Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

[KamuroIshigami]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

And to continue the above post, but in a more personal context NOT as Admin of FFXIOnline.com.

The United States does not (for quite some time) recognize Taiwan as a country, and recognized the island as belonging to the People's Republic of China (mainland) for quite some time. So, on a political technicality, I do have to be specific to say that Taiwan is excluded from the IP Ban. So, in political theory, if mainland China decides to "excerise their sovereignty", the most we could do is raise a stink when mainland China sends an army to "subdue" Taiwan.

Though on a more personal level, while I do hope that one day all of China will be a true free republic, and if the fellow brothers/sisters in Taiwan would like to be reunited with the remainder of China (though I do not mind if they remain separate); I still find the "democracy" and the government of Taiwan a total disgrace to the free world. I cringe everytime I see their election rallies almost (if not actually) turn into a riot, and the parlament/congress having brawls on the Legistlative floor. Any candidate or official that even does that in most Western nations would practically have committed political suicide.

As for South Korea, a similar non-recognition also is present. And technically the war is still going as to figure out which Korea is really Korea. (Since it was only a cease fire.)

[Mhurron]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

And to continue the above post, but in a more personal context NOT as Admin of FFXIOnline.com.
The United States does not (for quite some time) recognize Taiwan as a country, and recognized the island as belonging to the People's Republic of China (mainland) for quite some time. So, on a political technicality, I do have to be specific to say that Taiwan is excluded from the IP Ban. So, in political theory, if mainland China decides to "excerise their sovereignty", the most we could do is raise a stink when mainland China sends an army to "subdue" Taiwan.
Though on a more personal level, while I do hope that one day all of China will be a true free republic, and if the fellow brothers/sisters in Taiwan would like to be reunited with the remainder of China (though I do not mind if they remain separate); I still find the "democracy" and the government of Taiwan a total disgrace to the free world. I cringe everytime I see their election rallies almost (if not actually) turn into a riot, and the parlament/congress having brawls on the Legistlative floor. Any candidate or official that even does that in most Western nations would practically have committed political suicide.
As for South Korea, a similar non-recognition also is present. And technically the war is still going as to figure out which Korea is really Korea. (Since it was only a cease fire.)

Damn freeloading Canadians

Canada sucks.

[Feba]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

Canada sucks.

That was a good episode.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

The United States does not (for quite some time) recognize Taiwan as a country, and recognized the island as belonging to the People's Republic of China (mainland) for quite some time.

Oh, I don't know about the "belonging" part. It seems to be the understanding that U.S. will respond with its military if China tries to take Taiwan by force. (Hence the several deployment of U.S. warships to the area when China tried to play hardball with missile tests and war games at sea.)

U.S. seem to think a nation exercising its sovereignty to subduing a "rebel" group/province is a good thing, hence all the (military) aide to Columbian government and others. That the U.S. government don't see it as part of Chinese sovereignty to put down Taiwan does hint to a more nuanced position than "Taiwan is a part of China", IMO.

I just find non-Taiwanese's assumption that "Taiwan is a part of China" to be overly simplistic (and annoying). Honestly, while they are close (and wary) business partners with long historic ties and conflicts, the two countries hadn't shared a common government for but a few chaotic years in the last century. (It's a good thing, too; I wouldn't the PRC's government on anyone, least of all Taiwan.)

Though on a more personal level, while I do hope that one day all of China will be a true free republic, and if the fellow brothers/sisters in Taiwan would like to be reunited with the remainder of China (though I do not mind if they remain separate)

A real democratic China may be more enticing for Taiwan to join. Then again, something more akin to the EU or the British Commonwealth model may be appropriate. The more realistic question is whether China wants to be "more democratic".

I still find the "democracy" and the government of Taiwan a total disgrace to the free world. I cringe everytime I see their election rallies almost (if not actually) turn into a riot, and the parlament/congress having brawls on the Legistlative floor. Any candidate or official that even does that in most Western nations would practically have committed political suicide.

Are they still doing the brawls? lol. Those started with the opposition party not being able to make speeches on the floor because KMT members just block them. It was an ingenious (if unseemly) way to get media to pay attention to their messages.

Speaking of the media, the foundation of democracy is free speech and the presses (now media's) willingness to report on important voices in political life. Taiwan is there already. (Though could use much more objectivity in reporting. lol)

China? Unhappy with state control of all media and just filtering Internet to make sure Chinese don't know a significant (but small) minority of Taiwanese favor outright declaring independence, they are now cracking down on bloggers from China. Seems like every technological advancement is a new opportunity for that country to control the thoughts of its people.

As for South Korea, a similar non-recognition also is present. And technically the war is still going as to figure out which Korea is really Korea. (Since it was only a cease fire.)

I don't know that much about Korea, but UN lists both North Korea and South Korea as members since 1991. (I'm kinda jealous; why they can have separate membership, but Taiwan and China can't? T_T )

There is no one "real" Korea--but there is a Republic of Korea, and a Democratic People's Republic of Korea. For the moment. Unlike Taiwanese who largely prefer the current situation (de facto country) over confrontation or "reunion" with China, I think both North and South Koreans still want to form a single country some time in the future. Though, it's rather hard to say what North Koreans want, being so isolated and secretive.

[Omniblast]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

I know this will upset a lot of people but why is it that when any other country other than America takes similar actions there is almost no outrage, but as soon as something like this happens in America, then everyone expects someone to be sued or fired.(talk about hypacritical behavior)

ffxionline != America

You might want to keep that blind patriotism in check, it will make you say silly things.

I really think Mhurron needs to re-read that quote.

DR2D2 is basically saying, why is it ok for other countries to do it, but if America does it, it's a big outrage.

Unless of course I really don't understand what both of them is talking about, if that's the case, I'm just going to exit out of this conversation as everything that needs to be said is pretty much said.

