Why does everyone say dubs suck?

[Black Heart]

Seems like wherever I go online, I hear people complain about dubbing. Just in the Inuyasha thread someone was bashing on the dubbing in that series (which I think is pretty damn good). Pen^2 (who I very rarely agree with on anything) says the dubbing in Xenosaga sucks. People say the dubbing in Evangelion sucks. I hear people say dubbing in just about anything...sucks.

What exactly is it with anime fans (or "otakus" as some idiots call themselves) that makes them feel like they are masters of pheonetics and language that if something isn't in Japanese, it sounds horrible and befouling? I mean, how many people that say "dubbing sucks" on most of anything actually comprehend and fluently speak both Japanese and English so that they can make an accurate comparison?

This is not a "dub vs sub" thread. That is strictly preference. I understand that many people prefer subtitled to dubbing and vice versa.

I just don't see why so many fans of anime have to be so critical about something that (in my opinion) is done pretty well most times.

Its not as if these localization companies have millions of dollars to spend finding the most perfect voice actors for every part, and are able to get thousands of auditions from voice actors willing to work. In the American Anime voice acting business, there aren't that many actors, even in Japan you see the same VAs used over and over (I mean, I like Megumi Hayashibara, but good lord shes been a VA in about a million different shows now).
So its not like casting directors have a huge variety to choose from.

Maybe people just like to be negative or it's "in style" to say dubs suck. *shrugs*

[DarkKnight]

i dont mind dubs if done well but sometimes the lessen the effectivenss to how good the anime can be with using subs

[Red Nibia]

What upsets fans is when they change the meaning of something during the translation process purposely. For the following reasons...
synchronizing the spoken words with the lip movements
censoring something because we find different things to be obscene
attempt to "improve" on dialogue

these are often done very carelessly. Often characters will say things they are not suppposed to know yet. Or comment on things they really didn't comment on. For the most part, it doesn't really change anything important. However it upsets fans when things are changed needlessly. Specially if say, a character is looking at a staff and in the original comments on the rarity of it. But in the dub they look at the staff and comment on the wielder of it. It doesn't really matter. But it certainly makes the person who's commenting on it seem a little stranger. I mean, what if someone in real life leaned in close and stared at your pencil and then commented on your hair. They'd seem quirky and odd. And a lot of people are drawn away from anime because of just that. The translation adds a needless oddness to it.

[Melkaiah]

Some dubbing does suck. But as has been slightly stated, it is a matter of censoring usually or culture differences. They try to make it sound more like the dialog that we NAs use. And it usually sounds good to us because we don't know better. But I find that sometimes in the translation some moments that have a underlying meaning are lost. And this is once again due to culture differences. Which is a shame really. I do prefer dubbing though..as long as I don't know I'm missing something.

[Pai Pai Master]

i dont blame dubs for being less popular than the original japanese dialogue. i mean, it's frickin hard to rewrite the original script so it maintains the same meaning and fit it to the voice movements, which are already animated. there are many excellent dubs, such as Spirited Away and Cowboy Bebop.

[cloud_nine]

Ah.. .. Let me tell you that dubbing isn't the only problem, it's only part of it the bigger picture. The entire translation is what bothers most anime fans.

~Bad editing/clipped scenes because of time constraints, *censorship*, or that it didn't make sense to those who were editing it.

~Voiceovers that really don't match the characters personality. usually 3rd rate voice actors portraying sieyuus who normally have years of experience. Megumi Hayashibara is a great sieyuu and I would rather listen to her than someone with a country accent *shudders*

~Translation errors, Americaization of dialogue *New york accent to fill in for kansai accent >_<* Total speech pattern rewrite, high notes end with lows.

~OST tampering. Changing the music to tracks that totally don't fit the series. Sound effects are dampened in most cases. Entire tracks are taken out, even the series' opening (i.e. Hack//Sign)

So when most 'otakus' complain about bad dubbing they complaing about the crappy translation in whole. That is why most people would rather get their anime unedited, as it was meant to be seen. So there are a few good dubs out there, big deal. The bad ones far, FAR outwiegh the good.

If you prefer dubs, then by all means watch it to your hearts content. But calling anime fans idiots because they support original anime goes past the line.
Somehow it just ticks me off to have a newbie stereotyping an entire community of fans >< *draws out katana* They really deserve an apology...

[Rico]

Hey its not really a problem for me but if it had no dubbing its always better I like seeing in japanse withing subing

[Apoc]

Re:

What upsets fans is when they change the meaning of something during the translation process purposely. For the following reasons...

