Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Not sure how the newer mobs are, but let's say (hypothetically) that RDM didn't have Refresh. Ever. All the mobs I was fighting at endgame were pretty resistant to our enfeebles, so RDM would be pretty much useless. You'd land your Para and your Slow sometimes, but as I've said before, you can just bring a BLM and have them ES it to stick it and save the party spot for someone who can deal damage. All this assuming Refresh doesn't exist.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the new Affinity: Magic Acc +4 staves should fix that problem. +25% Magic Acc is pretty freaking powerful.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

I don't know. I just know that it really pissed me off that as a person with an A+ Enfeebling skill (+ merits) I still needed to used a subbed job ability to land debuffs on certain mobs, and that BLMs could essentially do the same.

[MrMageo]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

That only solves half the problem <kind of> MACC was never really the issue, it is the fact that mobs now a days are outright immune. Even barring that enfeebles seldom if ever turn the tide of the battle. I think what aks is eluding to is if RDM did not have its support spells (such as haste and refresh) it would be seen as nigh useless in endgame events.

SE has done a lot to curb RDM soloing. I mean Ive got an A+ Skill, with something like +45 in skill gear +MND or INT +MACC in other slots. With an HQ staff, and I can not land my WHITE MAGIC Slow or Para, but a NIN can land theirs fine, a BRD can land theirs. Hell Ice spikes para things that are 99% immune to para.

It is not a question of MACC or Skill anymore (on the mobs that matter, read as non sky/non land kings) it is a question of why SE has made it so the White and Black enfeebles are nearly impossible to stick, or impossible to stick, while Elegy, Hojo, Jubaku get through fine.

But to the main point of Aks, post, if RDM didn't have Refresh we would be a lot less sought after.

--------

On the topic of enfeebles, I hope that Addle = amnessia it will be awesome sauce, and finally once and for all put to rest the GD TP feeding crapshoot arguments.

<me> I am going to melee
<them> you just feed it TP
<me> *casts Addle*8
<mob> is has amnessia
<me> now it doesn't fucking matter!

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

I think what aks is eluding to is if RDM did not have its support spells (such as haste and refresh) it would be seen as nigh useless in endgame events.

Pretty much this.

---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

Addle as Amnesia would be quite sweet, but of course mobs like Khimmy would be immune, otherwise you'd just have an Addle rotation when it's below 35% just like you originally would have had a Stun rotation for Fulmination.

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

It is rather annoying that a job that is supposed to be so good at enfeebling is not that good at it when it really fucking matters. I loved enfeebling from 1-75 in parties but after that it became beyond pointless. I don't know why SE would have even given us that A+ skill if it was going to be so useless at endgame.

[MrMageo]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

well It was funny in Abyssea the other day (was on BRD) the damn RDM's were not using para/slow/dispel so I lost it. I think I made one cry. But the excuse was i forgot, an you know what aftr 4 years of not being able to cast on mobs (fucking pink birds) I don't blame them, if I wasn't such an asshole and focused on everything I do, id probably have forgot too.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

fucking pink birds

Lol, I agree. And people wonder why RDMs are, for the most part, so fucking shitty. FUCKING PINK BIRDS is why!!

[MrMageo]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

and wonder why they are so bitter about haste/curing and refresh
ive done my share of supporting DD, PLDs for 4 damn years casting 4 damn spells, enough is enough =D

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Not saying that I wouldn't be willing to adapt at all - I just refuse to be shoved in to either extreme.

That would be fine, if you'd just stop whining about what other RDMs get to do. It's not like anyone is even asking you for a Refresh when you're soloing. Why do you care if the rest of us have Refresh II or not?

Heck, a Lv.82 spell probably won't even be relevant to you for another two years or so.

RDM/DNC melee stuff

Run KParser, see % of the time the DDs you're supposed to be casting Haste on have it up. It's in the "Buffs by Time" tab. If you can handle the curing plus all the steps, Dia, other enfeebs, etc.. while keeping up Haste, then I'll pay attention.

