New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

[Neverslip]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Here's hoping Thf actually gets a useful ability at 90 cap instead of just a crappy TH3.

Anything would be more welcome than the big pile of nothing THF got at lvl 80... I was sooo disappointed when I got there and found nothing new under my abilities or traits tabs. I confirmed as much on wiki... so disappointed.

Actually, when you get into the MATHS on BG, they get right to business. Mods there are actually pretty super strict when it comes to some things, especially if it involves blatant stupidity. Though you need a tough skin to survive there, it's really a decent (i.e. best place) for new, hard fact info.

Very true ... Unfortunately, my brain refuses to follow the maths anymore. Was gonna go into math and science as a straight-A student way back when; then after I took astronomy, biology, calculus, and philosophy all at once, I decided there was gonna be more happiness (yet less $$) for me going the theatre/acting/stage combat route... I see equasions and suddenly my brain rebels and goes screaming into the night. I have honestly given it a shot several times but it's just too much anymore when it's one giant-math-problem-argument vs another giant-math-problem-argument when all I want is end results.

I really do hate BG's format tho... it takes too long for me to find anything. I may be going about it wrong tho.

you will realize that this guy is dragging the name of your favorite job through the mud.

from just below

Happens all the time for my DNC when I'm playing SAM or THF. I see them all over the place barely even getting a samba out let alone all the other incredibly useful tools SE gave them.

[Ketaru]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Auroure, teal > Very situational, agian, the more hardcore players who are gearing for that 1/2 a percent gain on their DoT or WS avg, know where to swap in what piece. the less skilled or the non endgame participating player, just jumped up alot closer to the best by full timing it. The elitests (yes I tend to be one) are seriously playing for 1-3% difference in someone wear these new armor sets. (exceptions are given, with really great gear {salvage,odin,limbus,etc} the difference is a bit more, 5-10%, and when you throw in relics into that equation you get a little bit above that)

It sounds counter intuitive, but when you play an unpopular job and love it, you will become more elitist. You will rage when you see other jobs say they won't invite one because BSTs always show up to their parties in CHR gear, because you know that's just not true. Then you'll actually come across one in a party, and he's wearing full Bison gear and you will rage even more because you have just met 5 other people who are less likely to ever invite a BST again in the future.

You'll be a PUP who posts parse after parse and screenshots of all the awesome nukes your automaton can do. Then you will see a PUP in an Abyssea group like the one I was in where the PUP had a puppet that cast nothing but tier 1 nukes; at some point, his automaton learned Thunder during the party. And you will realize that this guy is dragging the name of your favorite job through the mud. I bet you'll be on one of your other jobs and it will just make you wish you had come PUP too, just to undo the damage being done to your job's reputation.

[cidbahamut]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

When you can't debate, insult.

I prefer to think of it as "correctly identifying".

You claimed that game expansions are supposed to be released when they are incomplete rather than a finished product. Explain to me how that makes any sense.

[Romyro]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

I’m not sure if I can thank you enough for that post Ketaru…I agree with 110%. Cant tell you how many times I’ve seen Bsts fighting in Bison, full AF or full Relic. Or those that dual wielding Viking Axes at 75/80 because they have +Acc ><. Knew a guy at 75 that constantly charmed with his King Scythe or whatever (a scythe with +chr). Bst has always been a great job and plenty of people here have noticed it but not so much the general community. Now with these new jugs that are worth a damn Bst is finally getting some nice recognition. I never wanted to be the Top DDer…I just wanted people to realize Bst is a good DDer.

As for that pup? Was he 75? Better yet was he above 25? If so…$hit like that is just unacceptable. Especially since it’s easy as hell to skill magic.

And you will realize that this guy is dragging the name of your favorite job through the mud

I don’t think I could have worded it better.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Then you'll actually come across one in a party, and he's wearing full Bison gear and you will rage even more because you have just met 5 other people who are less likely to ever invite a BST again in the future.

Six people in party, and one is the CHR++ BST. So, "5 other people who are less likely to ever invite a BST" includes yourself?

Or do you mean the CHR++ BST himself would avoid inviting BSTs?

Heheh.

* * *

I was the top DD in the last Abyssea exp group I joined. As a Dual Wield DD. A PLD/NIN, to be precise.

Here's hoping the next update will take away exp from alliances with too many gimps. May give leaders more incentives to kick that MNK75 with 51.93% hit rate and that THF who only averaged 251.51 with Dancing Edge. Heck, getting rid of the DNC who liked to solo his own mob instead of giving his party the benefit of Haste Samba to free up space for someone actually useful would be nice, too.

