FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

There's a difference between "it looks like FF" and "we have the exact same five races as the previous online FF we made, only one of them doesn't have an ugly tail anymore".

I mean, seriously, the same races have the same gender restrictions! It's like they're not even trying.

Yes, because Final Fantasy has never re-used things before.

Chocobos, Airships, Moogles, Cid, Shiva, Ifrit, Bahamut, Ramuh... stop me if you've heard any of this before. It shouldn't surprise you they'd reuse something.

Even in Final Fantasy spin-offs, races are revisited. All the Crystal Chronicles games do it. The Veira, Nou Mou and Hume races didn't first appear in FFXII, nor was that game the last we saw of them

Plus there are factions within the races this time, we only know of minor stat differences and differing character creations at this point, not what else might result from that.

Finally, SE tends to give some of these old elements fresh new spins. The nature of summons has been different in relation to the person summoning with almost every game in the series. The skill growth is usually different.

As for these races, they look like FFXI and that's where the similarity begins and ends so far as we know. Keeping the Galkan and Mithran counterparts is just as quirky as Dwarven women with beards. The Miqu'te and Roegadyn are just gender locked - either accept it or get over it. They didn't budge in FFXI on adding a second gender to these races, they likely won't this time, either.

People just get batshit over Final Fantasy. If they're not feigning surprise that SE reinvented Final Fantasy again and somehow expected a "return to form" (whatever that means), then they're complaining about the things that didn't change that probably didn't have to. Final Fantasy has its quirky little tropes, just like Star Trek will have a red ensign in most episodes, Spock will deem something illogical and Scotty will swear up and down he's pushed the Enterprise to its limits.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

As for these races, they look like FFXI and that's where the similarity begins and ends so far as we know. Keeping the Galkan and Mithran counterparts is just as quirky as Dwarven women with beards. The Miqu'te and Roegadyn are just gender locked - either accept it or get over it. They didn't budge in FFXI on adding a second gender to these races, they likely won't this time, either.

No one is complaining about crystals, or chocobos, or avatars/espers, or dual-wielding ninjas.

But you have to be a pretty battle-hardened fanboy to dismiss the "coincidence" that the five races in FFXIV are practically identical to the five races in the only other online FF... yet these races are nowhere to be found in any of the other 12 (13?) games.

Copying races is one thing. If XIV had chosen to copy the races from FFTA, I strongly doubt that people would be making the same complaints. But of all the FF games to "borrow" from, XI is just about the worst possible choice, unless you are intentionally trying to make a game that will immediately be perceived as a sequel.

In an MMORPG, the appearances of the avatars is arguably the single most distinctive aspect of the game. Yet for this ostensibly all-new game, Squenix has chosen the appearance of the avatars from the only other online FF. That, more than any other factor, will immediately cause people to infer that XIV is more of the same. Squenix is handicapping itself out of the gate.

If Capcom wanted to make an all-new fighting game that was a complete break from Street Fighter, they probably shouldn't make the main characters in the new game an asian guy with a white gi and a red headband, a white guy with fatigues and a flat-top, and a one-eyed Muay Thai kickboxer. If Nintendo wanted to make an all-new completely original adventure game, it probably shouldn't star a blonde elf with a green outfit and a magic sword.

Perception matters.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

FFXIII becomes FFXI-II

Huh, so the next online FF is going to have that Cloud girl and Shiva bikes in it? Go figure.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

If XIV had chosen to copy the races from FFTA, I strongly doubt that people would be making the same complaints. But of all the FF games to "borrow" from, XI is just about the worst possible choice, unless you are intentionally trying to make a game that will immediately be perceived as a sequel.

This is contradictory. If they had copied the races from any of the Ivalice games, what's stopping people from perceiving it as a sequel to the Ivalice storyline(s)? Likewise, the complaint that five of the races from FFXIV are similar to the races from FFXI is equally baseless; what point do you have in complaining about it?

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

No one is complaining about crystals, or chocobos, or avatars/espers, or dual-wielding ninjas.

But you have to be a pretty battle-hardened fanboy to dismiss the "coincidence" that the five races in FFXIV are practically identical to the five races in the only other online FF... yet these races are nowhere to be found in any of the other 12 (13?) games.

Copying races is one thing. If XIV had chosen to copy the races from FFTA, I strongly doubt that people would be making the same complaints. But of all the FF games to "borrow" from, XI is just about the worst possible choice, unless you are intentionally trying to make a game that will immediately be perceived as a sequel.

In an MMORPG, the appearances of the avatars is arguably the single most distinctive aspect of the game. Yet for this ostensibly all-new game, Squenix has chosen the appearance of the avatars from the only other online FF. That, more than any other factor, will immediately cause people to infer that XIV is more of the same. Squenix is handicapping itself out of the gate.