In the mean while, chew on this: Melee DD x3, DNC, BRD/WHM (or /NIN if need puller), COR/WHM.

Haste + March x2 + Haste Samba, Dia II upgraded with Light Shot just as potent as Dia III, all the Step enfeebs one can want, and plenty of MP recovery on top of plenty of TP curing.

Why would I want a RDM/DNC if there are people and options for a better build?

* * *

Putting a RDM in AoE range just doesn't sound enticing for harder NMs, and for easy stuff a RDM isn't needed to begin with.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Putting a RDM in AoE range just doesn't sound enticing for harder NMs,

Ha! If AoEs are a problem, your average Ninja is more frail than a properly prepared Red Mage. Composure Stoneskin + Phalanx would like to say "hi."

Or do you back-line all your Ninja, too, and expect them to consistently Ninjutsu and Shuriken the mob to death?

and for easy stuff a RDM isn't needed to begin with.

Well, yes, but by this logic neither is a Samurai. Or any particular job, for that matter (possibly barring Paladin, since S-E seems to hate anybody who tries to tank with anything but that or Dancer, lolFanDance).

[Ketaru]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Oh noes! I don't get to party with the NA xenophile that isn't even on my server! What ever shall I do?

Look, as you've pointed out, either way, I'm boned. Either I'm stuck in a party doing little but keep up rotations and the occasional cure, or I'm not partying at all. In that sense, if Red Mage would never have gotten Refresh II, I would have "lost" nothing.

Not saying that I wouldn't be willing to adapt at all - I just refuse to be shoved in to either extreme.

RDM is getting Refresh II and you still haven't lost nothing. If you're tired of people not allowing you to play the way you want to play, then I would suggest finding like-minded players who share your ideals of how to play the game.

Honestly, the sooner people admit it's just an indulgence they want to entertain, the sooner they will get back to enjoying the game. Years ago, I camped Ose and my grouped claimed it over a DRG's that was nearby. She cried bitter tears that I was only getting it for fun and she actually needed it. And you know? I honestly didn't give a shit.

Then don't play it. Jobs change. Their expectations change.

I care what my group thinks, so I play RDM as I am expected to when they want goodies from mobs. People that aren't part of my group can shove their expectations up their ass...like the merit party I forced out of the Greater Colibri camp when I wanted to skill up sword. "It's easy when you don't give a crap about it."

The real problem is, for all the I-care-not big talk being done, the truth is YellowMage cares way too much about the expectations of an online stranger who "isn't even on his server".

[Elwynn]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

On Sylph it's only now down to 90k. Until yesterday it was going for more than the NPC price. Stone V has actually increased to 150k, when the NPC is 123K, in Windurst (S), which is the easiest city to reach in WotG, whether you're with another nation, or a level 1 mule.

...and it's already happening with Aspir II. The update is still probably a week and a half away and people are already paying 100k for Aspir II on the AH. When an NPC in freaking Whitegate sells it for 79k.

Stupid people are stupid.

[Firewind]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Look, as you've pointed out, either way, I'm boned. Either I'm stuck in a party doing little but keep up rotations and the occasional cure, or I'm not partying at all. In that sense, if Red Mage would never have gotten Refresh II, I would have "lost" nothing.

Not saying that I wouldn't be willing to adapt at all - I just refuse to be shoved in to either extreme.

Look at what has happened to the White Mage in Endgame Situations thanks to the Red Mage and Scholar. A White Mage's role in Dynsmis is split into two roles involving a single spell:

DD Party: Haste bot
Tank Party: Raise 3 bot

All of the real healing is left to the Red Mages and Scholars

In Nyzul Isle and Salvage I get to cast other spells though. I get to cast the odd Raise II and -na spell. If I get into a run that is.

In Merit parties I'm usually asked to switch to Corsair even Paladin rather than WHM. The only time I'm requested on WHM is if my Linkshell or a friend is tossing me a sympathy invite really.

