New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

just did Abyssea last night as DRG/BLU and not only was I doing some crazy DPS

What was the exact total DPS you managed, and what was the target? Or did you not use a parser?

If you're not using a parser, let me warn you that eyeballing is extremely inaccurate.

* * *

People tend to see what they want to see instead of the reality; I've spotted people with less than 70% accuracy and suggested they may benefit from sushi, and only to be told that "Why? My accuracy is pretty good and I do more damage with meat."

Most DDs tend to (vastly) overestimate their damage output while underestimating the amount of damage they took (by stunning margins).

[Ziero]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Show me proof of this statement then I might give more than a second to the rest of your post.

Q: Will players eventually be able to modify all of their armor and weapons via trials? If so, when can we expect those changes to be implemented into the system, and what kind of restrictions will there be?

A: While system and game balance concerns make it unrealistic to allow all existing equipment to be augmented through Trial of the Magians, we intend to expand the system in such a way that players' most precious acquisitions can stay fit for active use long after the level cap has been increased.

The plans announced at VanaFest 2010 are just the tip of the iceberg, so stay tuned!

Developer Q&A: Trial of the Magians - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

There, now will you go away?

I prefer to think of it as "correctly identifying".

You claimed that game expansions are supposed to be released when they are incomplete rather than a finished product. Explain to me how that makes any sense.

Name one expansion that was complete at launch. Go ahead, try it.

And as for upgrading expensive gear through magian trials, the big problem with this is of course that the item becomes permanently non-tradeable. And especially given the track record of the first attempts at augments, who would want to make an expensive item EX for an augment, only to find out later that they're locked out of something better? I haven't heard of a way to fully-unaugment stuff to the point where it's mule-able again, and I'm certainly not going to go grinding magian trials for a potential inventory porker. Especially something that couldn't be sold if a better base gear comes around, which is a definite concern in the next few months.

Not "expensive" gear...that stuff is 9 times out of 10 crap anyway. They meant already Rare/Ex gear. More then likely Abjurations (which actually won't be all that hard to get after the cap boost), Limbus and Salvage gear.

[ShepardG]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Name one expansion that was complete at launch. Go ahead, try it.

A crystaline Prophecy
A Moogle Ku'detat(sp)
A shanntoto acension(sp)

also Zilart

I'm pretty sure CoP was done when it was released, if it wasn't they didn't take 2 years to complete it, same with ToAU

Here's a better question:
Name one expansion that took Half as long to complete as WoTG has taken (and it's still not done ><)

[Ziero]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

...the add ons aren't full expansions. The whole point of them was to be mini-side stories that were entirely self contained, that's why they're called "Add-ons".

The final battle for RoZ wasn't added until AFTER COP WAS FINISHED.

ToAU wasn't finished until after WotG came out either, PW and the entire ZNM system came along after WotG released and it still took them a few updates to finish it. Hell, ToAU *still* is unfinished since they completely dropped the whole "Arena" concept they wanted to add. You know that little red Icon on the Whitegate map? The one on M-11 that says "The Colosseum"? Yea, that's unfinished content.

CoP took it's sweet ass time with updates as well, with a very step ladder based mission progression,(I certainly remember all the bitching post updates about how people could only go so far in the missions) and can be the only expansion that was arguably "finished" in it's own time frame.

I don't know about you, but maybe, just maybe SE decided that the best way to finish the WotG storyline would be to have the final fight scaled to players who were able to reach the max cap of 99? Perhaps bringing with it some more, new endgame content perhaps maybe? Thinking that just possibly, it would probably be best to somehow interlink the WotG finale with the Abyssea finale (as Abyssea *is* related to WotG) and thus end their LAST FULL EXPANSION EVER with a suitably epic final fight that won't be soloable like every other mission chain once the cap hits 99?

I'll admit, WotG was a very "seat of their pants" expansion, but mainly because SE honestly didn't see the game lasting over 5 years. During ToAU, people would always complain about how older issues remained unresolved and how SE needed to fix them, but SE was working full time on ToAU and couldn't dedicate resources away from it so they said "we'll get to it after ToAU is done". Then ToAU gets "finished", they release WotG and while working on expansion content, they go back and completely overhaul the entire rest of the game at the same time, and yet all people can do is bitch about the expansion taking so long?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Just can't win with some people.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

There, now will you go away?