If Capcom wanted to make an all-new fighting game that was a complete break from Street Fighter, they probably shouldn't make the main characters in the new game an asian guy with a white gi and a red headband, a white guy with fatigues and a flat-top, and a one-eyed Muay Thai kickboxer. If Nintendo wanted to make an all-new completely original adventure game, it probably shouldn't star a blonde elf with a green outfit and a magic sword.

Perception matters.

I am waiting for you to start complaining about EverQuest II and Elder scrolls IV, along with many other games that have kept their races, and sometimes added to them.

The races in FFXIV and in FFXI, have different names, back stories, and no they do no look the same. They look similar, but not the same.

Who the hell cares if they "used the same races" its all new story, backgrounds and a new world, with new battle system, new crafting system, and new damn well everything else...... What I am getting at is, STOP BITCHING.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

This is contradictory. If they had copied the races from any of the Ivalice games, what's stopping people from perceiving it as a sequel to the Ivalice storyline(s)?

Because the Ivalice games were never online.

It is simply the fact that they chose to copy the only other online FF that makes the action so conspicuous. Copying something as specific as races in a FF game is already pretty freaking lazy as is (it's usually been a near-complete reset), but copying the races of FFXI in particular is just being blatant about it.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------

I am waiting for you to start complaining about EverQuest II and Elder scrolls IV, along with many other games that have kept their races, and sometimes added to them.

Those series do not pride themselves on resetting the world with each installment. EQ2 specifically takes place in the same world as EQ1.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Because the Ivalice games were never online.

It is simply the fact that they chose to copy the only other online FF that makes the action so conspicuous. Copying something as specific as races in a FF game is already pretty freaking lazy as is (it's usually been a near-complete reset), but copying the races of FFXI in particular is just being blatant about it.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------


Those series do not pride themselves on resetting the world with each installment. EQ2 specifically takes place in the same world as EQ1.

your acting like they are trying to hide the fact that they reused the races, when they pretty much said right off the bat "we decided to make them look similar so people coming from FFXI could recreate their beloved characters and enjoy FFXIV" Never once did they hide thtat fact, and their reasoning is perfectly valid to me, I love the fact that I will still be able to be a Kitty, and I will beable to customize her to look more of the way I want her to now, that's just a plus.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

your acting like they are trying to hide the fact that they reused the races, when they pretty much said right off the bat "we decided to make them look similar so people coming from FFXI could recreate their beloved characters and enjoy FFXIV" Never once did they hide thtat fact, and their reasoning is perfectly valid to me, I love the fact that I will still be able to be a Kitty, and I will beable to customize her to look more of the way I want her to now, that's just a plus.

]

QFTW

SE has said they want Eorzea to seem familiar to players of FFXI so no one is trying to hide it. The races look and have some similairity to theor FFXI counterparts but aren't exactly the same thing.

I'd be on the bandwagon with you all if SE just took a race background and pasted in the new race name and world but they didn't. They've used simliar models and ideas but given them different backgrounds also.

Some of you don't like SE decision to make it look familiar obviously which is your right. Evidently from the quote above and my feeling SE is right some people will like having simliar races that they can customize more completely.

What I think is rediculous though is that on the basis of the simliar races and models you are assuming the entire game is a rehash of FFXI which is a huge jump. Instead of calling people fan-boys that aren't so outraged by this as you are let us that chose to wait to play the game to judge it.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

To clarify:

I'm not saying that the actual gameplay is a rehash of FFXI. From what they've said so far, it seems to be quite different.

What I am saying is that to people who don't investigate thoroughly, the game looks like an upgraded FFXI. If that's your goal (migrate existing FFXI players to a new game), then fine. But by making the races look like FFXI, you are automatically digging yourself a hole with everyone that never liked FFXI or left FFXI for another game. They'll look at the screenshots, say, "oh, more of the same" (particularly since Final Fantasy games normally reset each installment) and walk away.

If your goal is to "convert" the already-faithful, there's no problem with copying the races. If your goal is to entice new people to join, it's basically the worst choice you can make.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

To clarify:

I'm not saying that the actual gameplay is a rehash of FFXI. From what they've said so far, it seems to be quite different.

What I am saying is that to people who don't investigate thoroughly, the game looks like an upgraded FFXI. If that's your goal (migrate existing FFXI players to a new game), then fine. But by making the races look like FFXI, you are automatically digging yourself a hole with everyone that never liked FFXI or left FFXI for another game. They'll look at the screenshots, say, "oh, more of the same" (particularly since Final Fantasy games normally reset each installment) and walk away.

If your goal is to "convert" the already-faithful, there's no problem with copying the races. If your goal is to entice new people to join, it's basically the worst choice you can make.

