Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

[TBoTB]

To start out, this whole post is an opinion of mind that I developed while searching for a decent laptop that will satisfy my gaming needs and may or may not be a rant… more or less anyway. =p



It seems to me that the concept, mobile desktop, is being phased out by less power consuming / less complex graphically enabled mobile processors and GPUs. Now, one may say its obvious since, theoretically most laptop users consist of business base user who will only use it for desktop / 2d applications. This “ fact “ dose not mean that there aren’t potential users who will have a use for a entertainment based laptop. You could search and find laptops that belong to categories about gaming and entertainment but what you get is basic laptop suited for view / creating / editing pictures, video, flash, 3d imaging which doesn’t necessarily translate into a good gaming platform. In my search for a what I call a real gaming laptop, I only found one laptop that had a high end desktop processor from AMD and about three to four that had one from Intel. The AMD processor was a 4000+ and the Pentium Class was 4 that ranged from 3.0-3.6 GHz. What are these high end CPUs being replaced by? Mobile suckiness called Turino and Centrino processors. The only other architecture I found interesting for a mobile solution was dual core processors which I’ve seen on a few dell laptops but doing further research revealed that existing games will have to be patched to allow use of the dual architecture enjoinment.



Leaving CPU’s aside and moving on to video cards, I pretty much only have one question. Even if you improved on the CPU to allow for longer battery life without sacrificing their business view of performance, why make changes to the GPU, which is pretty much just as necessary to onscreen performance as Ram and CPU. Most of the Pentium class Centrinos (which, as far as I’ve have see, go up to 2.2-2.4 GHz so far) and AMD’s Turion (which go up to 2.2 so far) sport these nifty little ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M IGPthat make me want to scream at my computer screen, go to best buy, and talk trash to a random sales floor rep who probably wont know what I’m saying about why and how would they(laptop manufacturer) would put such a mind boggling piece of hardware into a laptop and say it screams in performance.



Meh, what do I know, I found the laptop I want. AMD 4000+, 1G DDR PC2700, ATI Radeon x600 (not the best, there are a few with x700 but the trade off is a little displeasing.) /rant *sighs*

[kuu]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

They're bascially splitting the line, where it's really "mobile" and power user "mobile".

Cheaper, slimmer, more battery life does not equal a gaming machine.

The split is made into casual/blue collar business user and a poweruser/graphics professional.

Neither really caters to gamers, and that's sort of the problem. PC gamers stick to customized desktops..rarely labtops... so the insentive isn't there to make one for gamers. The Labtop business is profitable as well as cut-throat right now. No one wants to split off more models if money isn't there.

If you need beefy power on you lap...you're have to pay good money for the graphics pro market, and take their extras.

[bside]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

one of the reasons why u have hard time finding such a powerful laptop pc is that it's obvious not many ppl have need for it. but the reason behind that is in "ordinary" US households the house is big enough to have a room for desktop pc's.

on the other hand, in countries like Japan, famous for its small land against many ppl within, we do have hard time making a space even for desktop pc's, especially for single ppl living in apartments, where all they have is 1 small room, an even smaller kitchen, and a bathroom. for that reason, laptop pc becomes an "unavoidable" choice for some ppl, if not many, and naturally the need for performance increases, as it must become a desktop replacement for them.

for example, this one by Fujitsu has pretty much everything u can ask for;

wanna big screen? it has 17 inch WIDE.
wanna play games? MOBILITY RADEON X1400 is there.
wanna even watch some TV shows on it? built-in TV capture board for ya.

now the question is, will this make a good sale in US, priced at $2,500, while the desktop pc of the same spec costs about half that much? frankly, i doubt it.


it's all about the supply vs. demand thing. but it's good to hear that u found the nice one anyways.

[Macht]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Ehh, part of it could just be power. The higher you push the CPU processor the more energy it draws up. As you know most of the new age games are requiring a design of either a multiprocessor core or to go with the new CBE technology. For laptops a Multiprocessor core is definatly out of the question battery life would be like 30 min. or something.

With the CBE technology on the other hand it seems feesible that you may see more mobile devices that can support entertainment better. Considering that the CBE like the one the PS3 is to have can do far better then the 3 processors in the XBox 360 and the coupe de grace is that it does this performance at what a regular single processor would use in energy or less than.

The consern you should have more for next gen gaming and mobile technology is that the burst style of wireless technology continues to progress to eventually be more of streaming then burst. Reason is that sending huge packets of data on set intervals causes the game to rely more of fuzzy logic programing and that can be a bad thing.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Much of this is already known, so I won't go into full detail...

1. There's a movement (a push at least) in the laptop market to make laptops considerably cheaper without losing money. As a result of this push, you're not near as likely to find a developer actually targetting high-end laptops. A laptop requires much more maintenance than a PC, and as such requires more money. You should know other costly reasons.

2. There is no high-end laptop market in the United States that would profit any company enough to set aside a line of such laptops. We're mostly comfortable with our PCs we often customize ourselves.

3. Even the typical PC has become much more portable than it used to be. With certain "additions", we're able to carry our PC from place to place without much help needed.