I take it you feel you proved something there other than quoting them saying the complete opposite of what you're claiming?

A) Old super gear will be subject to upgrade through Magian Trials

While system and game balance concerns make it unrealistic to allow all existing equipment to be augmented through Trial of the Magians

Once again, try and avoid posting speculative nonsense and claiming it's fact.

[Ziero]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Because that possibly couldn't mean they had no intention of letting you upgrade a plain old Hauberk or a Scorpion Harness or a Wool robe or the THOUSANDS OF OTHER INSIGNIFICANT PIECES OF GEAR in this game, but instead that no old gear ever will ever be able to be upgraded. Nope, no gear at all.

I guess bolded, enhanced sized words are hard to read or something.

[MrMageo]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

It is still speculation. Until a list is provided anything you are claiming is speculation. Remember when SE said 3 years ago that they would make RDM's more desired on the frontlines, well people still speculate what that means and lord knows that they still haven't done much to make them desired.

This is SE their notion of the game has been proven time and time again vastly different than what the player base sees it as. Case in point, Ninja, Case in point SMN, Case in point BW+KC+Haste. They have never viewed things the same as we have, and they probably never will.

Speculation is fun, but it is not fact.

For all we know SE could allow augments to SH and Hauby to the point to make them equal status to things like Ares, or the like, simply because the game will be so far beyond sky shit people wont bother doing it. Hell Sky has been empty forever, Sea is simply a Homam farm.

Speculation is speculation.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Speculation is speculation.

Maybe someone else taking the time to explain it will help it get into his thick skull.

[Neverslip]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

For all we know SE could allow augments to SH and Hauby to the point to make them equal status to things like Ares

I wish ... I hope ... I wish ... I hope ... I wish ... I hope ... I wish ... I hope ... I wish ...

[Malacite]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

None of the expansions were complete when they came out, however most of them were fully implemented by the time the next one came out, or shortly after (1.5~2 years) not the 3+ years that Wings has taken.

Hell, SE even publicly apologized a while back for the delays. That was back in late 2008/early 2009 IIRC. So we know for a fact they have been dragging their feet with this one.

[Ziero]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

It is still speculation. Until a list is provided anything you are claiming is speculation. Remember when SE said 3 years ago that they would make RDM's more desired on the frontlines, well people still speculate what that means and lord knows that they still haven't done much to make them desired.

Enspell 2s, which are melee attacks that lower elemental resistances, Weaponskills that open level 3 SC while lowering magic evasion and Composure, which increases Accuracy and the durations of self buffs were SE's way of moving Rdm to the "front line". It allowed them to enfeeble through *melee attacks*. while sorta (but not really) lessening their buff cycles. How the hell was that not obviously them trying to deliver on what they said? Just because they weren't all that good at accomplishing what they said didn't mean they didn't try to deliver on what they said.

For all we know SE could allow augments to SH and Hauby to the point to make them equal status to things like Ares, or the like, simply because the game will be so far beyond sky shit people wont bother doing it. Hell Sky has been empty forever, Sea is simply a Homam farm.

That would actually counter intuitive to the entire point of upgrading Armor. The complaint is that increasing the level cap will "outdate" a lot of the hard to get, super uber gear....which Hauby and Scorpy are far from. Though to be fair, most Sky Gear has always been kind of lame too, though the best pieces when Sky first came out are more or less still the best pieces, even at level 80. I still don't see anything coming close to matching Kitty Pants or Crimson Legs.

Maybe someone else taking the time to explain it will help it get into his thick skull.

VanaFest 2010 - Celebrating 8 Years of FINAL FANTASY XI -

Quest Structure
The quests will be divided into a number of categories, and progression in each will allow players to earn different rewards. The following quest branches and more are being considered:

- Weapon enhancement.
- Armor enhancement.

Trial of the Magians will be introduced to the game in multiple stages, with the initial set of weapon enhancement quests slated for addition in the March version update.

