Bruce is painted a schizophrenic, his parents as drug addicts and Alfred as having an affair with Martha Wayne, which throws Bruce's parentage into question.

All lies, of course, but that's sort of the point.

In any case, the Justice League has need of Batman and he's called in what could be his last, greatest case.

The New God Orion (Darkseid's son), has been found murdered on Earth. No entry or exit wound from the bullet, but the trauma matches that of a bullet shot through the brain. A bullet is found buried in the ground - a bullet matching the pattern of the damage - but tests show the bullet to be 50 years old.

Batman surmises that Orion was killed by a bullet travelling backward through time. Before he is able to investigate further, he's subdued by one of Darksied's cronies and tossed into a Boom Tube, transported to a secret location.

Yeah, this is a pretty cosmic story for Batman.

Seems the recently-reborn Darkseid and his minions have plans for Batman. During his captivity, The Anti-Life Equation (basically something that turns people into mindless slaves to Darkseid) is broadcast globally and a the world goes Resident Evil. Those that have escaped hearing the equation are hunted down by enforcers and yada, yada, yada they try to convert them to being slaves to Darkseid or they have to die.

Lots of other stuff happens, but back to Batman. The bad guys want to take Batman's DNA, his memories and use them to create an unstoppable human army. Lots of flashbacks ensue while they try to transfer his memories to the clones.

Turns out Batman's memories are just a tad too much for the clones, they start clawing their eyes out because they can't handle the magnitude of stress and the bad guys declare the experiment a failure and seal up the lab. Batman gets loose and probably hunts those guys down and now resumes his case to solve Orion's murder and probably help save the world from the apeshit state it went into since he was captured.

Of course, this isn't really saying too much about what's going on in Final Crisis, but that's a lot to take in.

Where Batman's adventure ends will be known this week.

And before anyone cries "retcon" - while that's always possible - it does look like they're pointing toward a successor of some kind to Bruce Wayne.

For one, Nightwing, Robin and the Birds of Prey comics will all be cancelled this year.

Second, an "unknown" character has assumed the name "Nightwing." The Nightwing name has been used before elsewhere in the DCU, in fact, its nothing new to see a hero named Nightwing in Superman comics, but Nightwing is usually Dick Grayson (formerly the first Robin). This Nightwing appears in the "New Krypton" storyarch and while he isn't really that subtle about who he is, they haven't really admitted it either. But its totally Conner Kent (aka Superboy, who debuted in 1994's "Reign of the Supermen" storyline). No one advertises their powers as much as Superboy (well, aside from Spiderman).

With someone out there as Nightwing, that could mean Dick Grayson takes over. Wouldn't be the first time, he stood in after Bruce relieved Jean Paul Valley from being Batman. But then, the gig was too intense for him.

All this leads into another storyline to see who takes over as Batman. Yada yada yada. Whatever they do, I hope they stick with it for a while. I mean, they did keep Barry Allen dead for twenty-four years before retconning that this year.

[Feba]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

No comment on The Amazing Spiderman #583?

[ShepardG]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

BBq,

I try to keep up with the classic marvel and dc's, x-men, GreenLantern, Avengers, but i find myself leaning toward the more ... Graphic novel based stuff, as I don't really collect anymore. I don't know really what your prefrence's are but I'll recomend these.

Pride of Baghdad standalone
Based on the story of 3 Lions that escaped from Saddam Hussein's zoo in 2003, when America started bombing his palace area's. (having personally walked through the zoo, 5 years later, and then reading the story was...strange) The actual event's are this, The Lion's escaped, and having never been in the wild were starving and hungry. After 6weeks when US ground forces captured the palace, and surrounding cities, the lions were encountered by a patrol, and having not ate in some subbstantial amount of time, they were feral and hungry and the US patrol had to shoot them. The story itself, is very...comic book style, with the lions having names, and histories, and fighting an "Evil Bear" that had also escaped the zoo. It has alot of underlying adult themes such as right and wrong, and all the gray area inbetween.

Marvel's Punisher MAX series
Very adult, and very graphic, language, and images wise. Start with the short graphic novel that explains Frank Castle's tour through vietnam, and where his punisher alter-ego stem's from. Very Very good.

Watchmen standalone
I'm sure/hope you've read this, and anyone else who might be interested in these books should make sure to take a good afternoon and read this in detail. It will open your eyes to some of the more serious questions that have to do with humanity's view of ... their place in the universe. Arguably the greatest piece of story telling in the past 75 years, and that is including all mediums of fiction, not just comic books.

Preacher 9 part Graphic novel series, and I think also issue by issue
Awesome garth ennis comic, A southern preacher is blessed/cursed with "The word of God" essentially granting him the power to tell anyone to do anything, including challenge God himself. God freaks, disappears and the preacher, his love intrest and their best friend (a real life vampire) start out on a jorney to find out why god disappeared. Humorus, and also very emotional.

Ex Machina Series, collected into graphic novel series
A new york sanitary work is called out to investigate a strange glow near one of the bridges leading into manhattan (sp). An incident occurs and he is gifted with what is believed to be an alien symbiote...thing... that allows him to talk to machines and basically control all things electronic or mechanical. (including stoping the hammer of a pistol from moving and killing him.) As I was reading through it, what really got me was 3/4's of the way through the 1st graphic novel, The hero is upset about his lot in life, and his friend is trying to console him, and he retort's with "Why wasn't I able to stop the first plane!" and The next image is of the 2nd World Trade Center still standing, with a beam of light in the place of the first, which was destroyed when terrorist flew a plane into it...on September 11, 2001. I appreciated the mix of having this awesome, mysterious power, and dealing with it, in very human ways.

