Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

[jwalton]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

it's just going to be another system either as powerful or marginally stronger than the PS3

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Last gen PC hardware outclasses the PS3. For all the hype that Sony dishes out on the console, if those same developers really tried on PC hardware, or hell, Xbox 360, some really impressive stuff could be pulled off. Still remember when Devil May Cry 4 was first announced for PS3, PS3 morons were screaming at how amazing it looked and that the true power of the console was coming to fruition, and now we have a 360 port that looks identical.

It's funny that you mentioned floating point calculations in reference to the PS3's capability to crunch those really fast, because last gen GPUs in PC video cards do it better. Observe Folding@Home stats:

http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/...?qtype=osstats

The PS3 fanboy morons were screaming with glee about how incredible the PS3 is and how their machine is some kind of supercomputer like a bunch of dumbasses. After all, the PS3 comprises 3/4 of the calculations being performed so it must be HURRRRRRR! Don't get me wrong, as the contribution the PS3 is giving to the Folding@Home project is just awesome, and it's not like I'm some anti-PS3 fanboy because I'm picking one up next Tuesday on my next paycheck at last (Uncharted: Drake's Fortune WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO can't wait). But let's look at the real stats by doing a little math.

The PS3 client currently has 30404 active CPUs, contributing a very impressive 754 TFLOPS. That is approximately 24.8 GFLOPS per PS3. The standard CPU client running off of computers ranging from Pentium IIs to the latest Core 2 Duos is contributing 174 TFLOPS with 182818 active CPUs. That's approximately .95 GFLOPS per computer, sounds pretty weak in comparison! But now we look at the beta version of the GPU client that takes advantage of the X1000 lineup of ATI's Radeon cards... there's currently 640 active GPUs contributing 38 TFLOPS. That's 59 GFLOPS per GPU.

That's last generation PC video cards pulling those numbers. Suddenly the PS3 "supercomputer" doesn't sound so super, huh. If they made a finalized GPU client that would take advantage of a wider range of GPUs, especially with the newest ones that are out now, the numbers would be even greater.

The PS3 is an outstanding piece of technology, reliable, and arguably a bargain depending on what you're looking for in a multimedia device. But you PS3 fanboy morons really need to open your eyes and just stick to being excited about the console's games, because the boasting of the console's capabilities is really tired.

[Malacite]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

You sir, are an idiot. Ken Kutaragi didn't throw around the term "Super Computer" for shits and giggles.

Once the PS3 gets rolling (it's still only using 1/6 of it's potential) then we'll talk. The CELL & RSX are very powerful chips, especially when used in conjunction to their fullest. We just haven't seen anywhere near that potential.

This is largely due to the fact that developers haven't figured out how to program for all 6 of the available SPE's . Most games only run on 1 core (sometimes 2 for PC I think); PS3 can go up to 6 out of 8 (programming for more than one core is a nightmare btw)

Now there are quad-core PCs out now, and Intel is working on that ridiculous 80-processor thing (honestly wtf?) but show me even ONE PC that has eight cores packed into 1 chip.

Oh that's right, there's only one. PS3

[Caspian]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

Debate the hardware ooh's and ahh's all you want, but cut it out with the flaming.

[Malacite]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

sorry

I don't respond well to threats/flames

[jwalton]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

Ken Kutaragi didn't throw around the term "Super Computer" for shits and giggles.

Sure he did. He helped design it, of course he's going to hype his own work.

The Cell processor has only one primary core, not eight, so your attempt to oversimplify with IT HAS MORE CORES SO IT'S BETTER reminds me of the Megahertz Myth days when Intel kept emphasizing their higher clock speed in their processors when AMD's Athlon 64 series of CPUs were superior.

Cell's intended purpose is different than Intel or AMD's lineup of general purpose processors, which handle integer operations much better than the Cell processor does. It is why no one is in a rush to put Cell processors in gaming PCs. I've provided you with data that backs up the fact that the Cell's strongest point, it's FLOPS capability, is beaten by GPUs in video cards from the previous generation. All you've thrown back at me is "KEN KUTARAGI SAID SO SO IT MUST BE TRUE".

The PS3 is not a supercomputer, not even close. A fantastic piece of hardware, but not a supercomputer.

Edit: Also, I apologize for the flames. I just get annoyed by blatant fanboyism sometimes. Nothing wrong with being excited about your favorite company's product, but there's extremes that don't need to be reached.

[Thoris]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

Feba get off your dam high horse.


If you really read what i said if you want to Compare hardware to Hardware the ps3 blows xbox out of the water.

Ps3 comes built in with wifi, blue Ray, bluethooth, rechargeable controller, and free online gaming.

Xbox you need to pay 100.00 for wifi, HdDVD 160.00, uses radio waves for wireless, Charge kit 21.00 and 50.oo per year for online laggy gaming.


You can Call Bullshit as much as you want but face the facts ps3 is a better deal can you also say

FFXII, Metal gear, GT5, KillZone 2, RFOM2, StarOcean 4, WHC, Shin tensi series, and many more.

in the 5 months i have worked at GameStop i have had peopel Return about 35 Defective xbox's

Vs. 1 ps3 that had a Defect with the BlueRay Drive.

[Malacite]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

You're right about the Integer thing (I'd forgotten about that; been a long time since I've looked at CELL's architecture) and I apologize;

While I certainly Sony, I don't view myself as a rabid fanboy either (quite the contrary; I hate fanboys) but I do think people are unfairly criticizing the system.

