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New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

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  • #31
    Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

    No. The Dragoon community is all abuzz because for TPing in Perle beats the hell out of all the old stuff so long as you have appropriate store TP pieces. I seem to recall the consensus was that unless you have Dusk Gloves +1 you're better off just going with Perle. If that isn't eclipsing old gear entirely, I don't know what is.
    I was thinking more along the lines of items from events that can take months or even years to show up acquire suddenly being regarded as complete and utter trash.
    I'm sorry you DRGs can't use Byakko's Haidate. Oh look, another piece of gear that has reigned supreme since the beginning of the game that every piece of legging since has been compared against. "Well, it's nice, but it's still not as good as elemental staves." Don't you think it's bad for a Dev if you keep making new gear, and nobody wants to use it? Even Scorpion Harness was considered premium gear at one point. The doomsayers picketed when Pahluwan gear was introduced. "Oh! No one will respect players who poured tears, blood, and sweat into getting gear anymore! Instead all you have to do is spam Assaults and get gear that has reduced my totally leet SH to just another Acc set!"

    DRG aside, some people still think the new gear is complete and utter trash, at least when you give in to the temptation to full time it as a whole, as some of the most gimptastic on the server have done. Full Perle may not, in and of itself be bad, but 9/10 times, you check somebody with full Perle, you can guess how bad the rest of their gear is.

    I myself am trying to avoid using the new gear, but I don't have Haidate yet so switching to Aurore Legs and Feet could not be helped. But the fact is neither set gives my particular job certain niche attributes that I need, like Pet Acc.

    broken mechanic's (campaign)
    It's broken because it doesn't reward you the way you want it to? Or it's broken because it doesn't conform to the standard ways of getting EXP before it was introduced, which would basically make it- I don't know- new?

    On the other hand, they created a battle event in the game that people do on a regular basis. It no longer has the pull it once had simply because the EXP gained from Abyssea is broken (you don't seem to mind that Abyssea zones are simply cragless rehashes of the old zones). It was something you could log on to and just do, rather than seeking for hours or window shopping the AH for things you can't afford. And no matter how much people may hate the "But I have to have melee levels skilled" or "But I have to sub a healing job" factor to it, the fact is there are people playing jobs that do try to explore niche facets of those jobs and would like to be rewarded for putting effort into them. I have +19% Haste on my RDM and I know where to get more. Should I not have somewhere in the game where I am allowed to put it to good use?

    Oh. And I seem to recall that, after the level cap increased and before people "discovered" the wonders of Abyssea, people flocked to Campaign in droves.

    And I know for a fact that people bitch just as loudly when SE gives them too much to do.
    Straight from the bowels of Allakhazam:

    I wish they would slow down on the level cap increases, a lot of people are still recovering from the last one with leveling/skilling up/magians etc and now they are not only doing it again really soon after the first but it's gonna be an extra 10 levels for every job. Far too much grind in a really short space of time and not much else, even for FFXI.
    Last edited by Ketaru; 08-17-2010, 01:31 PM.
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    • #32
      Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

      Originally posted by Ketaru View Post
      It's broken because it doesn't reward you the way you want it to? Or it's broken because it doesn't conform to the standard ways of getting EXP before it was introduced, which would basically make it- I don't know- new?
      No it's broken because it has horrible issues that have never been addressed.

      1. "Man this 2 hour 5 wave campaign battle is awesome! I've only died once, and have gotten the kilshot on over 20 mobs! I'm gonna get a ton of exp!....wait......what's that red dot.....NO.....DON'T D/C!!!!OHGODNO....INTERNET!!! NOOOOOEEESSSS."

      2. Man I sure wish I could skill up....because not being able to skill up in campaign was very important (and yeah skilling up on a wall is retarded but me fighting a mob that takes me 15-20 minutes to kill solo dosen't involve any skill??)

      3. Dodging Amphiter's. IS. RETARDED. they addressed it in one of the updates, just ... not enough.

      4. fight all week to re-claim a zone, 8 hours before campaign tally reset's JP's aren't foucused on it, lose zone because the beast man weren't kept in check, good job through the rest of the week though /shrug.

      5. oh wow, the menu to talk to the campaign arbiter is so blazingly fast HOW CAN I NOT JOIN A UNION!

      6. yay!! time to go campaign, catch a retrace in WG, >>opens menu<< alright Vunkerl Inlet looks promising! Alright time to go get tags and BLHADSFGLHASDKJLGH BATTLE OVER....

