[dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

[cidbahamut]

Re: [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

You my friend have clearly not been witness to the TP machine that is Dragoon. Soul Jump and Spirit Jump did amazing things for DRG and this recast reduction makes them even more awesome. Dragoon's flaws can basically be boiled down to a lack of Attack and relying on AoEs not demolishing their wyvern.

[Icemage]

Re: [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

You my friend have clearly not been witness to the TP machine that is Dragoon. Soul Jump and Spirit Jump did amazing things for DRG and this recast reduction makes them even more awesome. Dragoon's flaws can basically be boiled down to a lack of Attack and relying on AoEs not demolishing their wyvern.

Dragoon has many flaws. TP gain has never been one of them (and this update makes this even less true). Attack power isn't really a huge issue either - it's the fact that polearm WS are pretty meh until you get to the epic-tier exclusive weaponry. Having all that TP is great, but you need to do something productive with it, and that's something Dragoons don't do well. A lack of defensive skills (aside from healing breath, which is basically meaningless at endgame when not solo) and no practical way to protect their wyvern aside from constantly feeding them HP is, as you mentioned, a big part of the problem, since the wyvern contributes a significant amount of extra damage. On paper, dragoons "should" do the most damage over time against enemies, but that has never panned out at endgame because so many enemies have crippling AoE.

I really think Square-Enix needs to abandon this "oh but the dragoon can pull enmity off of another party member" shtick. It's too much of a hassle to use in a crisis, and the number of cases where a dragoon might reasonably use that to protect (say) a healer while simultaneously keeping his own enmity low yet still contributing enough damage to matter is... pretty small.

P.S. I haven't seen Dragoons be TP-machines? Someone clearly doesn't remember the time when Pentathrust returned full TP for every hit.


Icemage

[cidbahamut]

Re: [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

Actually lack of attack buffs is pretty big. Drakesbane is pretty beast, but falls down on the job once you take it against nastier stuff that highlights the attack discrepancy between DRG and other jobs. For real, no Berserk is a pretty huge deal.

It's clear you've not been keeping up with Dragoon, they got Steady Wing for wyvern stoneskin and not too long ago there was a patch that gave wyverns some straight up DT (-40% DT I think it was). Wyvern's damage isn't quite negligible, but the big thing for it now is that it gives TP bonuses to the new jumps, so once the wyvern is down your TP gain goes down the tubes.

I agree that the enmity shenanigans need to end. Super Jump is really the only thing I ever bother to use. Hate caps, and Dragoon is a DD, we don't give a rat's ass about who's got hate unless it's us. If we have hate, Super Jump and make that thing eat someone else.

Touche sir, Pentathrust shenanigans were before my time.

[Malacite]

Re: [dev1070] Job Adjustments: Dragoon

Dragoon has many flaws. TP gain has never been one of them (and this update makes this even less true). Attack power isn't really a huge issue either - it's the fact that polearm WS are pretty meh until you get to the epic-tier exclusive weaponry. Having all that TP is great, but you need to do something productive with it, and that's something Dragoons don't do well. A lack of defensive skills (aside from healing breath, which is basically meaningless at endgame when not solo) and no practical way to protect their wyvern aside from constantly feeding them HP is, as you mentioned, a big part of the problem, since the wyvern contributes a significant amount of extra damage. On paper, dragoons "should" do the most damage over time against enemies, but that has never panned out at endgame because so many enemies have crippling AoE.

I really think Square-Enix needs to abandon this "oh but the dragoon can pull enmity off of another party member" shtick. It's too much of a hassle to use in a crisis, and the number of cases where a dragoon might reasonably use that to protect (say) a healer while simultaneously keeping his own enmity low yet still contributing enough damage to matter is... pretty small.

P.S. I haven't seen Dragoons be TP-machines? Someone clearly doesn't remember the time when Pentathrust returned full TP for every hit.


Icemage

You mean Tanaka needs to take a que from Yoshi P.

Seriously, compare XI's DRG to XIV's - The job is a freaking beast. Of course, since there's no pet for that version the buff is justified, however XI's DRG still suffers from critical weaknesses. As you said, largely lackluster WS at the higher levels (especially compared to some of the Empyrean WS or buffed Relic WS from the 99 Relics) but also the dependency on the Wyvern when the Wyvern isn't all that great to begin with.

Healing Breath IV is pretty boss, since as is DRG can heal for assloads (I've heard 800+ HP and this is without deep breathing supposedly from just HB III) but the offensive breaths need a major power boost. Maybe if the Wyvern's Elemental breaths did at least half of the DRG's WS damage, then it would be Tier 1 and be taken seriously (and would warrant how fragile the damn thing is).