Don't forget that Sony now uses farms of PS3s vs supercomputers now to do a lot of their film rendering because they're more efficient (this true, I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Look it up) in terms of cost, power and especially physical space.


CELL is also designed in a unique way that it can link up with other CELL processors to further increase computing power. Now, I forget the exact requirements for this (as in if it requires a physical connection or can be done wirelessly) but it's safe to say it likely doesn't pertain to the PS3 per se; it's just a handy feature that IBM has gone on record stating that it wanted to use in future PCs.

Why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me (possibly because Sony saw fit to sell CELL back to Toshiba... idk WTF is going on there...) but the fact remains that it is capable of supercomuter-like processing via TFLOPS.


How is CELL's power beaten by past GPU's? RSX is immensely powerful, and I'm afraid you're dead wrong about the core issue. PS3 does have 8 cores in 1 thanks to CELL.

http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/...nnovation.html



also see

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan06/2609

Since the way it works (at least on PS3) is you have the main SPE and 7 others (though I believe one of which is automatically allocated to something, I forget what. probably the RSX) and then you have essentially 6 cores that you can assign individual tasks to, as opposed to dumping everything onto a single core.

Also, Because of the way they designed CELL, it can also access all of the PS3's RAM instead of a portion of it unlike every other console that has a preset limit.

Finally I'd like to note that CELL is brilliantly designed in such a way that you can add or subtract SPE's to each individual chip that's made (8 in PS3's case).


Honestly, do not knock this thing before researching it. CELL is a freaking beast of technology, and while it certainly won't remain top-dog forever, as it stands it's essentially a super-computer on a single chip.

RSX may seem somewhat dated as more and better video cards come out, but the way I look at it is this; it's damn powerful (two GeForce 6800's combined according to n'Vidia) and I won't have to bother upgrading to a new freaking card every time the next mind-blowing game comes out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_'Reality_Synthesizer'

For some reason, nVidia's website doesn't list any tech specs on the RSX. Weird...

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

1 core is disabled for redundancy in production. Another core is reserved by XMB.

[jwalton]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

but the fact remains that it is capable of supercomuter-like processing via TFLOPS

So why is the PS3 only getting 2.5% of a TFLOPS worth of performance per PS3 on Folding@Home? I'll tell you why: because the theoretical performance numbers given on specs sheets are complete BS, just like the ones given by Microsoft for the Xbox 360's theoretical performance.

I'm not criticizing the PS3 and Cell, I'm criticizing Sony's marketing of it being referred to as something that it's not. I don't think linking me to documentation provided by one of the three companies that designed the Cell processor as particularly convincing. That's like me linking to documentation from Microsoft to prove the Xbox 360's capabilities... there's going to be some serious bias going on. For awhile, fanboys of the 360 were inflating numbers to make it sound like the console could reach a 1 TFLOPS of performance... complete bullshit of course.

[Telera]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

I wish I hadn't lost my good face palm art. Well not mine, mine. I stole'd it. Owell.

Peoples, peoples.

I do not understand why people must run amok defending an inanimate object as if it were their lady in some sick parody of a mideval joust.

It's a Playstation. It is not hurt or sad that Feba does not love it. (So far as I know, they do not feel yet. Ping does, but owell. She's an accessory :p) Someone not loving it is not going to hurt it or its awesome. It will still play games for you, I'm sure.

In that regard, it's much better than a lady. It won't refuse to play with you. How nice of it. Very magnanimous.

[Raydeus]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

You sir, are an idiot. Ken Kutaragi didn't throw around the term "Super Computer" for shits and giggles.

Hey Malacite if you are debating with whom I think you are debating then just use the blacklist, he really isn't worth the time.

I wish I hadn't lost my good face palm art. Well not mine, mine. I stole'd it. Owell.

Peoples, peoples.

I do not understand why people must run amok defending an inanimate object as if it were their lady in some sick parody of a mideval joust.

It's a Playstation. It is not hurt or sad that Feba does not love it. (So far as I know, they do not feel yet. Ping does, but owell. She's an accessory :p) Someone not loving it is not going to hurt it or its awesome. It will still play games for you, I'm sure.

In that regard, it's much better than a lady. It won't refuse to play with you. How nice of it. Very magnanimous.

Oh don't give me that, you were throwing punches at the beautiful PS3 too like you were jealous the PS3 was prettier than you.


Seriously though, this isn't about Feba not liking the PS3, it could be perfect and Feba would still have all the right in the world to choose not to buy the thing.

This is about Feba saying the PS3 (and all the technology in it) isn't worth the $600 bucks. We are just saying it is worth every penny and more, the decision of buying it or not is for every potential costumer to make, but the machine is worth the price tag.

[jwalton]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

It won't refuse to play with you.

But a 360 will!

Ba-dum pshhh!

[Anaki]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

"Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War "

isn't that the name of this topic??

also jwalton you sound like an idiot with your full fledged hate of a piece of hardware

[jwalton]

Re: Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD Exclusive, Uselessly Extend Format War

It's not my fault that I'm smart enough to look past marketing BS and you're not. Also, if I hated the PS3, I wouldn't own one right now.

I hold no allegiances. I'm pretty much the epitome of multiplatform: I own a Mac, a PC, a PS3, a 360, and a Wii. I'm going to go ahead and pretend like I'm pretty open-minded. I just have a low tolerance for bullshit.