Their "goal" is to do both, get people from FFXI and new people. Besides people that would look at screen shots and say "oh its the same" and not even look at the game further, would be the ones to only play it for a month anyway.

There are things that are similar to FFXI to get some of the FFXI crowd, and then there are many new things to get new people in it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

I guess I'm just not understanding this bizarre leap in logic that reusing the same races means they're not trying. Most people that are excited about FFXIV are from two camps (1) they played FFXI or (2) they're excited because it has more of a high fantasy setting and a focus on job system like the classics.

They're not worried about races.

There's different backstories for the races this time and there's an emphasis on them being differing. Miqo'te come from the north, live in the snow, the mithran establishments of FFXI are much more tropical. The Roegadyn seem to have a faction that has a keen interest in magic, not something the Galka would focus so much on. One faction resides in the mountains, the others are more about navigating the sea and fishing. Galka come from the desert.

It hasn't been said where the Lalafell fall in prowess other than they're closer to nature. Not too far off from Tarus, but I'm sure some difference will come up later.

Its the story and lore that makes all the difference in defining a race, not image. Specialization is something, too, but Final Fantasy has never been much for letting one race have too much more than another in terms of stats, FFXIV seems to be no exception.

[Armando]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Its the story and lore that makes all the difference in defining a race, not image.

That's like saying a game's box art (or the rest of the game's publicity) doesn't matter.

Dan's point has nothing to do with the people that are already looking forward to the game. Appearances are what gives the first impression to the people that weren't going to jump on the FFXIV fandom immediately. Some of these people will look at XIV and think "It looks like XI in HD; if XI didn't compel me enough to play it, why would I care about this one?"

Me, I think Dan has a point but I don't think a big enough issue to cause a fuss over. I think it's lame; they can and could've made brand-new races, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just want a good battle system and a gameplay structure that lets me have fun and achieve something meaningful even if I don't have more than one and a half hours to play that day.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

What I am getting at is, STOP BITCHING.

If you don't like what people post, there is an ignore feature. Please use it. People have the right to debate on a forum. You can post how awesome the game is and others can post their doubts.

your acting like they are trying to hide the fact that they reused the races, when they pretty much said right off the bat "we decided to make them look similar so people coming from FFXI could recreate their beloved characters and enjoy FFXIV" Never once did they hide thtat fact, and their reasoning is perfectly valid to me, I love the fact that I will still be able to be a Kitty, and I will beable to customize her to look more of the way I want her to now, that's just a plus.

You know thats great that you are happy you can be a Mithra again. I don't sit there and belittle you because you enjoy that aspect, so how about cutting the people that have their doubts some slack? Personally I'd like to have a new unique experience and not play another retouched avatar. Imo, they made the characters so similar and rehashed some of the art of FFXI for a very good reason, to snag people like you. It's not going to entice people who've had "issues" with FFXI and quit because its going to give the impression that the game is a revamped version of it. And it might even confuse the people that are familiar with FFXI but never played it, they may just look at it and think "Oh must be an re-do or something but probably the same shit in a prettier package."

I think it's lame; they can and could've made brand-new races, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just want a good battle system and a gameplay structure that lets me have fun and achieve something meaningful even if I don't have more than one and a half hours to play that day.

I think its lame too but it probably won't keep me from trying it. It's just a disappointment. I'm just seeing too many things that look like an FFXI rehash and that disturbs me. We all know the issues they had with FFXI and how long it took them to get on the bandwagon and do something about them.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

oh please the "there is an ignore list" and "you dont have to read it" arguments are all BS, you have to read it before you can form an opinion and respond to something.

I can tell who ever I want to stop bitching, just like they can voice their opinions, besides there are many more things that could be bitched about then the races that looks similar (yes dammit similar..... SIMILAR) yet are completely different.

This was brought up when the very first bit of info about FXIV was released, if you keep comparing FFXIV to FFXI then all its going to do is disappoint you or make you not even want to try it. The people bitching about the stupidest things, are the first ones that will be playing the game, and then continue to bitch as they play the game for years to come. Spider-Dan has every right to voice his opinion, just as I have the right to tell him how wrong his opinion is.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

And I can also give you infractions for Destructive Criticism if you continue. Just because someone has a different opinion then yours doesn't mean you can tell them to shut up because you don't agree.

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

And I can also give you infractions for Destructive Criticism if you continue. Just because someone has a different opinion then yours doesn't mean you can tell them to shut up because you don't agree.

I am not saying "OMGZ your wrong, I'm right shut up" I am saying, "your bitching about stupid things is annoying stop"

big difference in telling someone to stop bitching (because that is annoying) and telling someone to shutup