[Omni]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

Taiwan had their chance to really push forward with making changes better for itself. The DPP struggled long and hard to get into office and once they get in they blow it. It makes me really sad but alas, is the politics of Taiwan.

The ROC title Taiwan has is more of a force fed title and relic of the KMT strangle hold they had over Taiwan in the early years after the war. Yea, Taiwan technically goes by that but to many of us, its an over-generalizing blanket statement which IfritnoItazura explains very well.

This is a pretty touchy subject which goes deeper into history, ethnicity, politics, tragedies, and nationalism (or the lack of) of Taiwan. I just can't keep myself from not commenting on a topic like this.

[KamuroIshigami]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

Oh, I don't know about the "belonging" part. It seems to be the understanding that U.S. will respond with its military if China tries to take Taiwan by force. (Hence the several deployment of U.S. warships to the area when China tried to play hardball with missile tests and war games at sea.)

U.S. seem to think a nation exercising its sovereignty to subduing a "rebel" group/province is a good thing, hence all the (military) aide to Columbian government and others. That the U.S. government don't see it as part of Chinese sovereignty to put down Taiwan does hint to a more nuanced position than "Taiwan is a part of China", IMO.

I just find non-Taiwanese's assumption that "Taiwan is a part of China" to be overly simplistic (and annoying). Honestly, while they are close (and wary) business partners with long historic ties and conflicts, the two countries hadn't shared a common government for but a few chaotic years in the last century. (It's a good thing, too; I wouldn't the PRC's government on anyone, least of all Taiwan.)


A real democratic China may be more enticing for Taiwan to join. Then again, something more akin to the EU or the British Commonwealth model may be appropriate. The more realistic question is whether China wants to be "more democratic".


Are they still doing the brawls? lol. Those started with the opposition party not being able to make speeches on the floor because KMT members just block them. It was an ingenious (if unseemly) way to get media to pay attention to their messages.

Speaking of the media, the foundation of democracy is free speech and the presses (now media's) willingness to report on important voices in political life. Taiwan is there already. (Though could use much more objectivity in reporting. lol)

China? Unhappy with state control of all media and just filtering Internet to make sure Chinese don't know a significant (but small) minority of Taiwanese favor outright declaring independence, they are now cracking down on bloggers from China. Seems like every technological advancement is a new opportunity for that country to control the thoughts of its people.

Well, the political status of Taiwan is actually a bit more complicated and we are both correct. Taiwan technically still claims to be the government of all of China, including Mainland and the Island of Formosa (Taiwan) and some parts of territories that are now belonging to Russia. So because of this claim, PRC is recognized and the U.S. does not recognize ROC as the government of the "greater China" (A term I make up here to include mainland and Taiwan and associated territories). So, because of the claims that ROC makes that it is the government of "greater China", the U.S. does not recognize the legitimacy of ROC. This is extremely evident with embassy exchanges, there are no Embassy of the Republic of China or Taiwan in the U.S., and there are no U.S. Embassies in Taiwan.

Our excuse of maintaining a military involvement has very little legal/treaty ground considering our recognition changes in the Nixon and Reagan years. The only thing is a matter of human rights issue in which we use as an excuse to prevent them from pulling out their sabers, rather than just rattling them.

Taiwan also cannot renounce the claim and simply go, yeah, we are a nation of the Island of Taiwan. As that would set off the PRC with their Anti-seccession law, since PRC claims Taiwan as part of China. Though if you think about the formation of the ROC government, they were originally one nation in a civil war.

I actually like the Commonwealth option the best, since it strikes a comprimise that is more appealing to Taiwan getting practically indepdenence, but without PRC having to back its own words since they are still part of the "family".

As for the brawls and rallies-almost-riots, yeah, they still happen here and there, and that is a major problem that really shakes my confidence of Taiwan's democracy. While the foundation of democracy is free speech through the media, the free speech has to be given equal opportunity, and the actions the Taiwan Diet/Congress/Paraliment does is not very conductive to democracy or a republic, and more of a aristocracy.

Both PRC and ROC needs major reforms in its political habits, attitudes, and structure.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Enactment of Regional Access Prohibition

Well, the political status of Taiwan is actually a bit more complicated [...] This is extremely evident with embassy exchanges, there are no Embassy of the Republic of China or Taiwan in the U.S., and there are no U.S. Embassies in Taiwan.

I'll agree to it being more complicated than I've depicted it. I still think you're overly hung up on the legal aspect of the overall reality, however.

For example, what does an embassy do? From government to government, it's a where diplomats are stationed and talk to foreign country leaders. U.S. does that with Taiwan, and Taiwan does that with U.S. (No direct high level contacts, of course, to placate China.)

For the people? It's basically a place to get visa/passport services. Well, my family came to U.S. legally--we definitely managed to get the documents.

The reality is that Taiwan is treated more like a country of its own than a province of China. U.S. let's people with Taiwanese passport into the country, after all.

Not that I disagree with your summary of the legal situation, of course, but that's hardly the entirety of reality. Hence, I claimed Taiwan is de facto a country--its own currency, stamps, elections, and embassy-ish thingies and all.

(An interesting side note: Japan didn't hand Taiwan back to (ROC) China; it handed the island to U.S., which then give it to the floundering KMT/ROC in part to boost claim that it is the legitimate government still in charge of "greater China".

There are oddball, hard-line revisionists like me who would claim since ROC/KMT didn't truly represent China at the time, the "return" of Taiwan to "China" didn't exactly happen, in some legal sense. Heck, we consider KMT to be invaders. How's that for your legal reality? )

Both PRC and ROC needs major reforms in its political habits, attitudes, and structure.

I'm biased; I think such reforms will come faster (and in less bloody fashion) in Taiwan.