Brand New Computer

[Temagori]

As you all know, those IRS Economy Stimulation Checks are coming and I would like to purchase a computer with a portion of mine. I am not very computer savvy and I am worried if I go into a computer store that I will just be haggled and taken advantage of.

I would like a computer that is not neccesarily TOP of the line by an means, since I am only looking at investing $350-500. I want it to be able to play games like FFXI and possibly WoW for when we have server updates etc and I don't want to play anything else. lol

I am pretty sure that my best route is to actually go to a smaller non-corporation owned electronics store and have one built, but again I am left with not knowing what is what. I know Feba is a computer whiz, but I know there are many more of you guys out there.

Please help me in finding the best choice for a computer that can do the basic functions and play games etc decently. I appreciate your help with this. ^^

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

I wouldn't really call myself a whiz at anything. Except sarcastically.

Anyway, if your main goals are to play FFXI and WoW, pretty much anything you can buy will work. Would you mind posting the specs on your current machine, so we can see what you're looking to upgrade from? You might be better off upgrading something else (like your monitor) if you're just looking to make games more enjoyable, if your computer isn't struggling.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

Super duper easy to do, just go to a site and pick out the pieces. Go from site to site choosing pieces and see who's prices are lower, etc. We are replacing some parts in my husband's computer soon and here is what we are getting. My husband does play FFXI but not WoW and, other than that, he watches videos, surfs, and does emails. This should be fine and it comes to only $300...though we don't need the case but my son is insisting and I think the only reason he wants me to buy it is so he can snag it. >< Just go browse and have fun, then post what you find and we'll take a look at it! LOL Don't forget you can use parts like your floppy, dvd drive, etc from your old computer and save some money.

Newegg.com - ASUS M3A-H/HDMI AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - AMD Motherboards

Newegg.com - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Black Edition Processor - CPUs / Processors

Newegg.com - Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory

Newegg.com - APEVIA X-Gear ATXB5KLW-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 420W Power Supply - Computer Cases

[Temagori]

Re: Brand New Computer

Well I play FFXI on 360 and PS3, but my comp sits right next to me and I would like to get one powerful enough to play it, because the one I have now is crap lol. I have FiOS internet and my comp has a hard time keeping up.

I don't know any of the specs, but I do know that above Flash 5 it doesn't process worth a damn. I bought it from work for $75 so it was worth what I payed lol. I have Office 2000 and that's about the extent of my knowledge regarding it. I appreciate the help and I'll look at those pieces and hope to piece together a decent comp. ^^

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

Super duper easy to do, just go to a site and pick out the pieces

I have to recommend against this. Building it yourself works well for more expensive computers, but if you're trying to get something cheap you definitely want to go with a complete unit. Manufacturers can simply get those much cheaper than you ever could.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

Only speaking for myself but, I'll never buy an off the shelf computer. I do see the benefits for people that aren't computer savvy though. If you can't build it, then you can't fix it so people with little knowledge can buy extended warranties and save themselves a lot of hassle. Problem is, those warranties only cover hardware issues and many times its sofware problems that people just don't understand.

If you have some knowledge, there are great resources on the internet for building computers. Surf around and bone up before you build and if you run into any questions you can usually find the answers on the net too. Building one really isn't too difficult, its the software that screws people up most of the time. Obtaining drivers to make things work right, figuring out conflicts, etc are what drive me bonkers when I do it. I actually have a little "bible" now with notes on issues I've run into and shortcuts I've found, very handy.

Personally, if you are going to get into computers and gaming, I think you should take a course or two at a rec center or community college. Knowledge is power.

I did look into a shelf stock computer for my husband in the $300 range and found total CRAP out there. It's hard to be objective when you know a lot about computers and you check out the shelf stock. But if you go that route, my advice is to go with a Dell. Just my opinion.

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

I do see the benefits for people that aren't computer savvy though.

