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  • A Windows Kill switch?

    From zdnet.com...


    Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?

    [Update, 30-June 8:40AM PDT: Microsoft responds, sort of. Details in this follow-up post.]

    Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft’s latest salvo in the war against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage components are being pushed onto users’ machines with insufficient notification and inadequate quality control, and the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid button.)

    Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact, one report claims WGA is about to become a Windows “kill switch” – and when I asked Microsoft for an on-the-record response, they refused to deny it.

    Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber’s Interesting People list posted some comments about his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he added this tidbit:

    I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I have not installed is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

    I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say, "yep, I've got updates turned to manual… it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want to get the latest updates to Windows."

    I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me that WGA was a good thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA and just want to review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

    He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now." [emphasis added]

    I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality or the OS as a whole (tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install every piece of software that they send it updates.

    That can’t be true, can it? I’m always suspicious of any report that comes from a front-line tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official confirmation or, better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft spokesperson:

    As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program expands in the future, customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is gathering feedback in select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will keep customers informed of any changes to the program.

    That’s it. That’s the entire response.

    Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows Genuine Advantage program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates delivered via Windows Update. The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates. Hackers have been working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes mandatory, would it mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines – possibly erroneously – that your copy isn’t “genuine”? That’s a chilling possibility, and Microsoft refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

    Over at Ed Bott’s Windows Expertise, I’ve been soliciting feedback from Windows users who’ve been burned by WGA. So far, I’ve received 20 comments. Here’s a sampling:

    • I have an XP Media center with a promise RAID 0 4-disc array. When I installed the WPA it broke the drivers for the array by causing failed delayed writes (half of the array just “disapears”.) If I do a system restore to before the installation of the WPA everything goes back to working just fine.
    • [S]ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive. I am running two drives on a RAID 1 config.
    • I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.
    • Microsoft rejected the product key that came with the ThinkPad I’m using. I had to call in and they gave me another code to enter which supposedly worked but now I get the blue screen of death about every other time I reboot. I’ve also lost all internet connectivity.
    • I sent my Compaq Presario notebook for service repair, and it fails the WGA check. I have a legal version of windows xp professional on it. But I have no way to correct this problem.
    What’s most disturbing about this whole saga is Microsoft’s complete lack of transparency on the issue. And before the ABM crowd jumps in with predictable “What did you expect?” comments, let me argue that Microsoft actually has a fairly good track record on transparency issues in recent years. Windows Product Activation is very well documented, and when a similar uproar occurred in 2001, it was squelched quickly by some fairly prominent postings from high-level executives who provided details without a lot of spin. Likewise, the Microsoft Security Response Center has done an exceptional job at providing quick responses to security issues. (Just ask Adam Shostack.)

    Currently, no one at Microsoft is blogging about this fiasco. No executive has been quoted on the record about it. There are very few technical details available, and those that have been published are being tumbled through the spin machine and spit out as press releases.

    If Microsoft really does plan to turn WGA into a kill switch in September, be prepared for an enormous backlash.





    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84&tag=nl.e550

  • #2
    Re: A Windows Kill switch?

    I love WGA. (Love, as in despise).

    An acquaintance of mine is dealing with a fiasco between Dell and Microsoft right now. The Genuine Advantage is currently telling him that all his Dell computers -- fresh out of their packaging are all running pirated versions of windows.
    Microsoft says it's Dells' problem, Dell says it's Microsoft's.


    Anyway, even if Microsoft installs a Windows kill switch, there won't be a huge backlash. If there was going to be a huge backlash -- people would have lashed back when WGA first showed up. Instead, a soft "moo" was heard around the world and most everyone installed it.

    First off, the mistakes that WGA makes are small enough, that even if every person that fell victim to being WGAed left the Wintel world, Microsoft would barely notice.

    Second, for a large number people, there's no where to go. Seriously, anyone that does get WGA'ed, and their Windows quits functioning because of a kill switch ...
    Are they going to go out and buy a Mac? That's a fairly expensive proposition.
    Download Linux? I don't think so. I've spent too much time in software -- there are too many users that would be completely lost if they didn't have a button in the lower left hand corner labeled "Start".

