FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

No there isn't because they stating their opinion which they have the right to. You just don't like their opinion and want them to shut up. If you want to discuss this further you can PM me, otherwise get back on topic.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Even in Final Fantasy spin-offs, races are revisited. All the Crystal Chronicles games do it. The Veira, Nou Mou and Hume races didn't first appear in FFXII, nor was that game the last we saw of them.

You are forgetting that all the Crystal Chronicles games and all the games that are part of the Ivalice Alliance were all made with the idea that they all take place in the same world. It makes sense for these games to re-use the same races, all the games are part of the same timeline in the same world (and I am pretty sure FFTA2 or Revenant Wings featured several new races).

FFXI and FFXIV are purported to be two different games set in two different worlds. FFXI takes place in the world of Vana'diel, FFXIV in Eorzea. There is no excuse for just copying the same races they have already designed. They claim it's so current FFXI players will have a feeling of familiarity when playing FFXIV, but what fucking failure marketing strategy is that? Market to the people that are already paying customers?

It wouldn't be such an issue if they actually came up with at least a few new playable races. Male and female counterparts for Mithra and Galka, respectively, would have been a good start. Instead all we get is herp derp copy and paste and slap some higher res textures on 'em.

It isn't game breaking and if I get into the beta and find the gameplay to be original and enjoyable I will likely continue playing it when it goes retail, but it is disappointing to see that they just couldn't be bothered to do more than take the same shit and high def it up.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

To clarify:

I'm not saying that the actual gameplay is a rehash of FFXI. From what they've said so far, it seems to be quite different.

What I am saying is that to people who don't investigate thoroughly, the game looks like an upgraded FFXI. If that's your goal (migrate existing FFXI players to a new game), then fine. But by making the races look like FFXI, you are automatically digging yourself a hole with everyone that never liked FFXI or left FFXI for another game. They'll look at the screenshots, say, "oh, more of the same" (particularly since Final Fantasy games normally reset each installment) and walk away.

If your goal is to "convert" the already-faithful, there's no problem with copying the races. If your goal is to entice new people to join, it's basically the worst choice you can make.

I don't agree this will stop a huge number from playing the game.

G4 will probably still discredit the game because its not WOW. People who would never touch a game with FF on it probably won't try it. Those people wouldn't probably care looking at it anyway and the race similarities won't make a bit of difference to them.

I think there'll be enough unbasised reviews to tempt many to try the game who've not played FF since the armory system is so radically different from the WOW clones mostly out there. With the advertizing campaign putting out there about the new armory system and how different it is from FFXI I'm sure a person will run across something with more than artwork comparisons that might tempt them to play.

Right now SE is primarily marketing to FF players and gamers slightly in NA which make sense because I think only FF fans will be patiently watching for all the little site updates. When the release date gets closer we'll probably see more generalized ads to attract a more diverse group when most of the promotional info is already out there and easy to access.

SE is targeting the markets they are reaching for and I'm sure their ads will reflect the audience in that nook. If you've ever done advertising you'd know usually they don't use the same ad in every area of a country or with every demographic.

[Icemage]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Are there seriously people out there who bought the party line about "Oh, we wanted it to be familiar so everyone can recreate their favorite FFXI character"?

Come on, folks, you can defend other issues, but if they were really trying, why AREN'T the male Mi'Qute playable? And if the Roegadyn aren't actually Galka, why do they have the same odd asexual nature? These distinctions were dubious to begin with (yadda yadda backstory, yadda yadda, I don't care - the reasons were a lame cover for lazy game design back when FFXI first launched, and they're just as stupid in FFXIV). More to the point, why are there no "new" races?

I like some of the features being hinted at for FFXIV, but the racial choices are phoned in, unless Square-Enix is hiding some new races up their sleeves.


Icemage

[tazirai]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Been awhile Since i've posted but I can't wait to see you guys on 14.. I hope it brings back the majesty of FFXI, Not the 1337 crowd.. they'll come later. Those first 3 of 7 years will always be my favorites.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Guys,what was the first question out of many peoples mouths (including some of your own) about FFXIV?

"Will I be able to transfer my character?"

SE anticipated the users' desire for some degree of familiarity. To ignore it would be a MISTAKE - bigger than not making new races.

As for adding new races - why? They didn't do it for FFXI because stat differences don't matter. Also because they were also kind of story-bound not to expand the races. There is so much room you can retcon some things, but retconning anything "just because" can be damaging.

