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**TheGrandMom** · 09-13-2005, 02:14 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Question: I know this is not totally on topic but is related. (Here I go again opening my big mouth.) You say "We are an official fansite, therefore, by nature we are required to prohibit such posting of such information to maintain status and compliance." and yet you allow people to post links to the windower and other 3rd party programs that violate the TOS. Shouldn't that be policed also?

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not some young smart ass kid. I am posing a valid question that I would like (and I'm sure others) to know the answers to.

**neighbortaru** · 09-13-2005, 02:30 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

I believe the distinction is one will get the user's account banned while the other will get the site owner (in this case, our dear PiNG) sued.

**KamuroIshigami** · 09-13-2005, 04:22 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Neighbortaru puts this well. The Terms of Service is a legal "agreement" between YOU and SquareEnix, what happens to you is your business. So a third party program violates the Terms of Service, but in terms of Copyright, the programmer of the third party program owns the code and if the programmer wants to freely distribute it, they can. (Though some debate exists with the DMCA in the U.S.)

HOWEVER, that said, we extremely strongly discourage the posting or linking third party applications that clearly violates the Terms of Service and the spirit of the gameplay. As such, WE RESERVE THE SOLE RIGHT TO DETERMINE AND RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE ANY POST, LINKS, TOPICS that link to a third party program. And if SE asks us to remove the link, we will probably more than likely will do so and prohibit further postings of it. Also, the only requirement of us in the Community site requirements is this line:

Supplying cheats which are debug codes is strictly prohibited.

And the Windower is not a "cheat", as it does not provide you with any in-game advantage. It only allows you to see the rest of the Windows desktop for use of messaging software that would otherwise be hidden or just so you can see your pretty background. But "enforcement" on this is more laxed.

The Advent Children movie however, is a subject of criminal law (in addition to civil), as that is a direct Copyright "Law" violation, and it is a liability directly to the site to allow the links to exists on these boards, and as such it is more severe and the action needed by us is proportional.

**TheGrandMom** · 09-13-2005, 06:27 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Well first off, I was not debating the legal ramifications of distributing copyright material. I think that anyone with 1/2 a brain knows its illegal.

My point was that, while its admirable that you want to stay out of legal trouble, I think that more policing of your own policies should be done by your moderators. I have been affiliated with a few official MMO fansites and I know that allowing people to post things that violate the TOS is a no-no. Some companies will even take away your "official" status if you do not comply.

Also in this thread ( http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28888 ) it states "FFXIOnline.com does not support any hacks towards Final Fantasy 11. These include, but are not limited to, alt-tab hacks, windowed ffxi hacked, or any other hacks, cheating or not. Links will be removed.". So you can imagine my confusion at seeing links to windowers and other programs posted in threads on your site. It was just the wording of your statement "We are an official fansite, therefore, by nature we are required to prohibit such posting of such information to maintain status and compliance." that I found so ironic and made me ask the question.

**neighbortaru** · 09-13-2005, 07:38 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

afaik, there are no windower links on this site. With SE being particulary sensitive about this we'd like to keep it that way (if you do see one, please report it).

DAT and texture links we are more lax on, until we are told to take a harder stance on the matter.

**Caspian** · 09-13-2005, 07:45 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

I recall an older thread about the windower, where ppl were asked not to post any links. I know some were sent in pm's, but I'm not sure about ya'lls stance on those.

**Nodachi** · 09-13-2005, 09:17 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

LOLZ SPOILER CLOUD IZ IN DIZ MOVIEZ LOLSZ ^^ YOU CAN GET THE MOVIEZ HEREZ CHECK IT YO- WYW.LOLILOL.COM

-PEACE YO

Sorry, had to. :/

**TheGrandMom** · 09-13-2005, 09:46 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Well just a few days ago, as I was browsing the forums, I came across the link for the windower quite easily. I know many mods use the program but I hope its not interfering with their moderation.

Edit: Notice Siber's post....easily found

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48185

Here Kuu gives the exe name of another 3rd pt program that gives you a huge advantage in the game.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...3&page=3&pp=20

Note Falquan's post with a direct link.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47127

I could probably find more. Someone didn't check into this further before posting though hmmm?? LOL

**fastcart** · 09-13-2005, 10:11 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Well, please remember that it's not possible for moderators to catch everything. Like sometimes I only read the most recent posts and not the whole thread. Or, if my PC locks up then my cookies get out of whack and I miss some posts. Direct links, www site names, and registry codes are a no no. Stuff like modelviewer we're kinda lax on too because it doesn't modify any of the game files. But, we're pretty lax about saying names of programs like "windower.exe." It's ok to talk about stuff like windower in detail as long as it cannot be publicly seen (i.e. in a thread). That said, whenever you see something out of place, you can send us a report via the "Report Bad Post" button. As such, I've editted out the urls and codes out of the ones you just posted. Thanks.

If I'm forgetting something AKosygin, feel free to correct me.