But those are the major reasons. It can change in the near future always, provided there's a market for it by then.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

I think the most recent issue of Maximum PC has a how to on how to build your own laptop. I know that is staying in my keep stack for when I have the time and $$ to blow and do it.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

There were issues that were addressed here, and I like to see that, it seems we're all on the same page.

Performance vs. Practacality, I suppose is the question. Being a college student, and being a gamer, My Inspiron 1200, while a POS, does what I need it to do, and quite frankly, it's sad that as long as it DOES it's job, I can't really bitch and moan about it. I can play FFXI just fine, and I can do my assignments just fine.

Yet, however, I see the way the Square-Enix videos and screenshots look, and I can't help but wonder why I can't achieve gracefulness such as that.

But such is the problem of laptops, and it's that they have basically all the components of a desktop crammed into 10% of the space, so costs are higher

There are the laptops, however, that are extremely high-end, and you can put desktop graphics cards in them, upgrade them to 2gb of RAM, pimp them out with all sorts of doo-dads, but the real question is: Why do that to a laptop when you can do it to a desktop for cheaper?

The answer is: Because gaming is that important to me. And I think that a lot of companies don't realize that there is a market screaming for affordable gaming rigs because, well, sometimes there is a lot of crap you don't need on a PC. I don't need Microsoft Office or Adobe or w/e if all I wanna do, first and foremorst, is play FFXI. . .

When high-end and power-coserving components become available, Laptops will change, because ppl will demand it. As it seems, laptops are only for those who need to type up reports, stocks, work and etc on the play, bus, train or what have you.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

There were issues that were addressed here, and I like to see that, it seems we're all on the same page.

Indeed, we are quite well on the same page.

When high-end and power-coserving components become available, Laptops will change, because ppl will demand it. As it seems, laptops are only for those who need to type up reports, stocks, work and etc on the play, bus, train or what have you.

I must dissent here. I do think they've the technology to do high-end and power-conservation in the same laptop, but its an issue of praticality. They simply don't have the resources quite yet. I do think they won't think much on it until they see a growing demand for it, just like the energy crisis happening now.

[cschmidt1.1]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Yeah high end laptops aren't common and as someone above me posted - why would you want one as good as a PC, when you can get it for more like a 3rd of the price. Sure you may say portability, but your battery life would be crap unless you could find yourself a power outlet and if so, go for it!

Alienware is your solution if you have a huuuge phat wad of cash, I think you can make it just as good as the most top end desktop PC's out there.

I live in a fairly cramped place so it seems a laptop is my solution, and sometimes I like to just sit and relax at my campus (it's on a side of a hill and has wonderful views and green gardens everwhere), and there are plentiful amounts of power outlets so I am thinking of a good high end notebook myself. I just need to work the streets a bit harder and I might get enough to get one in the next year or so . Then again I could get my ENTIRE family to chip in to get one for my birthday...just 9 months to go

Also I might just wanna add one question. This world seems to revolve around making things smaller yet just as powerful if not more powerful. How do you think this will affect desktop PC's? Will they even really exist in the next 5 - 10 years as we know it now? Sorry if I should of made another thread on this.

[Aeni]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

I think the big reason why is overheating. Have you own the slimline desktops from Dell? Our firm does. 22% failure rate in the first 6 mos and we're only now beginning the second term of evaluation. Talk about a POS hardware...

I'm sure laptops are no better.

[kuu]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Much of this is already known, so I won't go into full detail...

1. There's a movement (a push at least) in the laptop market to make laptops considerably cheaper without losing money. As a result of this push, you're not near as likely to find a developer actually targetting high-end laptops. A laptop requires much more maintenance than a PC, and as such requires more money. You should know other costly reasons.

2. There is no high-end laptop market in the United States that would profit any company enough to set aside a line of such laptops. We're mostly comfortable with our PCs we often customize ourselves.

3. Even the typical PC has become much more portable than it used to be. With certain "additions", we're able to carry our PC from place to place without much help needed.

But those are the major reasons. It can change in the near future always, provided there's a market for it by then.

Not true, there is one market that has need and that is the digital graphics market, which is why mac labtops are selling so well though the 21st century.

The new macbook pro costs a good 2k+ but the specs per battery power it has can put out some major power. This is also probably the reason why Apple jumped into bed with intel, the new core duo draws perhaps 25-40w and can push enough power to equal an 80w+ P4 4.3gig level. Also Apple has put major R&D over the years into laptop technology, to help them along the way.

Why isn't this in the PC market, or not nearly as much? Apple catters to a digtal graphics market that they have firm hands on with with power gulping power like FCP Studio, shake, adobe, etc.

Though if you talk about price, anyone in those business care more for productivity, then cutting corners.

If anyone else can grab enough of the digital graphics market, you might see other companies. So far I've only seen Sony try that path.

Now that apple made the intel switch, it is actually worth considering, since many of the things games excel at also is similar to Apple motion technology, and they will revolve their product around it.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Not true, there is one market that has need and that is the digital graphics market, which is why mac labtops are selling so well though the 21st century.