When my Vorpal Blade 's average out damaged DRGs' Penta Thrust's average, I wasn't entirely sure if I should be happy or sad... Probably sad. (Thought it was possible that I was much higher level than the DRG since I didn't check levels carefully, but the DRG with 433.63 Penta Thrust used Sonic Thrust, too. /sigh)

[Neverslip]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

getting rid of the DNC who liked to solo his own mob instead of giving his party the benefit of Haste Samba to free up space for someone actually useful would be nice, too.

My hands reflexively went for the strangle-move when I read that... but it happens all too often.

[Malacite]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

I was the top DD in the last Abyssea exp group I joined. As a Dual Wield DD. A PLD/NIN, to be precise.

.... what the fuck were the other DD's doing?

[Neverslip]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

.... what the fuck were the other DD's doing?

... looking at their nice new Magian Trial weapons that have the hidden effect: Do it all for you

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

.... what the fuck were the other DD's doing?

A bit of damage.

One SAM and one MNK actually had better (total) DPS, but either engaged late constantly or AFK'ed too much.

xxxxxxxxx MNK/WAR (fight #3-277)
Total DPS: 26.65
Total Dmg: 161891 12.22 %
Dmg Taken: 38432 18.80 %

In the same period,

Itazura PLD/NIN (fight #3-277)
Total DPS: 22.95
Total Dmg: 179296 18.28 %
Dmg Taken: 9583 4.69 %


The SAM vs PLD comparison:

xxxxx SAM(unknown-SJ) (fight #3-294)
Total DPS: 24.62
Total Dmg: 140662 13.57 %
Dmg Taken: 17451 8.16 %

Itazura PLD/NIN (fight #3-294)
Total DPS: 22.88
Total Dmg: 187456 18.08 %
Dmg Taken: 9858 4.61 %

Basically, I had better output while taking much less damage myself.


Didn't bother to compare too carefully with the rest, since they all had lower total DPS and I did:
Next highest melee DPS belong to a DRG/SAM (20.42*), and then ranged from 17.65* (DRG74!/WAR), 15.19 (MNK/WAR), 13.86* (DRG/SAM), 13.40 (MNK/WAR), etc., all the way down to 6.85 (Mr.-prefer-to-solo DNC) and 5.42 (THF/NIN).

* Didn't factor in wyvern damage since I didn't know which wyvern was whose. Figured even without a wyvern, a DRG/anything should out damage a PLD/NIN within 2-3 levels. Obviously I was mistaken.


* * *


That kind of damage output from the 'real' DDs is actually very typical for pickup groups.

Yes, THIS IS NORMAL.


* * *

For kicks, I also looked at the (direct) curing output:

xxxxxxxx DNC 41132*
Dragonwing WHM 36181
Itazura PLD/NIN 33142
xxxxxxxxxxx WHM 31410
xxxxxxxxxxx RDM 30697
xxxxxx PLD/WAR 29675
xxxxx 'DD' WHM/NIN 2717 (8.72 total DPS. Yes, he beat the THF.)

* This DNC liked to solo mobs--not sure what his SJ was, but didn't cast utsusemi; basically cured only himself, since he was taking lots and lots of damage. He'd move off his target once the main /assist person Provoked/Flashed his Pachypodium, so he can spend his TP curing himself and spend his time NOT giving others Samba.

I guess in his mind, he was doing good for the group by 'holding' monsters for us? Not sure how he managed that delusion in an alliance with plenty of RDMs and BLMs. (Yes, he'd wake up stuff already slept until the sleepers all gave up.)


* * *


A long, long time ago, I mentioned on this forum that a PLD's place in merit party is prying critters off of the puller (now I call that main /assist, or MA), contribute a bit of damage, and helping with cures. For Abyssea exp, I think the PLD still can fill that role*.

(* Some people already starting to say PLDs in Abyssea is 'leeaching' or just plain useless, though. lol. It's like exp Lv.70+ and meripo all over again.)

I wasn't the main /assist in that alliance (since there were already two PLDs when I joined), but I think I earned my place with the combined DD and cure output.

[Ketaru]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Six people in party, and one is the CHR++ BST. So, "5 other people who are less likely to ever invite a BST" includes yourself?

Or do you mean the CHR++ BST himself would avoid inviting BSTs?

When I use Olduum Ring, sometimes I see parties at the Leypoint and sometimes they do have BSTs in them.

I did, however, party with one in Abyssea who did not call pets. I was leveling SCH at the time and I wanted so badly to have been able to change jobs right there and then.

that THF who only averaged 251.51 with Dancing Edge.

