Opinions on two computer builds.

[TBoTB]

I'm in the process of building me a new comp and want some opinions on these two builds I’ve created. The case is the same in both builds and is subject to change (as long as it has 5+ fans i'm good). The main impact on price is of course, the CPU, Ram, Video card and the almighty Monitor. I included the monitor in each build simply because I don’t want space heater for a CRT sitting on my desk anymore although winter time is coming and it does, combined with my 27" flat screen Wega, keep my room nice and toasty (its always the warmest room in the house during winter keeping a steady 70 + degrees Fahrenheit while my TV and monitor are on). In a sense if you want to take price more into account you can subtract the monitor since I have two CRT's in my room I can use instead of the FP. The ram I choose is the same brand I use now and haven’t had a lick of problems with it so i'm not going to bother changing. ZipZoomFly is where I built my last computer with the exception of the case and peripherals that I bought from Best Buy and Wal-Mart (HDD, DVD, etc) and I haven’t had any problems what so ever with them. Just for the record, I compared the high end build price structure of ZZF to that of Newegg and the only difference in the total is about 50 once you add up the $3 here and $5 there of certain hardware (although I do have spare drives and stuff to help take down the price if need be, I wanted a complete new system). Last, unless you are prepared to post the rating architecture of AMD and explain it to me don’t bother posting that AMD is better or more efficient or whatever since i wont know what your talking about ( i had to get Pai to explain to me what type of AMD computer i had gotten from a friend and what it was in intel terms.)

High End Computer System Via ZipZoomFly
(Dual Core 3.2Ghz CPU w/ 19” Monitor,
512RX800XL/PCI-E Video)
$2010.94

ZZF – Motherboard – 241178
MSI 945P Platinum 945P P4/Pentium D/Celeron D 1066FSB LGA775 DDR2 ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***533/800/1066FSB, ATA/100, 4DDR2 DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 2 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA ($25.00 Mail-In-Rebate)
ZZF – Motherboard – 241178: $152.99

ZZF – Processor – 80832
Intel Pentium® D Processor 840 3.2GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 2x1MB Cache, Dual Core Retail ***Free 2nd Day***w/Fan and Heatsink, 2x1MB Cache, 90nm. FREE Underground 2 & Digital Home Starter Pack CD w/purchase! While supplies last.
ZZF – Processor – 80832: $538.00

ZZF – Video Card – 324049
Abit Fatal1ty X800 XL Radeon X800 XL PCI Express 512MB DDR3 Video Card w/HDTV-Out & DVI Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Video Card – 324049: $399.00

ZZF – Case – 370459
Thermaltake Gaming Tower XaserV WinGo V7000D Full Tower Case Retail
w/o Power Supply
ZZF – Case – 370459: $74.99

ZZF – Power Supply – 370562
Thermatalke W0057RUC PurePower TWV500W 500W w/Active PFC Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Power Supply – 370562: $120.99

ZZF – Memory x2– 85018-51 (x2)
Kingston HyperX KHX5400D2/512 512MB DDR2-675 PC2-5400 Memory w/Heat Spreader Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Memory x2– 85018-51: $212.00

ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3
Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500SD 250GB Serial ATA 7200RPM w/8MB Buffer ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3: $121.00

ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050
NEC 1.44MB 3.5in Internal Floppy Disk Drive (Beige) ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050: $12.99

ZZF – Monitor – 232385
Samsung 915N-BLACK SyncMaster 19in Analog LCD Monitor (Black) Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Monitor – 232385: $349.99

ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434
Sony DDU1615 16X IDE DVD-ROM w/PowerDVD 4.0 Software (Beige) *** Free 2nd Day ***
ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434: $28.00

(Keyboard/mouse supplied)

What I wanted info on here is how effective would a dual core processor be for gaming. I was going to pick the 3.6ghz for this build but thought that dual core would be just as good and better in the long run since I don’t want to go through this for another year and a half to two years. I got the 512 MB video card idea from Pai and thought I throw that in there (although its not XT, XL should be good enough right?) Cant go wrong with a 19" FP with an insane response time and 700:1 contrasts. That is my high-end computer weighing in at two grand >.<. Pretty affordable if you exclude the impending release of the xbox360, I could build this within two months.