Remember when SE said that the Near East didn't contribute to the Crystal War effort?

Remember when SE said that ToA relic would be acquired by alternative means?

Remember when SE changed their minds and used WotG's time-travel as an excuse for putting it in existing Dynamis zones? Sure, it made things "easier" for the hardcore, batshit insane Dynamis crowd, but it murdered any glimmer of hope that relic could eventually be obtained through a better system. Users bitched and SE took the easy way out, slapping ToA relic into the existing shitty design of Dynamis.

And then, here are two jobs that did exist in the Crystal War, they got relic last.

This seriously damaged the lore behind Dynamis. This is not like JJ Abrham's doing a new Star Trek timeline, this is a sloppy, comic book-styled retcon punch. It "makes sense" on a convenience level, but is disturbing on a story/roleplay/game design level. Dynamis isn't even good gameplay design to start with and I don't think anyone would argue that, so how is adding more suffering a good thing?

Sometimes its just better to anticipate the needs of your users rather than actually listen to them. Sometimes its better to try new approaches than pander to the status quo of the users.

FFXIV's design so far seems to veer to anticipating those needs, as well as trying many new things. SE could very well have new races up their sleeve or, unlike classes, they might be saving new races for expansions - something that is certainly not unheard of in the MMO world. The fact is, right now - we just don't know and its foolish to jump to conclusions about design and marketing at this point.

Either way, the old saying "Don't judge a book by its cover" springs to mind.

[Balfree]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

quare-Enix is hiding some new races up their sleeves

Something tells me they are... I have that feeling. At the same time I wonder how that would play out... if they add male-miqo you bet your ass you will see a solid mass of players being one. Same for moogle. Unless they add both...

*wishes*

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Something tells me they are... I have that feeling. At the same time I wonder how that would play out... if they add male-miqo you bet your ass you will see a solid mass of players being one. Same for moogle. Unless they add both...

*wishes*

I agree. I don't think SE started on this game 5 years ago to say "Hey, let's not add new races for more diversity." Maybe they'll add a completely new race(s) again. We can only wait and see. I doubt if they did, that they'll even be in the beta just to keep it under rwraps.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Are there seriously people out there who bought the party line about "Oh, we wanted it to be familiar so everyone can recreate their favorite FFXI character"?

Come on, folks, you can defend other issues, but if they were really trying, why AREN'T the male Mi'Qute playable? And if the Roegadyn aren't actually Galka, why do they have the same odd asexual nature? These distinctions were dubious to begin with (yadda yadda backstory, yadda yadda, I don't care - the reasons were a lame cover for lazy game design back when FFXI first launched, and they're just as stupid in FFXIV). More to the point, why are there no "new" races?

I like some of the features being hinted at for FFXIV, but the racial choices are phoned in, unless Square-Enix is hiding some new races up their sleeves.

So you're mad that they probably aren't adding a male mithra and that's your whole argument that they didn't change the races enough and are lazy? Honestly, if they have a boob slider, and can alter the features enough you can probably make the avataar look like a male mithra. I have a dated Male Mithra mule just to look at since this one dat set I saw was so awesome but I've never complained about an all female playable race. Same with Galka. Actually this is unique from most other games so they are keeping something fairly original.

Claiming SE is lazy because they didn't make the same decisions with their game that you would of is a bit short sighted.

SE anticipated the users' desire for some degree of familiarity. To ignore it would be a MISTAKE - bigger than not making new races.

As for adding new races - why? They didn't do it for FFXI because stat differences don't matter. Also because they were also kind of story-bound not to expand the races. There is so much room you can retcon some things, but retconning anything "just because" can be damaging.

From comments I've seen some people are excited to play a more customizable simliar race to their FFXI character so SE was correct in their assumption some people would want this. SE met their need. You think those people are crazy but they play the game too so SE threw them a bone.

And yes I believe SE. Why would they have a need to lie? I mean the assumption SE decided to be lazy but went to all the trouble of a massive conspiracy to cover up they too lazy to make a new race is silly. A cover up would be more time consuming than just making a new race.

As far as new races who knows. I'll still try the game with or without a new race. I don't even know if I'll like the game play but I like what I'm hearing. I'm willing to give the game a chance.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Honestly, if they have a boob slider, and can alter the features enough you can probably make the avataar look like a male mithra.