      7. Man I sure wish someone would raise me.... well atleast i'm close to the retrace NPC....um...guys...your wearing a Duelist chapeau...I know you can raise me...um....hello? anybody?

      8. heck ya! battle just started.....>>20 mins later<< um...where the hell are the mobs ??

      I'm sure there's more, and you could argue that some of those are just my opinion about certain things and that I want them to work the way I want them to work. Or you could realize that campaign STILL has problems, and that I can almost garuNTee you, those problems won't be addressed. ever.

      ---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

      Originally posted by Ketaru View Post
      Oh. And I seem to recall that, after the level cap increased and before people "discovered" the wonders of Abyssea, people flocked to Campaign in droves.
      And then theys stopped. Because spending 3 hours and getting 20k is bullshit compared to getting 160k in that same time frame.... but then I guess you called that broken... /shrug, I call that progress.

      Anyone that says the like grinding is lying. the FFXI grind was epic, but epic grinding doesn't get you the player base. Some call it challenging, but I personally feel like the challenge is NOT quitting. I don't consider that challenging, i consider that "SE exploiting the addictive nature of their product"

      TL;DR : SQUARE ENIX = BIG TOBBACO

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      • #33
        Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

        FFXI was a game where the level cap remained static for over seven years. Players could justify spending two or more years to acquire a piece of gear knowing it wouldn't beaten. Now, compare that to a game, like WoW, where the cap raises every expansion and the gear is completely reset. S-E appear to have adopted the WoW model while disregarding the effort their remaining playerbase expended to date. More importantly, you can't adopt that approach of gear obsolescence while retaining the same harrowing, and frankly disgusting, droprates.

        Outside of Abyssea, I'm seeing a drastic drop in numbers in every other endgame event now. Once these two updates are finished all FFXI will be about will be one event and I find that kind of sad after being a game that you struggled to find enough hours in the day to do every event.

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        • #34
          Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

          Originally posted by Romyro View Post
          Not entirely true…I have a magian trial that involved killing ghosts during ice day/weather. In Fei’Yin (sp) there are some ghosts that are EP and aggro to 75 (not all of them though). The EPs gave credit. At 76…all were too weak/no credit.
          Utukku are 55-57, which is right on the boundary. If you kill off all the EP ones, only TWs will be left.

          The Hellish Weapons are right on the aggro boundary, by being 61-63.
          Elwynn @ Fairy Elwynbelwyn @ Sylph | PS2 PC
          99 Everything, mostly play PUP, WHM, and sometimes BST
          F13.1 W60.0 S54.1 G63.2 Cl70.0+1 L70.0 B54.0 A69.4 Co59.6

          >2012
          >not having all jobs at 99


          Quasilumin : Examination complete. Examinee unregistered. Kuluu syndrome detected. Displays tendency towards cowardice. Report to infirmary for treatment.

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          • #35
            Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

            And then theys stopped. Because spending 3 hours and getting 20k is bullshit compared to getting 160k in that same time frame.... but then I guess you called that broken... /shrug, I call that progress.
            And it is done in zones that are cragless rehashes of old zones. These are the same zones that the gear you so despise because it makes old gear obsolete comes from.

            I'm curious. Where in my post did I say I was against getting 160K EXP? Why are you ignoring my points about elemental staves and Byakko's haidate? You do know that full Aurore isn't actually very good right?

            What about it? You seem to have something against new gear outdoing old gear, at least on DRG. It sounds to me like "you" are the one against progress. It sounds to me like you are the one who wants the game to remain the status quo. I'm the one who wants people to stop saying bullshit like "Oh, but it will never compare to <insert gear that was introduced in 2004>".
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            • #36
              Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

              Originally posted by Neverslip View Post
              Along this vein.. I have to laugh at all the non-Hagun SAMs I see suddenly out in Abyssea and that Hagun is now under 500k. I've not seen one SAM out do Hagun with all the Mag-trials or even the relic GK. I may be wrong and maybe I've missed something but unless MagT comes out with a "TP Bonus" augment I don't think Hagun will be dethroned any time soon.
              That's because you are wrong. Hagun's time in the sun is over. Long ass thread over it over at BG, but it basically boils down to you only need a base DMG of 92 to beat Hagun on WS, and the Magian GKT all hit around 91~93, with Relic and Empyreal beating that (Mythic too I believe) so yeah, Hagun's dead.

              Even the one I'm going for (91 DMG, STP +5) whoops Hagun's ass because of very close WSD and greatly increased DoT.