Next is the:

Real End Computer System Via ZipZoomFly
(3.4Ghz w/ 17” Monitor,
256RX850XT/PCI-E Video)
$1594.94

ZZF – Motherboard – 241178
MSI 945P Platinum 945P P4/Pentium D/Celeron D 1066FSB LGA775 DDR2 ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***533/800/1066FSB, ATA/100, 4DDR2 DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 2 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA ($25.00 Mail-In-Rebate)
ZZF – Motherboard – 241178: $152.99

ZZF – Processor – 80822
Intel Pentium® 4 650 Processor Prescott 3.4GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 2MB Cache Retail ***Free 2nd Day***w/Fan and Heatsink, 2MB Cache, 90nm. FREE Underground 2 w/purchase! While supplies last.
ZZF – CPU – 80822: $272.00

ZZF – Video Card – 321335
ATI Radeon X850 XT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/HDTV-Out & DVI Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Video Card – 321335: $339.99

ZZF – Case – 370459
Thermaltake Gaming Tower XaserV WinGo V7000D Full Tower Case Retail
w/o Power Supply
ZZF – Case – 370459: $74.99

ZZF – Power Supply – 370562
Thermatalke W0057RUC PurePower TWV500W 500W w/Active PFC Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Power Supply – 370562: $120.99

ZZF – Memory x2– 85018-51 (x2)
Kingston HyperX KHX5400D2/512 512MB DDR2-675 PC2-5400 Memory w/Heat Spreader Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Memory x2– 85018-51: $212.00

ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3
Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500SD 250GB Serial ATA 7200RPM w/8MB Buffer ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3: $121.00

ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050
NEC 1.44MB 3.5in Internal Floppy Disk Drive (Beige) ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050: $12.99

ZZF – Monitor – 232270
Samsung 710N-2 BLACK SyncMaster 17in Analog LCD Monitor (Black) Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Monitor – 232270: $259.99

ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434
Sony DDU1615 16X IDE DVD-ROM w/PowerDVD 4.0 Software (Beige) *** Free 2nd Day ***
ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434: $28.00

(keyboard/mouse supplied)

I had to really rake my brain on this one >.<. I went with a 3.4ghz for it cost. I mean, paying almost $130 for another 200 MHz for the 3.6 isn’t that big of a deal to me. Also, this is still 1ghz over my current 2.4ghz machine. I figured for 339, about 60 less than the HE build it’s a good price for a 256 x800 XT so I picked that. Samsung ftw! Can’t beat the response time of 8ms (or 12, I forget which monitor was which) and still a good 700:1 contrast ratio.

To explain some stuff, floppies are necessary in some of my situations so that’s mandatory (especially since you can boot to dos with it) the DVD-ROM over dvd-rw16 is that I already have one on my current machine. When I build my new comp i'm going to leave my current machine as a media machine in burning/ripping/watching/encoding/transcoding/ all that crazy stuff. The new build is going to be a gaming machine primarily. I have 1gig Ram in my current build, why not 1gig to start off with in this one ^^? With my current machine as a media machine, i'm going to keep the two 160g HDD I have in their and just get a new drive (sATA II ftw!) the power supply is different, but i'm sure it will meet my needs. The motherboard is the uber; I use MSI now and have no problems so why fix something that is not broken.

Alas, I await your opinions unless proven with info and links as facts.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

ok, on the cpu front. most gamers will agree that AMD will give you more performance and at a better price.

comparison 1
Dual core(X2 is the designation)

prices from early sept.

personally, i don't think going dual core for gaming is worth it just yet. not enough games currently/in-the-pipeline to take advantage/optimize for it. save the money by going single core and use that on a better video card, you'll notice that performance more.

on the video card front, the X800XL and X850XT are both very good cards. otoh, i think you are spending needless money on the fatality "brand." If you are spending that much money on a X850XT, consider looking at the Geforce 7800s.

Comparison at bottom of page

Everything else looks fine, but I think a 17in LCD would be the better pick over the 19in. First, they are the same max resolution so you are not paying for anything more than "wider" pixels. Again, use the money you save here to put in the VC.

Might also want to consider going with a Combo drive as those are only a couple of bucks more.

[TBoTB]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

I've been looking through ZZF and havent seen a DDRII supported motherboard yet? Does AMD Athlon support it or is it just i need to go to a different site?

And on the vide card note, i havent even considered Nvidia since i went from geforce 4mx to raedon 9600pro. are you saying, comparing one PCI-e with the other, that Nvidia is better price vs power wise?

[neighbortaru]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

AMD Athlons still use regular DDR. The move to DDR2 won't happen until well into next year when they'll switch over to a different socket (M2).

Nvidia and ATI are pretty competitive at the high end of the spectrum. nvidia has traditionally performed better on open gl games so if you forsee playing those games (e.g. quake 4) in the future, don't completely discount the geforce cards.

Here's a price comparison from august: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2499&p=2

[TBoTB]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

Well, i have no way of paticularly knowing what type of game i will be playing in the future as far as whether it will be OpenGL or D3D. How does the Nvidia 7800s stack against the x800s as far as D3D performance?