'DD' WHM/NIN (8.72 total DPS. Yes, he beat the THF.)

Straight from the Pet Peeve thread, I see your THF who only averaged 251.51 with Dancing Edge and raise you 1 THF that missed Dancing Edge.

[Karinya]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

The next update is quite likely to improve abyssea exp: higher level people = more kills per minute = more light = more chance of getting time extend chests before you time out. Even without factoring in any new camps, abilities, or gear, the chance of an alliance of 80-90s getting to time extends is going to be *significantly* better than 75-80s just because of the skill and base stat gains and the way level figures into some formulas. It's quite possible that you won't even need a full alliance.

More reliable CC, less chance of resisted nukes when going for azure light, and more mages able to refresh themselves and others aren't going to hurt either, of course. And it's highly likely that SE will continue handing out the tier Vs to BLM, SCH, and PUP, and the tier IVs to RDM, which may make it easier to get azure lights.

And once you hit the point of self-sustaining time extends, you're going to accumulate ruby/ebon/gold light faster and get more kills per hour and more exp chests per hour, too, for the same reasons.

Since abyssea exp doesn't directly depend on your level the way ordinary exp does, higher level characters that perform better will earn more exp for their alliance.

[odjnlinus]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

A bit of damage.

One SAM and one MNK actually had better (total) DPS, but either engaged late constantly or AFK'ed too much.

xxxxxxxxx MNK/WAR (fight #3-277)
Total DPS: 26.65
Total Dmg: 161891 12.22 %
Dmg Taken: 38432 18.80 %

In the same period,

Itazura PLD/NIN (fight #3-277)
Total DPS: 22.95
Total Dmg: 179296 18.28 %
Dmg Taken: 9583 4.69 %


The SAM vs PLD comparison:

xxxxx SAM(unknown-SJ) (fight #3-294)
Total DPS: 24.62
Total Dmg: 140662 13.57 %
Dmg Taken: 17451 8.16 %

Itazura PLD/NIN (fight #3-294)
Total DPS: 22.88
Total Dmg: 187456 18.08 %
Dmg Taken: 9858 4.61 %

Basically, I had better output while taking much less damage myself.


Didn't bother to compare too carefully with the rest, since they all had lower total DPS and I did:
Next highest melee DPS belong to a DRG/SAM (20.42*), and then ranged from 17.65* (DRG74!/WAR), 15.19 (MNK/WAR), 13.86* (DRG/SAM), 13.40 (MNK/WAR), etc., all the way down to 6.85 (Mr.-prefer-to-solo DNC) and 5.42 (THF/NIN).

* Didn't factor in wyvern damage since I didn't know which wyvern was whose. Figured even without a wyvern, a DRG/anything should out damage a PLD/NIN within 2-3 levels. Obviously I was mistaken.


* * *


That kind of damage output from the 'real' DDs is actually very typical for pickup groups.

Yes, THIS IS NORMAL.


* * *

For kicks, I also looked at the (direct) curing output:

xxxxxxxx DNC 41132*
Dragonwing WHM 36181
Itazura PLD/NIN 33142
xxxxxxxxxxx WHM 31410
xxxxxxxxxxx RDM 30697
xxxxxx PLD/WAR 29675
xxxxx 'DD' WHM/NIN 2717 (8.72 total DPS. Yes, he beat the THF.)

* This DNC liked to solo mobs--not sure what his SJ was, but didn't cast utsusemi; basically cured only himself, since he was taking lots and lots of damage. He'd move off his target once the main /assist person Provoked/Flashed his Pachypodium, so he can spend his TP curing himself and spend his time NOT giving others Samba.

I guess in his mind, he was doing good for the group by 'holding' monsters for us? Not sure how he managed that delusion in an alliance with plenty of RDMs and BLMs. (Yes, he'd wake up stuff already slept until the sleepers all gave up.)


* * *


A long, long time ago, I mentioned on this forum that a PLD's place in merit party is prying critters off of the puller (now I call that main /assist, or MA), contribute a bit of damage, and helping with cures. For Abyssea exp, I think the PLD still can fill that role*.

(* Some people already starting to say PLDs in Abyssea is 'leeaching' or just plain useless, though. lol. It's like exp Lv.70+ and meripo all over again.)

I wasn't the main /assist in that alliance (since there were already two PLDs when I joined), but I think I earned my place with the combined DD and cure output.

Too bad I wasn't there, just did Abyssea last night as DRG/BLU and not only was I doing some crazy DPS, but I was also curing myself with Healing Breath hitting me for well over 400-550 because I'm just that good with my gear, and yeah it's pretty gimped

[Malacite]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Man, you have got some shitty DD's on your server wow...

