Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

[Icemage]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

A few notes:

Target's not really going Blu-ray exclusive as far as I know (unless you've heard something I haven't on the inside, Pai Pai?) - they're still selling HD DVD discs and the 360 HD DVD add-on.

However, having Target pushing the players is boost for Blu-ray. Sony's latest Blu-ray standalone offering is the Sony S300, which is a pretty solid machine at a $499 MSRP. They also have another unit coming soon called the S500, but no specs have been released on that one yet. Since the price cut on the 60GB PS3, I would expect Sony to announce a price cut on the S300 unit before this deal goes into effect.

As for disc replication costs, no one knows for sure what they are. Recently we have seen some smaller studios turning their back on HD DVD and going Blu-ray exclusive (Tartan Asia Extreme, who are releasing Oldboy on Blu-ray in October, Starz/Anchor Bay, who will be releasing [i]Evil Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead and Halloween) and a couple of smaller studios like Razor and Questar. The comments associated with their press releases indicated that they liked the larger install base and visibility of Blu-ray, so the cost differential must not be influential enough to matter to these small publishers.


Icemage

[Callisto]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Alright, but who the hell actually shops at target?

Probably most people that don't fall into the 2 categories of 'online shopper' and 'mouth-breathing Wal-Mart patron'. For that type of store they're 2nd behind only Wally World I believe.

[Icemage]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Probably most people that don't fall into the 2 categories of 'online shopper' and 'mouth-breathing Wal-Mart patron'. For that type of store they're 2nd behind only Wally World I believe.

Target is the 5th largest retailer in the USA as of end of fiscal year 2006.

http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdf

#1: Wal-Mart
#2: Home Depot
#3: Kroger
#4: Costco
#5: Target

Of those, Home Depot carries no electronics, and most Kroger-owned divisions don't either. Costco, however, does a very brisk business is electronics.


Icemage

[Callisto]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Yeah, I was wondering why they included Kroger on the 'retailers' list, all of the ones I've been to are grocery store/pharmacies. Then again I'm not sure what all they own, they don't have much of a presence in the Chicagoland area, but there are some down in central IL where most of my family lives.

[tangent]Target, on the other hand, is all over the place here. And Super Targets freaking rule, I swear you can get anything there, and their grocery area rocks.[/tangent]

[Eiyoko]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

I'm still kinda baffled as to why there's a pointless format war when the existing format is still sufficient and streaming audio and video only gets better and better. I just see the same bullshit I've been seeing for the last ten years - companies wanting us to buy plastic discs and silicon chips.
Right now on PS3 I can download Namco's apology for Tekken 4, you can download demos of games just shown at E3 on your 360 or PS3.
Why am I going to the stores again? They didn't fill out the DVDs the last time around, you're not gonna fill out whatever formats you make up now.

About time someone said that. *applauds*

On a different subject, Kroger's on the list? How? o.O I thought that was just a grocery store.

Not counting the ONE aisle of "other" goods they have, of course... At least, that's how it is around here.

[Feba]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Probably most people that don't fall into the 2 categories of 'online shopper' and 'mouth-breathing Wal-Mart patron'.

So most people that don't shop online or that are 'mouth-breathing Wal-Mart patrons' are 'mouth-breathing Target patrons'? Interesting.

[Malacite]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

I'm still kinda baffled as to why there's a pointless format war when the existing format is still sufficient and streaming audio and video only gets better and better. I just see the same bullshit I've been seeing for the last ten years - companies wanting us to buy plastic discs and silicon chips.

Right now on PS3 I can download Namco's apology for Tekken 4, you can download demos of games just shown at E3 on your 360 or PS3.

Why am I going to the stores again? They didn't fill out the DVDs the last time around, you're not gonna fill out whatever formats you make up now.

lol. rofl. roflcopter lol.


BD > HD-DVD. About the only edge HD-DVD has is it's apparently much easier to write for since it uses basic coding similar to html.

BD has the potential to go up to 100 GB which is needed for uncompressed audio and visuals. It's just plainly better, much like Beta was better than VHS. Only this time Sony didn't screw up.


The reason it's winning is because of support. Blu Ray doesn't have as many companies sponsoring it, but it's got something like 3-4 times the money sponsoring it though.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

lol. rofl. roflcopter lol.