Y: The last man Series, Collected into graphic novel series
Guy wakes up, and he's the last living human male on the planet. Women are fine. The story is about him trying to figure out what happened, why he survived, and how the world can be fixed.

The Living Dead Series, Collected into graphic novel series
Black and white comic, about ...what else, zombies! Very, very well written. Multiple main characters with differing personalitys. and zombies....lot's of zombies. Basically a story of these characters strugle to survive.

Marvel MAX: Supreme Powers (I think that's the name) and I don't know if it was a series or just a 3-5 Graphic novels
Basically an new superhero universe, does contain nudity, blood, language.
An alien craft lands on earth and of course the american goverment exploits it. It's arrival basically starts a series of events that cause different super hero's/villian's to apear. On board the craft is an alien that takes the shape and form of a newborn baby child. The government appoints two "agent's" to start new lives together and raise the child/alien as their own. of course the pump american propaganda into his brain as soon as he can wear diapers and for good reason, he's basically a superman type character. This is just one of the more promenint storylines, but there are 5 or 6 main characters each their own storys and what not. Very good, but from all my searching, somewhat short.

I can't think of any others off the top of my head but I'm sure there's more. Aliens: Genocide is a great aliens graphic novel. Hope you check em' out, I don't think you'll be disapointed.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

The reprinted the first issue of Watchmen a couple weeks ago to hype the upcoming film. They're not reprinting each comic, its just the first one they're reissuing.

Since I didn't really know much about Watchmen, I decided to pick it up. Thumbing through it, it looked like the lamest thing ever, but when I got home and read it I was impressed with the delivery of the story. I especially liked the Under The Hood "book" excerpt, which helped add to the story as well.

I'm planning to pick up the collection soon so I can get the whole story.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

I tried to get my son to read Watchman but it was a no go......reading is too much effort I guess. So then I found the Watchmen Motion Comic by DC and THAT he would do. LOL If anyone is interested you can d/l it here:

Search results for watchmen motion comic - Mininova

You'll need a bt client. I reccomend:

Torrent - The Lightweight and Efficient BitTorrent Client

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Comic Book Discussion - Good Reads?

What happened to Batman

He's dead.

I had called this elsewhere and seeing as the New Gods play heavy into Final Crisis - as does writer Grant Morrison - I somehow figured that it would take the most evil force in the DC Universe to kill humanity's best.

So yeah, Darkseid is the one who kills Batman. Not really in Batsy's usual gallery of rouges, but given the situation of Final Crisis and Morrison's history with Batman, the Justice League and the New Gods, it all comes together.

But of course, Batman doesn't go down without turning things in humanity's favor against Darkseid - he exposes Darkseid's weakness.

The reason I called this is, about 12 years ago, Morrison wrote a story called "Rock of Ages" (still out there in paperback). One of the subplots to the story was Aquaman, Green Lantern and The Flash get transported to the future and into their future bodies... in an Earth that's conquered by Darkseid.

And along the way, they find Batman, Wonder Woman, The Atom, Conner Hawke (2nd Green Arrow) and others. They put up a final resistance against Darkseid and along the way, Batman's plan to weaken Darkseid's army succeeds. For this, Darkseid again kills him with his Omega Beams.

The Omega Beams, as Morrison describes them in his New Gods stories, condemn the target to a multitude of failed existances on top of being burnt to a crisp at the end of them. The present end is they just look torched, even though they're alive and suffering a miserable life in the past somewhere.

Putting it all together again, Morrison also tends to write Batman as the kind of guy who has an answer for everything and can find his way of anything. Just because he's been condemned to a series a failed lives doens't exactly mean he's dead and gone for good.

But in the meantime - and I think this will stick for a while - they'll be moving on the storyline where a successor is eventually named.

Word is Tim Drake's life as Robin may be up for grabs as well. He may retire or take on an new alias, but that hasn't surfaced yet.

DC's candidates for a successor to Batman are:

Nightwing (aka Dick Grayson, the first Robin)
Robin (Tim Drake)
Two-Face (he's been having good streaks at times)
Hush
Catwoman
Huntress
Batgirl

Bet on Nightwing, though. While he's not darkly obsessive like Bruce Wayne and isn't a know-it-all, he's got the moves, the talent and the support. Not to mention there's certain superhero who's jacked the Nightwing name for his own personal use.

Hush and Two Face are generally evil, Two Face has his justice moments, but always reverts. Hush wanted to bring ruin to Bruce Wayne and both him and Alfred, so he proabably won't be welcome in the Batcave.

Huntress and Catwoman - not men. Also, the Batwoman gig was already taken. Batgirl, too. They have their own gigs and they like them anyway.

Batgirl Cassandra Cain (Barbara Gordon's still wheelchair bound as Oracle) definately wouldn't replace Batman, but she would definitely make a great Robin. She lacks the technical know-how and detective skills of Tim Drake, but has a great backstory and was trained to be an assassin by birth, a life she is trying hard to part with. This chick can take a bullet and not flinch - she's not a cheery, smartass sidekick, but she would be a kickass one.

Plus, she and Nightwing recently settled their differences, so that could be an opportunity.

And in Lame news: Best Marvel could do to compete with Batman's end in Final Crisis this week was put up a Spidey comic with President Elect Obama in it. The Savage Dragon just called, Mr. Parker, he did that earlier this year.