There is no excuse to lose out to a PLD, ever.

[Elwynn]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

Now though, there's no reason to not be able to skill up on Mobs at the very least.

I kind of liked things the way they were before The Nerf. You could skill up on the mobs... without tags on. That meant normal death XP loss penalties if Bad Things happened. The risk involved was why SE should never have nerfed that. Instead they came up with WoE, which gives you wootdubbelskillups, but turned out to be otherwise made of fail.

And also of course, offensive battles are shit because so much time is spent in fort-bashing mode, which is effectively ZERO EXP, with no reason to stay around after the enemy is gone, other than to outlast everybody else to get a few pathetic drops from the union chest.

I thought then and still do that the real problem was bad pathing in Eldieme and the other two dungeon areas. Eldieme was such a part-ay all the time, on Fairy. (Though other servers had griefers who would MPK the fort bashers.) I took my WHM from 70 to 75 there, after having gone from <40 to 70 doing proper campaign battles. And I even did skill-ups without tags on, from which I learned that regular campaign mobs were probably level 65.


And as for upgrading expensive gear through magian trials, the big problem with this is of course that the item becomes permanently non-tradeable. And especially given the track record of the first attempts at augments, who would want to make an expensive item EX for an augment, only to find out later that they're locked out of something better? I haven't heard of a way to fully-unaugment stuff to the point where it's mule-able again, and I'm certainly not going to go grinding magian trials for a potential inventory porker. Especially something that couldn't be sold if a better base gear comes around, which is a definite concern in the next few months.

But then I really don't care about playing the "endgame" stuff in FFXI. I'm still having fun with the "midgame". I'd rather play well with decent gear on PS2 than play mediocre and lean on a bunch of uber gear and windower modules.

As for that pup? Was he 75? Better yet was he above 25? If so…$hit like that is just unacceptable. Especially since it’s easy as hell to skill magic.

Why do I have the feeling he astral burned his pup, or more likely spammed level sync on lolibri in E-Ron using nothing but the rng frame?

I consider myself kind of gimp on pup, but that's because I haven't really had the time to sit down and figure out how the various parts work. I'm only now reaching that point, and will get more serious when it hits 60. But I do try to experiment, which is more than this guy could ever comprehend. Right now I've got some bastard Soulsoother + Valoredge combo that doesn't cast spells, but boy it's got a lot of def.* It feels a bit gimp, but at least I'm not trying to party with it. I've barely gotten a WHM frame to heal, but when I did, I was trying COR/PUP on FoV in Buburimu, which is a crazy as hell combo because you have to time your gear swaps right if you want to use a ranged WS. Let's see our Abyssea genius try that shit.

*my pup's setup

Soulsoother+Valoredge
Strobe/Stealth - Inhibitor - Turbo Charger - Tension Spring II
Accellerator II - Coiler - Shock Absorber - Armor Plate
Armor Plate II - Optic Fiber - Auto Repair II - Flashbulb/Auto Repair Kit
(normally using stealth and flashbulb)
Fire: attack, Provoke with Strobe
Light: Regen, Flash
Earth: Stoneskin, defense
Wind: Haste, evasion
Thunder: double attack
(I was trying to get a WHM that could tank like a jug pet, and ended up with a gimp PLD who never casts heals. But it's such a stupidly complicated form of gimp that I can't help but feel proud of it.)

Here's hoping the next update will take away exp from alliances with too many gimps. May give leaders more incentives to kick that MNK75 with 51.93% hit rate and that THF who only averaged 251.51 with Dancing Edge. Heck, getting rid of the DNC who liked to solo his own mob instead of giving his party the benefit of Haste Samba to free up space for someone actually useful would be nice, too.

You're kidding, right? You really expect SE to nerf something that precisely? Without turning the whole thing into a sticky wad of fail gum stuck under the table? The same SE that came up with filters as a response to spam... and never updates said filters such that the RMT have been using the same ".ÇOM" shit for months?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

You're kidding, right? You really expect SE to nerf something that precisely? Without turning the whole thing into a sticky wad of fail gum stuck under the table? The same SE that came up with filters as a response to spam... and never updates said filters such that the RMT have been using the same ".ÇOM" shit for months?

I don't think the people in charge of that side of FFXI have been in residence for the best part of 6 months. I mean other random stuff like the fact Synergy isn't on the crafting menu after how long?. The translator is equally half a year or more behind and items like the Perle Salade are still floating around with incorrect information. It's fairly evident the A through to Y team have moved on to 14 now.