[MrMageo]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Run KParser, see % of the time the DDs you're supposed to be casting Haste on have it up. It's in the "Buffs by Time" tab. If you can handle the curing plus all the steps, Dia, other enfeebs, etc.. while keeping up Haste, then I'll pay attention.

You is not very smart are you......(will get back to this in a moment)

In the mean while, chew on this: Melee DD x3, DNC, BRD/WHM (or /NIN if need puller), COR/WHM.

Haste + March x2 + Haste Samba, Dia II upgraded with Light Shot just as potent as Dia III, all the Step enfeebs one can want, and plenty of MP recovery on top of plenty of TP curing.

Why would I want a RDM/DNC if there are people and options for a better build?

Because DDx2 DNC, RDM/WAR (or BLU), COR/DD, BRD/NIN is better.

DNC + RDM can provide the DD of a 3rd DD while providing the healing of a dedicated healer.
DIA 3 + 5% from light shot
haste + haste samba + march x 2

So now is my party not only swing as fast and hitting harder, we also have a larger healing structure in case of crazy stuff. My COR is not using a gimp ass sj because Im trying to make its something its not (a healer/magic buffer spending more time buffing/healing than shooting)




* * *

Putting a RDM in AoE range just doesn't sound enticing for harder NMs, and for easy stuff a RDM isn't needed to begin with.

But you are cool with SAM/DRG/WAR/THF/ etc etc (pretty well anything other than BLU/DNC drk to an extent) there. All of which have no def against AoE abilities (slow + phalanx) all of which have no way to fix the damage they take. But you are worried if a job with the second highest MDB in the game, with the strongest set of personal defensive buff in he game, as well as multiple ways to fix the damage (cures/regens) there. Or is AoE's with status effects like silence, or para. Well I got healing waltz, thats a free status heal.Or i can bring some meds.

Back to your first comment RQ however. You are slow aren't you. How long have I personally talked about /DNC (9well before the level cap upate that made it more useful). If you have bothered to read any of my posts on the subject. You will notice that I hve said many times RDM can not main heal and melee a party alone, it can but its damage an side benefits, get lost making it not worth it. Had you read my above post you would see I said refresh the SCH or WHM and help with hastes and cures.....Help

help (hlp)
v. helped, help·ing, helps
v.tr.
1. To give assistance to; aid: I helped her find the book. He helped me into my coat.
2. To contribute to the furtherance of; promote.
3. To give relief to: help the needy.
4. To ease; relieve: medication to help your cold.
5. To change for the better; improve: A fresh coat of paint will help a scarred old table.
6. To refrain from; avoid or resist. Used with can or cannot: couldn't help laughing.
7. To wait on, as in a store or restaurant.
v.intr.
To be of service; give assistance.
n.
1.
a. The act or an instance of helping.
b. Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.
3. One that helps: You've been a great help. A food processor is a help to the serious cook.
4. A person employed to help, especially a farm worker or domestic servant.
Such employees considered as a group. Often used with the.
Idiom:
help (oneself) to
1. To serve or provide oneself with: Help yourself to the cookies.
2. Informal To take (something) without asking permission: The thief helped himself to our family silver.

just in case you are not familiar with what the word actually means. Ergo, It would not be 100% on the RDM's shoulders to do that shit, it is us helping, because at that time we are making buff ALLIANCE wide with steps,spells,and abilities.

Try harder yo, and meet someone who is actually good. LOLCOR/WHM!

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

Actually, Cor/Whm with a decent MP set can remove the need for a Rdm entirely from a party if you have a Dnc supporting. Even without a Dnc present the /Whm gives them the ability to keep up a haste cycle on their own which dramatically increases real DD's damage output. I've been an advocate of /War or /Rng for a long time now and used to sneer at Cors being a ghetto Brd with /Whm but with the advent of bird parties dying off Cor/DD isn't as amazing as it used to be and in Abyssea alliances sacrificing the survivability of shadows/stoneskin/blink makes you more a burden than a blessing.

[Balfree]

Re: Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

MrMageo, I'm just going to ask you personally to tone the aggressiveness of your posts down a little bit. It's a little uncalled for.