Lol.. It's hard to tell the difference between men and women in Japanese anything anyway, right?

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

As for these races, they look like FFXI and that's where the similarity begins and ends so far as we know. Keeping the Galkan and Mithran counterparts is just as quirky as Dwarven women with beards. The Miqu'te and Roegadyn are just gender locked - either accept it or get over it. They didn't budge in FFXI on adding a second gender to these races, they likely won't this time, either.

That was a story thing in XI though. The fact that they go so far as to use the same stipulation for Lalafell (only in reverse; it's the females that are rare) but don't restrict them despite that is like a slap in the face. New world, new story, and Tanaka even went so far as to say the character models for them were already completed so come on :/

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

So you're mad that they probably aren't adding a male mithra and that's your whole argument that they didn't change the races enough and are lazy? Honestly, if they have a boob slider, and can alter the features enough you can probably make the avataar look like a male mithra.

No, just f'ing no. I don't want another Lehko Haboka.

I was thinking something more along the lines of this

[Armando]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Malacite that is a lion. It looks nothing like a Mithra/Mi'Qote.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Guys,what was the first question out of many peoples mouths (including some of your own) about FFXIV?

"Will I be able to transfer my character?"

The answer to that question is "no." And, honestly, to interpret that question as "can I make a character that looks like my existing FFXI character but retains none of the work I've put into it?" is beyond absurd.

People don't ask about transferring characters for sake of aesthetics. They ask because they want to build off of the work they've already done.

Making "new races" that look just like the old ones as a substitute for character importation is like Sony saying, "No, you can't play PS2 games on PS3... but we have a special video mode where you can make PS3 games look they are PS2 games!" It defeats the entire purpose. It's pointless and, more than that, projects a glaring sense of laziness. Because of the poor decision-making of the management and graphics teams, the rest of the design teams now have to work that much harder to avoid a label of "FFXI rehash" being slapped on this game.

As for adding new races - why? They didn't do it for FFXI because stat differences don't matter. Also because they were also kind of story-bound not to expand the races.

The fact that you are comparing design choices for expansions to what is supposed to be a brand-new game is telling in itself.

FFXIV would have been better off if SE had decided to make all the primary factions the same race (all human, elf, dwarf, or whatever) and just made the differences regional/cultural. It's worked just fine for many other FFs. Instead, they took arguably the worst possible route: they simply copied over the races from the last online FF, gender restrictions and all.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

Again I'm seeing the same theme "the fact SE didn't give us male Miq'oute and female Roegyorin (sp?) means that they are nothing more than reskinned mithra and Galka which means SE is lazy" as your proof SE made a bad decision.

Now I'd agree with you that ...

they took arguably the worst possible route: they simply copied over the races from the last online FF, gender restrictions and all.

if it was the exact same system of stats etc but its not.

I would be copied over and not thought out if all of the following restrictions were exactly the same:

1) Same background story
2) Same environment of starting city
3) Same restrictive stats and aptitudes for the same sort of jobs

The only restriction I see that is exactly the same so far as in FFXI is that there are no opposite genders in those races. ONE exactly the same thing doesn't make them a carbon copy of the race.

Basically all they did was copy the basic "look" of the characters and the "gender" that is playable.

Basically SE is doing what millions do with the typical fantasy "elf" which are basically copies of Tolkien's version of elves. This includes our "elvaan" and "elzen" here in FF. They look similiar and have similiar qualties to Tolkien's (being very proper, tall and beautiful by description of the creators) but when it comes down to the story and uses they are nothing like Tolkien's elves. Did SE plagerize Tolkien? No because they made more changes to what their version of an elf was. What's more their doing it with their own material.

I think you have a right to not "like" what qualties SE chose to "copy over" but to say this is because they were just making a carbon copy of the other is a bit of a stretch.

Plus I don't see every player on this board have the exact same reaction to this as you do. Its mixed. As the old saying goes "You can please some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time." They obviously didn't please you with this but did please BBQ in this case. If suddenly everyone posted "omg I'm not playing this game now" you'd have a point that this is a damaging decison for SE to make. I don't see ppl threatening to boycott FFXIV over this enmass so I don't think its as "bad" as you seem to think.

[Durahansolo]

Re: FFXIV BETA Test Application has begun

I play this in attack mode! Malacite loses 1000 life points...