    If people have to go out and pay for two copies of windows, they're will be much whining and gnashing of teeth -- but they'll do it.

    I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality or the OS as a whole (tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install every piece of software that they send it updates.
    Yes they do.

    Everyone seems to forget, end users don't own their copy of Windows -- Microsoft has merely granted them permission to use the software so long as the user follows the rules laid out by Microsoft.... Bonus is that Microsoft gets to change the rules whenever it strikes their fancy.

    I love the response in his update: "No, Microsoft anti-piracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer."

    As usual, you have to really pay attention to how Microsoft words things. No my computer will not be turned off, but it might get put into state where buttons do not react to mouse clicks (or whatever)... Technically that's not off.

    signature by fallenintoshadows

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    • #3
      Re: A Windows Kill switch?

      More updated info on that:

      http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archiv...01/103532.aspx

      M$ statement about that there's stuff from July on it. Just seemed to go quiet a bit after that though.

      It's actually not surprising, they built in anti-piracy stuff like that in the X-Box if you try to tamper with the HD. I personally think it's a very stupid design, only people it'll truely hurt is those with little knowledge to fix a computer.

      Some that actualy pirates either find a work around quickly enough or just move to Linux and use the emulators.
      Last edited by Macht; 08-03-2006, 03:47 PM.


      Cheezy Test Result (I am nerdier than 96% of all people. Are you nerdier? Click here to find out!)

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      • #4
        Re: A Windows Kill switch?

        I don't understand, are you angry because Microsoft doesn't want you using their software that you didn't buy? As long as you're legit you shouldn't have anything to worry about, just install the WGA and live life. It's not like this software isn't included in any computer you purchase.

        It's not like I'm a MS fanboy, this just seems to be a really simple problem to solve. For the record, I dislike a lot of this anti-piracy stuff because most of it has completely destroyed WMP and my ability to burn CDs I've bought to my hard drive, even if it's in WMA format. I now have to use Musicmatch for that, which does a wonderful job, but it's tagging database is very lacking. I have to reinstall Windows once a year after it degrades itself beyond a certain unusable point.

        Once WV rolls around I suspect they'll have a lot of issues ironed out.

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        • #5
          Re: A Windows Kill switch?

          Originally posted by DakAttack
          I don't understand, are you angry because Microsoft doesn't want you using their software that you didn't buy? As long as you're legit you shouldn't have anything to worry about, just install the WGA and live life. It's not like this software isn't included in any computer you purchase.
          I think it's more about a worst case scenario where licensed copies get labelled as not being Genuine so the user has to buy another copy of the software because of that, or something like that...

          As long as Microsoft doesn't do something stupid for things like reinstalling Windows (which I do at least once a year) saying the key has already been used or stuff like that, there shouldn't be any troubles with the OS.

          For people using a non-legal version of the OS then I would suggest start saving for a legit copy so they can skip the trouble.
          sigpic
          "In this world, the one who has the most fun is the winner!" C.B.
          Prishe's Knight 2004-Forever.

          その目だれの目。

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          • #6
            Re: A Windows Kill switch?

            Originally posted by DakAttack
            I don't understand, are you angry because Microsoft doesn't want you using their software that you didn't buy? As long as you're legit you shouldn't have anything to worry about, just install the WGA and live life. It's not like this software isn't included in any computer you purchase.
            *ahem*

            Sorry DakAttack, but that's a niave perspective.

            Please read my anecdote at the top of my first post. Four brand new Dells -- running legit and paid for versions of Windows XP Pro are not recognized as legitimate.

            The only thing either vendor is willing to do is blame the other vendor. The consumer is left powerless to rectify the situation.

            I don't think anyone is up in arms about not being able run illegal versions of Windows. That's not the point. The point is exactly as Macht put it. The people who are technically saavy will continue to get away with pirated versions of windows. Honest folks are the ones that are going to bear the brunt of this.
            Last edited by Gentoo; 08-03-2006, 10:31 PM.

            signature by fallenintoshadows

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            • #7
              Re: A Windows Kill switch?