The new macbook pro costs a good 2k+ but the specs per battery power it has can put out some major power. This is also probably the reason why Apple jumped into bed with intel, the new core duo draws perhaps 25-40w and can push enough power to equal an 80w+ P4 4.3gig level. Also Apple has put major R&D over the years into laptop technology, to help them along the way.

Why isn't this in the PC market, or not nearly as much? Apple catters to a digtal graphics market that they have firm hands on with with power gulping power like FCP Studio, shake, adobe, etc.

Though if you talk about price, anyone in those business care more for productivity, then cutting corners.

If anyone else can grab enough of the digital graphics market, you might see other companies. So far I've only seen Sony try that path.

Now that apple made the intel switch, it is actually worth considering, since many of the things games excel at also is similar to Apple motion technology, and they will revolve their product around it.

I believe someone already pointed out in this thread that creating digital graphics has required less than a video game and doesn't necessarily require "high-end" specs...

Double Post Edited:

Alienware is your solution if you have a huuuge phat wad of cash, I think you can make it just as good as the most top end desktop PC's out there.

Don't make me laugh, come on. Even Alienware is a waste of money when we can build our own computers for 80% cheaper. My computer I built, I found at Alienware a computer of similar specs, to be $9k, building my computer only cost me $1300-$1400 in the end. You give me the specs of any main-brand computer, and I can almost guarantee a lower price by building a custom-built PC of similar-or-better specs instead.

In fact, all these companies are really doing is putting a computer together they bought the pieces from some other company and adding their own logo to it. At least 10% of the price is paying for the logo.

[cschmidt1.1]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Don't make me laugh, come on. Even Alienware is a waste of money when we can build our own computers for 80% cheaper. My computer I built, I found at Alienware a computer of similar specs, to be $9k, building my computer only cost me $1300-$1400 in the end. You give me the specs of any main-brand computer, and I can almost guarantee a lower price by building a custom-built PC of similar-or-better specs instead.

In fact, all these companies are really doing is putting a computer together they bought the pieces from some other company and adding their own logo to it. At least 10% of the price is paying for the logo.

I was referring to a laptop being as good as a high end computer, there aren't alot of options as to were you can get such a thing. Also you said it cost you 9k on alienware to build what you could get for $1300 - $1400 custom built, well all I can say is...get your eyes checked man! I built a 7k computer on there that was a freaking powerhouse of ultimate goodiness, that the most hardcore computer person would orgasmate over. I'm talking AMD Athlonâ„¢ 64 FX-60+, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Dual ATI x1900 crossfire plus other ultimate awesomeness and that came to like $7000. Now are you saying you can build that for $1300 - $1400?? If so please oh please build me one.

I'm not saying it's cheaper than custom built, because that's just stupid, of course they are gonna charge you more for what it is, it's how they make money and become a big business, but I think your figures were greatly exaggerated.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

I was referring to a laptop being as good as a high end computer, there aren't alot of options as to were you can get such a thing. Also you said it cost you 9k on alienware to build what you could get for $1300 - $1400 custom built, well all I can say is...get your eyes checked man! I built a 7k computer on there that was a freaking powerhouse of ultimate goodiness, that the most hardcore computer person would orgasmate over. I'm talking AMD Athlonâ„¢ 64 FX-60+, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Dual ATI x1900 crossfire plus other ultimate awesomeness and that came to like $7000. Now are you saying you can build that for $1300 - $1400?? If so please oh please build me one.

I'm not saying it's cheaper than custom built, because that's just stupid, of course they are gonna charge you more for what it is, it's how they make money and become a big business, but I think your figures were greatly exaggerated.

Not quite.

I can get 4 1GB DDR2-SDRAM modules for $75ea. (Crucial.com), a 500GB HDD for $500 (Tigerdirect.com) (or I can get 3 200GB HDD for about $20-$100 ea. at Best Buy), a full-sized tower barebone kit for a measily $100-$200 (Newegg.com), a 600watt-PSU for $125.00 (Tigerdirect.com), an nVidia Geforce 7800 GTX for $450 (Tigerdirect.com). So far, that's $1,500-$1,800. As for your AMD, keep it. I'll go Pentium or Xeon instead. (I also would like to add if you pay more than $300 for a computer that has less speed in the processor than 3.2ghz, you're easily being ripped off.)

(That's not even including any discounts or rebates I can get in the process either.)

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Next gen mobile technology not next gen gaming friendly?

Draco was saying that a main-brand computer that Costs X would cost X/3 if the consumer used the same prices and specs. . . .

I'm staunchly against Alienware because they add pretty lights that pique our darkness-loving gamer senses and charge excess of 2000 buckaroos for that and like, liquid-nitrogen coolant or some shit like that. . . .

I'm not a computer techie in terms of what are the best parts and stuff, it's all numbers to me. Yet, I'm concerned about functionality, and for $7000, my computer better be able to hack into NASA by pressing one button, fix me a smoothie, write my thesis, make my bed, clean my room, construct me sandwhiches, give me blowjobs, and recreate all that hentai I download into fully 3-D interactivite smut-fests, cause the only game I play is FFXI. . .

So I hope you do more than play Farcry and UT09 on that behemoth of Transformer breaking magnitude. Cause you could import a lot of mail-order brides for $7k, and be a lot more happier >.>