**KamuroIshigami** · 09-13-2005, 10:20 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Originally posted by TheGrandMom

My point was that, while its admirable that you want to stay out of legal trouble, I think that more policing of your own policies should be done by your moderators. I have been affiliated with a few official MMO fansites and I know that allowing people to post things that violate the TOS is a no-no. Some companies will even take away your "official" status if you do not comply.

Also in this thread ( http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28888 ) it states "FFXIOnline.com does not support any hacks towards Final Fantasy 11. These include, but are not limited to, alt-tab hacks, windowed ffxi hacked, or any other hacks, cheating or not. Links will be removed.". So you can imagine my confusion at seeing links to windowers and other programs posted in threads on your site. It was just the wording of your statement "We are an official fansite, therefore, by nature we are required to prohibit such posting of such information to maintain status and compliance." that I found so ironic and made me ask the question.

In regards to compliance, we are in full compliance with the Community Requirements, as there is no requirement to prohibit the posting of any ToS violating material. However, I understand your concern in regards to the statement and will re-evaluate our position in regarding this.

However, please be aware that we said we will not support, not we will prohibit unlike in this case of the movie. However, I understand your concern and this will be taken in to consideration.

Thank you for bringing our attention to this.

**Monet** · 09-14-2005, 06:15 AM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Cool...a n00b posting on a mod/senior-thread...

If you want a site n00b's opinion, I agree with what Akosygin said above :

The Terms of Service is a legal "agreement" between YOU and SquareEnix, what happens to you is your business.

Removing links to programs is about as Nazi as you can get with a website. Unless it involves legal ramifications, such as the long anticipated "Advent Children", removing a link to anything game related should be frowned upon unless specifically stated by SE.
Of course, you say, there are links to 3rd partaru programs that help you cheataru. I know. I've seen alot of them just looking for .dat mods. Never used one, though. Can't say that I would want my account shut down because I didn't feel like running back to Sandy to change jobs after (Valkurm Dunes).
Besides that, It's not violating anything legal in regards to the website's and SE's agreement. That's already been stated. Just because it's posted on the forum's

doesn't mean we support it.

Especially in regards to Windower. Yes, it's a gateway to most of the 3rd party hacks. That doesn't mean that it's used exclusively for hacks and cheating. I know quite a few people that wouldn't be able to play if they weren't able to keep an eye on their e-mail, due to work purposes.
In short, if you've read this far, I'll close. Links to programs that exploit or hack game weaknesses or substance have no place on an Official Site, as prescribed by SE. However, should various programs/edits/mods be deemed [i]unharmful or non-threatening[/] then links should remain and be dealt with as users see fit. No sense in trying to guess what SE would/wouldn't want on an official site.

**neighbortaru** · 09-14-2005, 06:50 AM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

omg! someone actually used the search function!

as fastcart said, we can't catch everything (and I personally can't do anything about stuff that happened before I became a mod).

Anyways, I hope Akosygin's response answers your question TGM.

**TheGrandMom** · 09-14-2005, 09:35 AM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Originally posted by fastcart

Well, please remember that it's not possible for moderators to catch everything.

Well considering the amount of moderators the site has, I don't see that there should be an issue with catching these things. Siber's post was over 2 months old. Falquen's was over 4 months old. Mods can use the search feature just as easily as I can. I've been a mod and I know that things can and will slip by you on occasion but another mod usually catches it. I also do periodic "sweeps" using the search feature and sometimes catch things that have slipped through the cracks.

Originally posted by neighbortaru

omg! someone actually used the search function!

as fastcart said, we can't catch everything (and I personally can't do anything about stuff that happened before I became a mod).

Anyways, I hope Akosygin's response answers your question TGM.

LOL Yes sometimes people do use Search!

I'm glad that no offense has been taken because of my questions. I just feel that there should be consistancy in the moderation of a site. But then again its just the mother leaking out of me at times. LOL

**tazirai** · 09-14-2005, 12:33 PM

Re: FFVII Advent Children...

Originally posted by TheGrandMom

Well considering the amount of moderators the site has, I don't see that there should be an issue with catching these things. Siber's post was over 2 months old. Falquen's was over 4 months old. Mods can use the search feature just as easily as I can. I've been a mod and I know that things can and will slip by you on occasion but another mod usually catches it. I also do periodic "sweeps" using the search feature and sometimes catch things that have slipped through the cracks.

LOL Yes sometimes people do use Search!

I'm glad that no offense has been taken because of my questions. I just feel that there should be consistancy in the moderation of a site. But then again its just the mother leaking out of me at times. LOL

No offense to what you said,just hope things are more clear now.
As to not catcthing everythin,there are tons of cops everywhere, but they can't possibly stop every single crime that happens. Somethings sadly get thru the radar.

But as was said we try our Best to catch things that violate any Copyright infringement on Square.(Fan videos, non-related since most companies have no way to stop this. Its like that disclaimer before a football game.)

Imsure you know about .DAT'ing so no need to go into that.

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