Athlon vs Intel. Help on buying a computer

[ajg126]

Im going to buy a new copmputer so i can play ffxi, and i have detemrined that the most cost effective method is to build a computer, which i can do do. I will get a radeon 9600 pro, 512 ram (not sure which brand, suggestions would be appreciated) dvd-rom drive, and like 80 gig harddrive. Im still not sure however which processor and motherboard i want to get. I was pretty set on an AMD athlon XP barton 2800+ and ASUS A7N8X motherboard, but i dunno if that would stack up so well against an intel motherboard and P4 2.8 processor. the price range for those 2 are both around like 400 dollars combined ( motherboard and processor) so any suggestions you may have based on this setup would be greatly appreicated

[Elucid]

suggestion

you can pick up an abit NF7-S motherboard for 115ish. This motherboard is based on the nforce2 chipset (if you do get one, make sure to get revision 2.0) which means it supports duel channel memory. This board also has a built in sound card which some people say is good enough, but some also say to get a PCI sound card. Abit is also known as one of the leading motherboard companies in the business, comes with overclocking tools, hardware controlled processor temp monitor (shuts off the computer is CPU gets to hot), and good performance.

You can also pick up a AMD 2500+ barton (333mhz FSB) for about 87 dollars...brining your mobo/proc combo to 200 rather then 400. If your looking to save a few bucks AMD has the best performance:price ratio in this price bracket. If you want to spend a few more bucks (like 150-200 more for the mobo/proc combo, plus more expensive RAM) a p4 2.8C 800mhz FSB will perform better.

radeon 9600 is about as good as it gets for a nice performance : price ratio but some people argue that a geforce4 TI 4xxx runs better on ff11 (i don't personally believe it but some people swear by it).

memory will depend a lot on what kind of motherboard and processor you get. AMD bartons run at 333mhz FSB so if you get one of those make sure to get DDR2700 (333mhz) memory. newer pentiums run at 200mhz (400mhz DDR and "quad pumped" to 800mhz effective fsb) so you will want PC3200 (400mhz) memory. If you get a motherboard that supports duel channel ram you will want to buy a matched set of ram (a little more expensive but it is a big performance booster). For the above suggestion (Abit NF7-S motherboard with a AMD 2500+ barton) I would suggest getting 512mb of corsair value choice MATCHED PAIR (2x256mb chips) of PC_2700_ memory, if you have amotherboard with duel channel support the only way to assure your taking advantage of it is to get MATCHED memory. (getting pc2100 or pc3200 will give a performance HIT in this case). If you decide on a p4 based system corsair, crucial, and kingston are good choices for ram (duel channel memory is not common on the mid-range p4 boards, usually reserved for the higher cost boards)

Places to buy stuff:
www.newegg.com
www.pricewatch.com

Places to read hardware reviews:
www.tomshardware.com
www.firingsquad.com/hardware/
www.cluboc.net/reviews/

[HexiumVII]

i currently have 2 3.2GHz HT P4s. I also build tons of computers. Get an Athlon

As for video the Geforce Ti are the best right now, until maybe something like Doom3 or HL2, even then DX9 looks pretty overrated.

[Galaed]

hope this helps any.

Hrm.. Im not that much of a computer whiz, but everything I brought for my computer I got from newegg.com ... if I may say so.. GREAT online company. Top notch shipping and best prices. Dont shop from pricewatch, too many shady business out there. You're bound to get ripped off sooner or later.
And like the guy said, this game was based off the GeForce Ti series I do believe, and the only geforce series now thats faster than the gf ti graphics chip is the geforce fx ultra 5900 256mb... all the rest of the ultras actually run slower than any of the ti series i believe.

you dont need a 2.8ghz pentium.. either way you go thats so much more expensive than any athlon, and really isnt that much better if any imho.

i have an athlon 2.4xp+, 1gig of pc2100 ddram, a geforce ti 4800se 128mb video card (which i reccomend for this game, the best ti series, no conflicts whatsoever with the game). and i get a 3650+ in hi res. the games beautiful for me, and im sure this system is even cheaper now. i suggest any mobos from asus when making an athlon system. thats just me personally, and generally the suggestion from every other person ive talked to when making an athlon system. generally, people have said athlon is better for gaming. so yeah, there ya go.

just someone who has taken in a lot of ideas to make a system, and save some money. ive been happy with my system. hope this helps in any way.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Definitely go with the a7n8x Deluxe. It of course is a Nforce 2 chipset, and it has great overclockability/stability. I have it and a 2500+, you go into bios set it to 200 and bam, you got yourself a Ahtlon 3.2 ghz (actually in specs it shows that its a little better than an actual 3.2 ghz).

The board gots tons of bells and whistles, and definitely doesnt dissapoint!