VanaFest2010 - The Analysis :: ZAM

As characters progress, there is also the fear that the equipment they acquired through such time and effort will quickly become worthless. This was considered as well, and the new Trial of the Magians system will allow weapons and armor to be upgraded with a range of new powers.

Trial of the Magians is a set of quests for Level 75 characters that allow them to improve their existing weapons, armor and skills. Players choose an area they wish to improve and must complete a corresponding quest to obtain their selected enhancement. The five categories shown at VanaFest were

- Weapons

- Armor

- "Livelihood Skills" i.e. Crafting Skills

- "Adventuring Skills" i.e. Player Stats

- "3rd set of strongest weapons" i.e. enhancing Relics and Mythics into a new set of ultimate weapons.

So far, the Weapons line of quests has been highlighted and looks to be added in the March update. Here are the official details:

So we know for a fact they have been dragging their feet with this one.

I never said it wasn't taking a long time, that's not the complaint. The complaint was that it was "unfinished", which is how every expansion worked. But unlike every other expansion, we're also seeing massive game wide changes and tweaks to content that hasn't been touched in years while at the same time seeing completely new content being added hand over fist in both some massive updates and in the multiple Add-Ons they've released. Maybe, just maybe (and this is actually speculation that all this extra, game wide, game changing content is possibly, just maybe, having something to do with the delays we're seeing in WotG. I mean, crazy idea I know, maybe they're just adding so much, they have to break up some of it to actually get in everything they can when they feel it's right.

[Malacite]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

I'm actually inclined to agree, that SE just has so much shit going on at once that it's messing things up. And even though XIV has it's own teams and resources, Tanaka is still active on both projects far as I know so who knows what impact (if any) that has.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

A crystaline Prophecy
A Moogle Ku'detat(sp)
A shanntoto acension(sp)

Those were add-on with very limited scope (and low prices, too).

also Zilart

That's a lie; it was not completed upon release.

I wasn't playing FFXI back then, but the October 10, 2003 version update note made it clear SE was adding Zilart missions after the expansion's release:

New rank 9 and Zilart missions will be introduced.

I'm pretty sure CoP was done when it was released

Promathia was released in 2004. Version update notes from July 19, 2005:

A new chapter has been added to “Chains of Promathia.”

So, again, no, the expansion was NOT completed upon release.

, if it wasn't they didn't take 2 years to complete it, same with ToAU

It's arguable for Promathia; while the main storyline was done, Dynamis-Tavnazia wasn't completed until 2006, and that's a zone which requires Promathia to access, not to mention story-wise was subordinate to the Promathia's missions.

Here's a better question:
Name one expansion that took Half as long to complete as WoTG has taken (and it's still not done ><)

I don't think there's any question that that SE is taking too long with the Altana expansion, but I like my question even more: Did you get your money's worth?

* * *

If it's an offline game, an 'expansion' is expected to be a complete package (that wouldn't run without the actual game), of course. As an online game which is completely dependent on the server side, though, I tend to think of Zilart/Promathia/Aht Urhgan/Altana not so much as expansion packs (even though that's the label), but as access keys.

Paying the $30 (except Zilart) was for gaining the zone/story/gear access. Especially the missions and the storyline.

Is the Altana's release annoyingly slow? Yeah. But, it's also the most ambitious story telling effort to date in FFXI. Do I want it faster? YES! Do I want SE to rush the rest out of the door? Heck, NO!!! lol.

If taking resources from FF14 can help finishing up Altana's missions faster, I'm all for it, but we all know that's not going to happen. Then, the next best thing is to grudgingly wait for the kid's meal sized Altana team to slowly finish--but with high quality.

This story deserves to end on a high note. And, I'm willing to wait for it, if I must.

[cidbahamut]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Why are we only using examples from the company that takes the wrong approach to expansions?

Or maybe I've just stuck back in that era of PC gaming where the only patches to an expansion were to fix bugs, not add content.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Why are we only using examples from the company that takes the wrong approach to expansions?

Because maybe they're the guys that are making this game?

Just a wild guess.