::edit::

I read down that article a little more. Intresting information.

Double Post Edited:
Here is my AMD build ~.~ only $101.01 more than my Real End build and #314.99 less than my High End build. Is this any good? Do you think the low speed memory will be a bottle neck for the processor or video card?

AMD Computer System Via ZipZoomFly
(A64 4000+/ 17” Monitor,
7800GT 256MB/PCI-E Video)
$1695.95

ZZF – Motherboard – 241159
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum/SLI nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***1000FSB, ATA/133, 4DDR DIMM, 2 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB, IEEE 1394, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA ($25.00 Mail-In-Rebate)
ZZF – Motherboard – 241159: $166.00

ZZF – Processor – 80724-R
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ Processor (ClawHammer) Socket 939 Retail ***Free 2nd Day***w/Fan and Heatsink, 3 Years Manufacturer Warranty
ZZF – Processor – 80724-R: $374.00

ZZF – Memory – 80097-20
Kingston HyperX KHX3200AK2/1G 1GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 Memory w/Heat Spreader Retail *** Free 2nd Day ***Lifetime Warranty.
ZZF – Memory – 80097-20: $158.00

ZZF – Video Card - 322915
PNY Verto Geforce 7800 GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/HDTV-Out, Dual DVI & VIVO Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Video Card – 322915: $379.99

ZZF – Case – 370459
Thermaltake Gaming Tower XaserV WinGo V7000D Full Tower Case Retail
w/o Power Supply
ZZF – Case – 370459: $74.99

ZZF – Power Supply – 370562
Thermatalke W0057RUC PurePower TWV500W 500W w/Active PFC Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Power Supply – 370562: $120.99

ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3
Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500SD 250GB Serial ATA 7200RPM w/8MB Buffer ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Hard Drive – 101220-3: $121.00

ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050
NEC 1.44MB 3.5in Internal Floppy Disk Drive (Beige) ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Floppy Drive – 703050: $12.99

ZZF – Monitor – 232270
Samsung 710N-2 BLACK SyncMaster 17in Analog LCD Monitor (Black) Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
ZZF – Monitor – 232270: $259.99

ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434
Sony DDU1615 16X IDE DVD-ROM w/PowerDVD 4.0 Software (Beige) *** Free 2nd Day ***
ZZF – DVD-ROM – 172434: $28.00

(keyboard/mouse supplied)

[neighbortaru]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

you'll be better off with the new 3800+ Venice E6 core (90mm fab, new memory controller, better overclocking): http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=2962

[TBoTB]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

Overclocking? Isn't the 3800+ almost equivilant to a P4 3.6(LGA775). I guess the 90nm fab would mean more transistors(sp?) on the die but is the 3800 that much better over the 4000? Is the 512k cache memory that little of a difference? Sorry for all the questions but if you know, i gotta get as much from you as possible ^^~.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

the 3800+ is actually faster than the P4 3.6 on many apps (games included). some people (like me) like to have the extra option to overclock.

what 90nm would mean to you however, is a much cooler running cpu. the E6 revision of the Venice core also has a newer memory controller that has more memory dividers.

Meanwhile, AMD quietly introduced a handful of new memory dividers in the latest revisions of their Athlon 64 and Athlon 64 X2 processors. These new memory dividers allow for memory clock speeds above DDR400 to be enabled without overclocking the Hyper Transport bus. The beauty of these new memory dividers is that owners of faster-than-DDR400 memory can take advantage of the extra bandwidth offered by their modules, without overclocking their CPUs or the rest of their system.

as for what that 512k cache will do for you, check the comparison 1 link in the first post i made.

[TBoTB]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

i found this site:

http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_a64-4000/

im currently still reading through it. as for you quote, so what your saying is i can use faster DDR memory and not suffer incompatability issues with the A64 3800/4000 +?

I guess i should take a look into a good heatsink and or heatsink/fan combo if overclocking by a little can get alot of peformance.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Opinions on two computer builds.

no it's not so much incompatability as it's native support. think of it this way:

the AMD64 was built with an integrated memory controller that runs the cpu and memory on a 400Mhz bus. This is a 1:1 ratio. Now what happens if you have 500Mhz memory? unless you have the proper divider (4:5), you won't be able to achieve full 500Mhz memory speed by sticking to a 400Mhz bus. Thus you'll need to overclock the bus to get full speed out of your memory now.

But with the right divider (the E6 Venice core adds a bunch more to the exisiting ones), you won't have to overclock the bus and still get the full speed out of your RAM.

The thing with the 4000+ chip is that there are no E6 Venice cores out for it in the retail space yet (you can tell because of the BX ending of the part numbers). Highest E6 Venice is the 3800+ atm.