[Wafflesrevenge]

same position

I was in your same exact situation. I in the ended decide the A7N8X *DELUXE* was the mobo to go with and it makes an excellent base. It is based off the nforce2 technolgy specificly the ultra400(which means dual channel and 400fsb which will give you all the power you need for ffxi) second it has another bonus on the southbridge the MCP-T which opposed to the MCP comes with a APU(does the audio processing on the southbridge INSTEAD of on your processor!) also allowing 5.1 surround sound plus a second built on ethernet adapter, more firewire, etc etc) so in the end the A7N8X from newegg @ 120 wulong is just an amazing deal trust me I researched every possible amd mobo I could and this one came out on top

so then processor is really simple...333fsb is gonna be a better performence/price ratio compared to the 400fsb so heres the breakdown of performance/price (all are retail)
Barton 2500 1.83Ghz/$92 = 19.89 Mhz/dollar
Barton 2600 1.9Ghz/$104 = 18.26 Mhz/dollar
Thourghbred 2700 2.17Ghz/$121 = 17.933 Mhz/dollar
*this has a 256k cache compared to 512k with the rest*
Barton 2800 2.08 Ghz/$144 = 14.44 Mhz/dollar
Barton 3000 2.16 Ghz/$205 = 10.53 Mhz/dollar

so as you can see the better processor you get the better deal you are getting in reality but then again a barton 2600 with a $40 Heatsink fan *CAN* be overclocked into the Barton 3000 range and beyond...of course that should be left to the people who know what they are doin...

What about Ram though you may ask? I heard someone recomend value select...this is not the best idea for a A7N8X (although not out of the picture). When it comes to the A7N8X I seriously recomend looking at some serious ram for a couple of reasons. First it is simply finicky and will tend to have problems with some none-name brand RAM/value select stuff. Second if you plan on overclocking defintly go for pc3200 ram because pc2700 will not do the job of keeping in sync with the processor. So in the end dual ddr PC3200 ram x 512 will probably be the best deal depending on before mentioned points. Lastly keep in mind that with the dual 256chips you can can then throw both into the first 2 ram slots toss a single 512 chip that is similar in and have a cool gig of ram.

You mentioned the harddrive then. I of course recomend going serial if you can afford it if not just be sure to get at least 7200RPM and an 8meg cache

I'm no pro but in september I decied to build a computer and did *a lot* of researching on these topics in depth and am currently running a A7N8X Deluxe, Barton 2600 retail, and a single stick of corsair 512 pc3200C2PT (waiting for paycheck to get the second!), 80GB WD 8meg cache, & GeForce2 MX!!!! (christ and it runs FFXI) well I run FFXI on about medium settings and the only thing holding me back is my video card and I don't have any performance issues.

For the Mobo, Processor, Ram I paid 346 wulong on newegg got free shipping 2 pens and a shirt!!

So um thats just my biased view take it as you will
this was a long post if anyone notices anything wrong holla
peace - Diconardo Le'Ladys - Lakshmi - 14 theif

[Galaed]

RE: Intel vs Athlon

right, sorry, thanks for the previous two posts guys. i forgot to mention i got the a7n8x deluxe version too. ive not had one problem at all... i dont have the barton core on my mobo, but with prices like the ones at newegg, im seriously considering getting a 2.6 or 2.8xp+ barton and then upgrading memory. i'd suggest crucial if you go memory, always go for namebrand memory. and also make sure to get memory thats relative to your processor fsb. and also, PAIR your memory. dont get one stick of 1gig or one stick of 512... and if you do get 512 get two sticks of 256, not just one stick. memory works better in pairs.. and in certain slots i think. someone help me out further on this one, waffles sounds like he knows what hes talking about :p so if i upgraded to like athlon 2.6xp+ or 2.8xp+ what memory speed should i get?

[Galaed]

re:

didnt mean the barton core on my mobo, meant on my processor. sorry, its like 5 in the morning :p

[Wafflesrevenge]

upgrading

welp if your upgrading to a barton 2.6 pr 2.8 they run at 333fsb so pc2700(333fsb) will work if your on budget. Otherwise if you plan on overclocking go pc3200(400fsb). I have pc3200 ram running with a 2.6 barton @333fsb and I seem to have no problems

As for what slots think of it like this there are two highways running from your ram <---> processor the first two slots use the first highway and the third and last slot uses the second highway. In order to be using DDR both must be using the same amount of ram.