BD > HD-DVD. About the only edge HD-DVD has is it's apparently much easier to write for since it uses basic coding similar to html.

BD has the potential to go up to 100 GB which is needed for uncompressed audio and visuals. It's just plainly better, much like Beta was better than VHS. Only this time Sony didn't screw up.


The reason it's winning is because of support. Blu Ray doesn't have as many companies sponsoring it, but it's got something like 3-4 times the money sponsoring it though.

You totally missed my point.

Sony has devoted themselves to keeping people in the technological dark ages since the emergance of MP3s on the interent.

They devoted lots of time into to trying to kill a format that was and still is commonly embraced by the people and they were grudgingly were forced to accept it when Apple embraced the trend and turned iTunes and iPod into a license to print money.

Blu Ray and HD-DVD exist only to postpone and supress the inevitable dominance of streaming and download video. They exist as a means of stalling and distracting consumers from a practical, cheaper way of buying and distributing entertainment. They're doing it so they can find a way to control that content before someone else does with streaming video what Napster and Apple did with MP3s.

And its the exact same way with all games, too. DL Content is mostly a joke on all three consoles, 360 and PS3 especially. There are already services for PC that offer Direct-to-Download games. And I think Nintendo is going to take quite a bit of advantage with Wii's homebrew tools in the years to come, even if its just to create 2D games since downloading 3D games there is far less practical.

But you can download big 3D HD gaming on PS3 and 360 now, so why do I need to go to the store for it? For a box with instructions?

[Feba]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Last I recall, BETA and Memory Stick did pretty good for a little bit too.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

They're not going completely BD exclusive, correct Icemage. They're still selling HD-DVD films and the 360 HD-DVD add-on. They are however, only going to be carrying BD standalone players, and they're going to push them.

But you can download big 3D HD gaming on PS3 and 360 now, so why do I need to go to the store for it? For a box with instructions?

Because not everyone has the advantage of broadband internet. Unless you'd rather Sony and Microsoft completely drop support for everyone with DSL or Cable.

Last I recall, BETA and Memory Stick did pretty good for a little bit too.

Once again drawing comparisons between Sony's previous failed formats and BD, which isn't Sony technology.

It's far too early for relying solely on digital distribution, unless you'd prefer spending the time to download 50GB HD movies every time you wanna watch something new, and find the digital storage capacity for all that.

I'm all for Sony's initiative with proving that console download services aren't meant only for less-than-a-gig arcade-style games. I hopped on Tekken Dark Resurrection the moment it popped up on the Japanese PSN store and I'll do the same with Warhawk and SOCOM. Download stores can be for larger, more purposeful games, but with developers stuffing their latest BD releases with full 1080p FMVs and lossless 7.1 audio, I'd much rather have the option of buying most major titles on disc at retail. I could only imagine how large the file size of MGS4 would be for download without having to sacrifice the quality of FMV and audio.

And Ifrit, as for the price of BD, the cost of production has gone down tremendously for discs, but the HD-DVD industry helped them out as well by moving formats to that retarded DVD/HD-DVD combo, which not only wastes yet more space that can be used for having higher quality audio and video, but drives up the price. People who buy HD-DVD films don't want a DVD version on their disc. And people who only buy DVDs aren't going to want to pay $20 more for a format they can't use and probably won't use for some time until they upgrade.

I certainly agree that HD-DVD seems like it should be cheaper. Run around to all the retail stores that sell HD films tomorrow when 300 is released. Most of them will carry the BD version for $29.99 or less, where the HD-DVD/DVD combo will be around $34.99.

[tdh]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

I was reading the article in the link, and was just skimming through the comments and I'm confused. Are all of these people fanboys, or is there something else going on with HD-DVD that I'm just completely unaware of?

For starters everybody seems to think SONY is the only company responsible for Blu-Ray, and that Microsoft is in full control of HD-DVD. This is of course, incorrect. A few of them start on about how HD-DVD is a vastly superior medium, then make several concessions to it's quality due to price of manufacturing, price of players, or capabilities of TVs.

About the only thing I know about Blu-Ray & HD-DVD is that Blu-Ray holds more data. More data means more space for video games, more extras on ONE disc, and possibly more quality. Outside of that, I don't know what all the fuss is about, or why HD-DVDs seem to have a fanboy following. I figured when they said you could put like 5 DVD movies on one Blu-Ray disc the fanboys would jump on that. Get a whole series of movies on a single disc.