              NO the worse case senerio, is a virus/trojan that resets your password.

              I.E. instant kill switch to millions of users.

              Currently it's already possible, since we can reset our serial(abeit something that needs a lot of user interaction).

              The problem is if WGA is mantatory or not. The moment it is, it's an easy "backdoor" like senerio, only in this case, of mallious intent. (critical update)

              The other issue is Trusted computing(it's already in use in minor form) which is both HW+SW lock out.

              Currently expected in some form for Vista.

              This makes WGA doublly dangerous, because, it will report way too much, and restrict all the same.

              Imagine, your Serial get's killed(either because of OEM or other reasons), and it boots up saying "Sorry Trusted Vista mode check failed, please crt-alt-delete" There goes your sales report deadline, and probably your job.

              BTW a large amount of legit WGA fails is because people don't understand or rather have no choice in OEM copies.

              OEM XP means in this content, your serial is subjected, to non-transfereable, limited, authentication checks. If you change say a motherboard, HDD, or enough of the specs, your serial is dead. Then you would have to activate it again, of course you only get so many chances, which then you have to call up Support.

              And support is...how shall we say, a stressful thing, heavy indian accented thing. 15 digits of "b as in bob, 8 as in the number street"

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              • #8
                Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                WGA corrupted my Compro pro drivers for my TV card on my comp, so I rolled back and tehy worked fine, menmtioned it to microsoft who told me that they didn't support the certificates of this and blatently told me I should have bought a haupage one (yes at twice the cost and a little bit of cash flowing microsofts way). if I am forced to install WGA, then i can't use my TV card? WTF! I beleive there are hundreds of "none certificated stuff" i.e. things microsoft don't get a bit of dosh from that gets affected. As proven by kuu and Eohomer.

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                • #9
                  Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                  It's definitly time for a change.
                  signatures are for pussies mew mew mew, here's mine

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                  • #10
                    Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                    Originally posted by Balfree
                    I might actually go mac... Can you still rung FF on a mac? I had always been told you can't

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                    • #11
                      Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                      Originally posted by Zamphire
                      I might actually go mac... Can you still rung FF on a mac? I had always been told you can't
                      You cannot. FF runs on the 360, PS2, and Windows only. Unfortunately it doesn't work under Cedega either.

                      The new Macs, with their Intel core can boot a copy of windows using an [unsupported] utility from Apple. So you could run FF on your Windows partition, and do everything else from your Mac partition.

                      signature by fallenintoshadows

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                      • #12
                        Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                        Macs rumor which we might find out next week, is an apple migration for windows(game developer) that could drastically reduce port time for Intel machines, via WINE api set.

                        WINE itself is on it's way to Mac Intel's, but not quite that compatible with games.

                        Though it will do a lot to help games run on mac(though still window-y)

                        Of course ffxi doesn't work on WINE/Calega yet (reports are getting closer, pol finally updates).

                        Parrallel doesn't support 3d or dx, but they got some ideas(though no one so far has been able to do it or virtualization-not that they tried)

                        The only wrench in this equation is DX10, for vista only, with a bunch of other crap that'll sure to mess up non-vista people.

                        Of coure almost no one but Microsoft themselves are supporting DX10, for the main reason of being Vista only. Who wants to sell games for a api set that is not backward comparable to 90% of the market.

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                        • #13
                          Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                          Originally posted by Balfree
                          Lol I use a G4 tower at work for archicad, much better

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                          • #14
                            Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                            Sadly, if I can't play FF, then Mac is useless to me.

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                            • #15
                              Re: A Windows Kill switch?

                              Originally posted by Zamphire
                              Sadly, if I can't play FF, then Mac is useless to me.
                              considering it does work well in vista either, you're not really at advantage in anyy line.

                              it's boot xp(on mac intel) for ffxi or boot xp(on pc) for ffxi.

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