I think that should make sense....its gawd awful early and I was up gawd awful late and I'm cold so I'm off to work

Diconardo Le'Ladys - Lakshmi - 14 theif

PS I taught myself all this hardware stuff from just browsing the net and reading stuff...www.tomshardware.com has some articles that explain the real nitty grittys btw

[Elucid]

"value select" is not some cheap name i was recommending, Corsair (the same guys who make XMS low latency ram arguably the best on the market, and offer a lifetime warrenty, and one of the most respected names in the enthusiest market) have a "value select" matched pair set of ram. Its not bad or generic ram its just not their high priced XMS stuff and if you want to take full advantage of duel channel ram (it really does make a large difference) you need to get a matched set of ram, the corsair value select is from a very trusted company and affordable. the reason i recommended PC2700 was because its hard to overclock a barton to 200fsb from 166fsb and not very stable, most people mess with the multiplier and leave the FSB. running PC3200 @ 333fsb gives a performance HIT in a duel channel nforce2 board. Your computer will run WORSE with faster ram in this configuration. The choice of A7N8X over NF7 is not to big, both are great boards, I just happen to like abit's bios and customer support so i recommended it. Just because the board has DDR400 support doesn't mean that you should run DDR400, if your processor is a 166mhz (333ddr) then thats what you should run unless your sure that you can reliably overclock to 200mhz (400DDR, which i don't see anyone doing stable)

[Elucid]

also want to respond to a couple things Wafflesrevenge said.

first of all don't get a "Thourghbred 2700 2.17Ghz/$121 = 17.933 Mhz/dollar" its old outdated technology with a slow FSB. another thing he said, putting 2x256 chips in the duel channel slots and a 512 in a 3rd slot is a bad idea. Duel channel memory works ONLY when you have two matched sticks of ram in the duel channel slots (1 & 3 i think). the other slots must be empty, and the ram you use must be the same. You don't need to buy a matched set of ram, you could get lucky and buy 2 cheaper sticks of the same company, capacity, and speed, and hope they run together in duel channel configuration, but its better to just be assured and fork over the extra 20 bucks to buy a matched set. the difference between a single 512 stick and 2x256 matched pair in duel channel configuration is huge, the memory bandwidth is MUST higher and one of the major reasons AMD was able to compete with intel (intel mobos cost more money for duel channel and some run rambus). he also suggested serial ATA (SATA) which is a bad idea at this time. The bandwidth of your motherboard's north and south bridge is not enough to take advantage of SATA (10k rpm) the other boards that can do this are the AMD64 boards (6.4gb/s bandwidth) and some pentium boards that put the SATA on the northbride rather then the southbridge. He also got a geforce2 MX, this card is a real PoS (I know, i have one in one of my comps) one of the abit NF7 models has a built in video card that is better then this (geforce4 mx, not much better but still a bit more powerful). He also mentions his pc3200 ram running fine with his 333mhz processor, while this is true he won't see any conflicts, pc2700 consistantly runs much better then pc3200 in barton based duel channel motherboards in MANY benchmarks. and also to the guy who said pentiuym 2.8 isn't much better...the p4 2.4C (the C is important) is probably the best chip on the market now as far as price:performance goes. This system is a bit more expensive then a AMD system, but a 2.4 that people have overclocked to 3-3.2ghz with nice cooling (water or pelitier i can't remember) blows anything AMD has (except of course the AMD64-fx 51...which i want to have my babies *drool*)

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Ild like to point out im using the A7n8x deluxe at 400mhz FSB stable, also with dual channel 3200 ram (two matching sets of generic ram i bought from Infotech, which has actual stores where i live).

I also bought a 30$ heatsink for my CPU, that is the biggest freakin thing i have ever seen with a big fan(it even cools my mobo). On a full load my cpu stays at about 115 F. Normally it stays around 100 or under i believe.

I also got 4 fans, a blow hole, a side fan, and 2 back fans.

[Doppelganger]

Originally posted by Uchiha Sasuke

I also bought a 30$ heatsink for my CPU, that is the biggest freakin thing i have ever seen with a big fan(it even cools my mobo). On a full load my cpu stays at about 115 F. Normally it stays around 100 or under i believe.

I also got 4 fans, a blow hole, a side fan, and 2 back fans.

does that comp come with an internal smoke detector too?

the cheapest athalon that does very well in games is the 2800+, so go for that. if you think that athalons are as good as the intel counterparts, just remember that most athalons are limited to a 333mh ram (400mh ram loses a lot of proformance for price, so it's not even worth getting pc 3200). this does not include the fact that a hyper-threading p4 will out proform an athalon xp in a NORMAL environment (the type most people use, not stripped down windows that takes up 10mb ram). if you have the money, go 2.8 or higher p4 on an intel 875 mobo (dual channel pc 3200, prescott support )

[Aludra]

I'd get a P4 2.4C and a decent Intel 865 based motherboard. That will overclock way better and cooler than any AMD CPU.

I'd recommend the Abit IS7 motherboard if you're on a tight budget. You can get one of those for a little over $100, and a P4 2.4C for $170. Then if you spend ~$50 or so on a new heatsink and fan you can get it to a good 3.3GHz and about 1100MHz FSB which will wayyyyy outperform an AMD chip.

Here's a good review: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/revie...2.4c/index.htm

[Uchiha Sasuke]

I didnt mention in my last post, but im using a 2500+@ 3200+. 700mhz OC i consider pretty damn good, the barton chip is great.