It has nothing to do with being computer savvy, it's just that it's almost entirely drawbacks at that price range. With a more expensive one, you get better control over your parts, better quality, more power at less price. With trying to make a cheap computer from parts, the only real benefit is being able to select what parts you want; but even that isn't so great because obviously you're trying to keep it cheap. Hell, a new copy of XP Pro SP3 alone is $140; that's a third of your budget, right there.

Don't get me wrong, building a computer is fun, and it's definitely worth it to do some studying so you at least understand computers well enough to do it, but it's just not a good idea if you're aiming to get something low end and cheap.

If you want to do some learning about PC hardware, I strongly recommend InformIT: Upgrading and Repairing PCs, 18th Edition - $47.99 -- it's absolutely huge, but it's still interesting enough that I read through a significant amount of the 1000+ pages (and go back to learn from it later, as well).

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

It has nothing to do with being computer savvy, it's just that it's almost entirely drawbacks at that price range. With a more expensive one, you get better control over your parts, better quality, more power at less price. With trying to make a cheap computer from parts, the only real benefit is being able to select what parts you want; but even that isn't so great because obviously you're trying to keep it cheap. Hell, a new copy of XP Pro SP3 alone is $140; that's a third of your budget, right there.

Don't get me wrong, building a computer is fun, and it's definitely worth it to do some studying so you at least understand computers well enough to do it, but it's just not a good idea if you're aiming to get something low end and cheap.

If you want to do some learning about PC hardware, I strongly recommend InformIT: Upgrading and Repairing PCs, 18th Edition - $47.99 -- it's absolutely huge, but it's still interesting enough that I read through a significant amount of the 1000+ pages (and go back to learn from it later, as well).

Well I look at it like this, my husband's mb just took a dump and if I had bought a shelf stock, I'd be out buying another because the warranty had expired. If I had built it, and I did, now all I have to do is buy another mb and adjust a few software issues. Or you buy a game and find out your shelf stock can't handle it graphically so you figure you'll just swap out the video card.....most likely can't do that with a cheap one. So with shelf stock sometimes you are replacing the entire computer in order to keep up with gaming requirements where with a self built one you can swap out parts. Like I said, I understand the reasoning behind buying shelf stock but if you are in it for the long haul, educate yourself.

I don't buy OS's.

If you like buying books, more power to you but there are just as good, if not better, resources on the internet for free.

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

Ok, let me get this straight:

if you buy a shelf model and the MB blows something, you have to buy a new motherboard.

But if you buy it from parts made yourself, and the MB blows something, you have to buy a new motherboard

what?

Or do you mean that you're just replace the entire unit, instead of just swapping out the motherboard?

most likely can't do that with a cheap one.

I'm going to guess that you're talking about nonstandard cases then-- which absolutely was not the point. Yes, if you buy a slimline PC that doesn't use standard specifications, you're going to have problems. No one was recommending that, though. It's just a matter of making sure that the computer is standards compliant ahead of time, so you can swap out parts later, which isn't a problem.

If you buy a premade computer, and you make sure it's standards compliant, it's just as easy to swap out parts later if you need to, and at much lower cost.

I don't buy OS's.

Well, not everyone supports software piracy, or has the luxury of getting OS licenses at no cost.

If you like buying books, more power to you but there are just as good, if not better, resources on the internet for free.

Mm, but the wealth of information in this would be very hard to organize and read through easily on a computer. Dead tree copies do have their advantages (for example, if your PC dies, which is going to be more useful: pdf, or paper?)

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

Ok, let me get this straight:

if you buy a shelf model and the MB blows something, you have to buy a new motherboard.

But if you buy it from parts made yourself, and the MB blows something, you have to buy a new motherboard

what?

Or do you mean that you're just replace the entire unit, instead of just swapping out the motherboard?

Sorry, thought you could figure that out. Yes, you'd have to replace the entire computer instead of a part.

I'm going to guess that you're talking about nonstandard cases then-- which absolutely was not the point. Yes, if you buy a slimline PC that doesn't use standard specifications, you're going to have problems. No one was recommending that, though. It's just a matter of making sure that the computer is standards compliant ahead of time, so you can swap out parts later, which isn't a problem.