As far as the Top 5 lists, I was surprised to see Kroger listed there as well. I thought they were only a Midwestern grocery, and nothing else. In southeastern Michigan we have 3 main options for grocery stores. Kroger, Miejers, and Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart is getting chased out of the area by Target, and Kroger & Miejers battled it out.

Target's awesome in this area too because they're landlords. One Target owned the little shopping center it was in and chased Best Buy and a Media Play out of there. (Well Media Play doesn't really count, but Best Buy had to find another place.) You could walk into Best Buy see a CD for $20. Walk 4 doors down and see the same CD in Target for under $12.

[Feba]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

which isn't Sony technology.

For all real intents, it is.

Because not everyone has the advantage of broadband internet.

This is the real market here. Seriously, get some REAL internet lines out there fairly cheap, and you get a huge market.


Of interest here would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Format_war

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

It's far too early for digital distribution, unless you'd prefer spending the time to download 50GB HD movies every time you wanna watch something new, and find the digital storage capacity for all that.

Who says they have to be HD? HD is really just a minor leap in visual and audio quality. If we cared to make the distinction, we would have done it years ago and the general consumer still doesn't care.

The only people making this content so huge to download are the ones trying to market it to us. I can download high-quality movie trailers on this decrepit PC I have with no skipping and hardly any DL time, once YouTube gets that kind of streaming, its going to be even more popular. Someone will figure out how to do it and they'll probably also find a way to make it work with 56k.

I can pretty much type in any anime I could want to watch on YouTube and watch it right now, which kicks the crap out of paying $30 to Bandai for a pitful three episodes on a hardly-filled DVD.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

Who says they have to be HD? HD is really just a minor leap in visual and audio quality.

I'd invite you over tomorrow to watch 300 on my 1080p screen and 7.1 surround system tomorrow if I could in hopes of changing your mind on that, but unfortunately I can't. :/ Of course, it is all subjective in that respect, which is why it's certainly not time for HD to reach the mass markets. Everyone has different opinions on how much better BD and HD-DVD look compared to standard DVD, and there will be plenty of people who choose to take their own time shifting to HD formats, and plenty of people who will never care to do so anyway. Most people look at BD and HD-DVD as replacements to DVD, when they will most likely continue to be sold alongside DVD as alternatives for HD-installed consumers.

For all real intents, it is.

Blu-ray Disc was developed jointly by Apple, Dell, Hitachi, HP, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson, so while they played a part in it, BD is not exclusively Sony's creation nor are they the only corporation backing it.

which kicks the crap out of paying $30 to Bandai for a pitful three episodes on a hardly-filled DVD.

That I can agree with you on. Bandai's continued to rape anime consumers for years and unfortunately, they're not making their HD-DVD purchases worth it to anyone. I am, however, looking forward to buying the new DragonBall Z BDs. XD Unless anime studios ever get the hint to put more than 2-3 episodes per disc, the only things worth buying from them will be reduced-price box sets and movies.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Target Goes the Blu-Ray Route

I'm confused. Are all of these people fanboys, [...] A few of them start on about how HD-DVD is a vastly superior medium, then make several concessions to it's quality due to price of manufacturing, price of players, or capabilities of TVs.

I think I'm one of the very few who said anything substantial about HD-DVD's advantage, and it was only regarding how it should cheaper to manufacture since its material and form is nearly identical to DVD.

Not a fanboy, sorry. Just an amused spectator who's wondering why the cheaper-to-make format is losing. (I ain't buying either until the dust settles. lol.)

There's nothing to be confuse about; the principle is "chase the money" and see where the story leads.

* * *

BTW, when I mentioned "costs", I don't mean the retail prices. I mean the manufacturing cost. I mean the cost in time to produce a batch of the little discs. That means the cost of buying a "press" machine, how many discs it can churn out a day, the failure rate, the QA time/cost to sort out the failed discs, and the material costs (esp. creating that special coating to protect the data layer which is 0.1 mm from the surface). One thing I'd love to get my hands on would be the licensing prices.

Those kinds of costs interest me. The price labels Target sticks on its stock of BD titles vs. its stock of HD DVD titles actually aren't all that important to me. The store sooner or later will just charge whatever price they think will make them the most money, taking into account of incentives (if they exist) either camp gives to the store.