I totally agree with this such as when I was a fan of DBZ a few years back when vegeta would get a away he would just simply say "Darn" instead of in the japanese version he would saying something such as "That Bastard" or "Fucking ...." I can understand the censorship in it but to change the character personality to that of a three year olds is just horrible...

[TB_Iris]

rofl..wasn't Hercule named Satan in the Japanese version of DBZ?

[Black Heart]

I understand why people would get angry about translation and censorship.

With bad voice acting aside, would a slight change in meaning or translation turn a bad show into a good one? Would a little bit of oddness spoil a good series? I don't think so. If you are so fickle or eccentric that the minor things about a series will make you hate it, then you really shouldn't insult something so fervently. I enjoy many of the series I watch, and I don't think that little things like the semantics of what a character originally said, or a slight plot change would detract from my overall enjoyment. But thats just me.

The only real censorship however is on shows that are broadcast on American television, which I can understand. I mean, real anime fans aren't going to be watching American television to find great anime.

[Drive]

Originally posted by cloud_nine
*draws out katana*

Do you even have a katana. I do but I agreed with Black Heart.

[Kilgraw]

Originally posted by Black Heart
I dont think a slight plot change would detract from my overall enjoyment.

Have you ever read a book then watched the movie afterwards, and found the movie changes disappointing? The same applies here.

[Orko]

My tiff with most dubbing is that it doesn't always suit the character. Example - Zelgadis in Slayers - He's got a real nasal voice in the Japanese dub that fluctuates according to the situation. The English dub makes him out to be an eternally bored individual from what I've heard of it. It completely changed his character which bugged the crap outta me.

The americanizing for US Broadcast is also to be expected, and some places do okay with it, but sometimes, it is very very bad... like one of many examples to be found in Pokemon, one I remember is how a rice ball (onigiri) was now apparently a triangular doughnut. :sweat: Another was Escaflowne on TV, where the editing department made the story so odd as to make it bad.

I've noticed however that fans of a series that start with one language version of the series will stick with and by that version. It in a way influences opinions on which is better... I stick with Japanese versions for the most part though as it's proven to be a study tool through the years, among other reasons. Although there is another key factor that seems to influence people in their choice of language - some don't like reading (or can't read fast enough) while trying to watch everything that's going on. Same thing goes in Japan with American movie releases, where movies like Lord of the Rings will be shown in theaters with the first showing dubbed in Japanese, and later showings in English w/Japanese subtitles.

An interesting side note - Japanese dubs of American movies aren't without their faults too. Every lead male has to have the deepest voice available. Remember the nerdy guy in the movie Stargate? Even HE has a super-deep Japanese voice in their version.

Anyway, this all really does boil down to personal preference, but keep in mind that there are some really horrendous dubs out there. Some which are made worse through tremendous amounts of editing for time / cultural differences / etc. That is all.

PS - http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail57.html

[Casval]

I mean, how many people that say "dubbing sucks" on most of anything actually comprehend and fluently speak both Japanese and English so that they can make an accurate comparison?

*raises hand* Its quite useful to be a bilingual anime fan



I dislike dubs for many of the reasons stated here already, be it editing, censorship, "Americanization," or otherwise, but I also agree with the idea of the inherent difficulty of translations and the relatively small changes that are unavoidable and usually unnoticable


lately I've come to believe that the bottom line to all of this is that there is a need right now for talented and dedicated voice actors in America who are willing to do voice-overs for anime, and that this step is a crucial one to the mainstream development of anime in American society

however, I don't think good dubs are possible at this point in time, simply because of the lack of a market for accurate and unedited dubs

I will agree that Cowboy Bebop had a decent dub, but the majority do not simply because the current mass market for anime is not interested in accuracy

after a few more years of Cartoon Network-esque dubs, we should start to see a movement towards better translations and voice acting, as more anime becomes accepted, society will move away from requiring "Americanized" anime and progress will be made, but that progress will not be in the form of subs, but good dubs

[Stryker]

Originally posted by cloud_nine
~OST tampering. Changing the music to tracks that totally don't fit the series. Sound effects are dampened in most cases. Entire tracks are taken out, even the series' opening (i.e. Hack//Sign)

Yeah but thats not a bad thing if they redo it with a powerman5000 theam!!!!!



hell, i'd even watch pokemon if it was all powerman'd out