If you buy a premade computer, and you make sure it's standards compliant, it's just as easy to swap out parts later if you need to, and at much lower cost.

I don't buy shelf stock but last time I looked most cheaper ones are not compliant so you will be stuck with what you get. Most let you swap out ram but bigger hardware, not so much.

Mm, but the wealth of information in this would be very hard to organize and read through easily on a computer. Dead tree copies do have their advantages (for example, if your PC dies, which is going to be more useful: pdf, or paper?)

Print out what you find. Yes it takes time and effort but you get exactly what you are looking for by doing it. I don't understand how it would be hard to organize or read?? You search for what you want, copy/paste, organize, and print. I have tons of files that I've done and I have no problems. I do the same with my FFXI info too, so would that make getting FFXI info from websites very hard to organize and read too? Totally confused.

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

Sorry, thought you could figure that out. Yes, you'd have to replace the entire computer instead of a part.

Well, that would be a good point, if it were true; but it isn't.

I don't buy shelf stock but last time I looked most cheaper ones are not compliant so you will be stuck with what you get.

First off, obviously you'd make sure it's standards compliant before you buy it. Secondly, though, I'd recommend you check again, most manufacturers have gotten pretty good about being standards compliant, except in models they advertise as being very small.

Print out what you find.

That doesn't really take care of the problems, though. I mean, it's good to have an offline (and non-computer reliant) database in case of failure, of course, but you don't get the presentation and such an actual book would have.

I don't understand how it would be hard to organize or read?

Simply, when you take information from a lot of different sources (even if those sources are related; such as printing out a bunch of different wikipedia articles) there's a good chance they won't work together well. There's also the fact that you'd probably spend more money on ink, paper, and a binder by printing out equivalent info than by just buying the book.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

Well, that would be a good point, if it were true; but it isn't.

Have you ever been in a situation where you bought shelf stock and a video card went belly up and you couldn't replace it? I have, so yes it is true. Again, most computers in the $300-$500 are not compliant and you will replace them for major parts failures after a warranty expries. Been there, done that....too many times. Thats why I build my own now.

Like Murph always says, you win Feba, I'm done.

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

Again, most computers in the $300-$500 are not compliant and you will replace them for major parts failures after a warranty expries.

That just isn't true, though, at least not anymore.

Take a look at Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more! , for instance, very cheap computers, and most of them use standard, expandable cases.

Even if it were true that MOST computers in that price range didn't follow ATX or one of it's offshoots, the fact would still be that SOME do, and that those some are still going to be much cheaper than building it yourself.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Brand New Computer

Feba.... it has nothing to do with the case. Integrated graphics in a budget pc can not be fixed without buying a new mb most of the time. Replacing a mb in a budget pc usually isn't possible unless its under warranty and done by the manufacturer or their representative. So if your shelf stock pc's graphics go to crap, you are left holding the bag unless its under warranty. If it's not, its a new pc for you because I hope to hell you aren't going to pay to get it fixed. I'm going to bed....someone explain it to him.

[Feba]

Re: Brand New Computer

Feba.... it has nothing to do with the case

Well, yes it does, if the case is a slimline there may not be room for expansion cards.

Integrated graphics in a budget pc can not be fixed without buying a new mb most of the time.

If it's the motherboard you're worried about, most of those PCs have a PCI-e x16 slot, (and you should always check something before you buy it) so they should have no problem accepting a graphics card. If the integrated graphics cause problems, they should be able to be turned off in the BIOS.

If the MB dies and the case adheres to standards you should have no problem replacing it yourself; at least, no more so than if you had built it yourself.


I really don't see what your problem is with prebuilt PCs. You say that you can't replace/improve parts because they don't adhere to standards, but nowadays, most of them do. Even if they didn't, it's more than possible to find one that does use standard sizes and is easy to swap parts around with, and still be cheaper than building it yourself. I can understand that you have had problems in the past, but those aren't really reflective of how things are now, and it's not reflective of how good they are if you do some investigating before you buy something.