              And how is SE obsoleting old gear? Don't forget they plan to add armor to the list of Magian Trials. It was actually supposed to happen last update but I guess it got pushed back. I'd be extremely surprised if suddenly they just outright screw over people who put in the effort for Sky/Sea/Salvage gear (especially Salvage dear Lord talk about horrendous drop rates)



              Here's hoping that at 90 THF's TH3 trait will actually have a meaningful impact. I'm so sick and tired of the shitty drop rates in general in XI, and sadly from what I've heard it's not much better (if at all) in XIV
              Last edited by Malacite; 08-17-2010, 05:00 PM.
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              "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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              • #37
                Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                That's because you are wrong. Hagun's time in the sun is over. Long ass thread over it over at BG, but it basically boils down to you only need a base DMG of 92 to beat Hagun on WS, and the Magian GKT all hit around 91~93, with Relic and Empyreal beating that (Mythic too I believe) so yeah, Hagun's dead.
                Thanks for clearing that up... I would have never looked to BG because not only is the format of that website ridiculous and web-blocked for me; but many MANY of the regular posters there are complete and total assholes who bury the points to their in useless rhetoric.

                I can only go by what I see in the field. And so far... I'm unimpressed... possibly it's the rest of their gears being gimpt.
                FFxiv ~ (PS3 Beta) 24THM, 16LNC, 16CNJ, 15MRD/GLD/ARC/PUG
                FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                • #38
                  Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                  Originally posted by Ketaru View Post
                  It no longer has the pull it once had simply because the EXP gained from Abyssea is broken
                  You stated that in your opinion, the EXP gained from Abyssea is broken, which directly lead to the decline in Campaign participation. This was what I was calling you out on. It's not broken, again in my opinion, it's progress.

                  As for the gear, I am all about new gear. I have played this game since 04 and I have yet to get an E.body. I could probably lot it easy in my shell, through Einherjar but I don't play war or Drk and I have yet to delve into BST because I know i'm going to love it, and never want to bring anything else to events

                  Perle > I love it, is it the best? not most of the time, but it's a hell of an improvement over older TP choices, and since alot of less ....involved players....don't gear swap for JA's, WS's, Spells, I would much rather see someone fulltime 5/5 perle than askar head/hauberk(nq)/dusk etc.

                  Auroure, teal > Very situational, agian, the more hardcore players who are gearing for that 1/2 a percent gain on their DoT or WS avg, know where to swap in what piece. the less skilled or the non endgame participating player, just jumped up alot closer to the best by full timing it. The elitests (yes I tend to be one) are seriously playing for 1-3% difference in someone wear these new armor sets. (exceptions are given, with really great gear {salvage,odin,limbus,etc} the difference is a bit more, 5-10%, and when you throw in relics into that equation you get a little bit above that)

                  But I LIKE the way they're taking FFXI, I don't mind that my Duelist's chapeau just became the equivalent of a macro piece for enfeebles, becasue you can get an all jobs refresh hairpin from Abyssea la-theine. I love the magian stuff, and yeah fighting crummy ghosts in fei'yin is wack, and boring, but you can get really really good weapons, for minimal effort, (hello to you STP +7 polearm with 102DMG)

                  As for gear I think me and you, Ketaru, are on the same page, and are loving it. I will say i'm dreading getting my new stave's done for rdm and blm lol. it's alot of work, but ya know what, that's o.k. ^^ It's better than the level 51 staff that i've been using for the past 5 years. and that in my opinion is improvement.

                  I actually didn't address any of the gearing issues in my last post, I was soloy defending my stance on how dicked up campaign is ^^

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                  • #39
                    Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                    Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                    I was soloy defending my stance on how dicked up campaign is
                    Oh... Allied Ring... I do miss thee so... and will I ever get the chance again for the epic chest and helm for my SAM ... I do hope so.
                    FFxiv ~ (PS3 Beta) 24THM, 16LNC, 16CNJ, 15MRD/GLD/ARC/PUG
                    FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                    Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                    aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                    • #40
                      Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                      so true neverslip, I fought that battle around.... 9 times, each time it got open on Slyph, so 18 times, and I won around 7 times (shoutgroupsfail) and never saw sword,helm,body once. I could not bring myself to go stand up there wait for 3 hours for my "turn in line" and have another ass thinking shit head cut in front of me. 3 instances .... yeah fuck you SE. At no point has anyone said anything about skill required to wear your precious Shadow lord armor, when folks see that they think "Lucky", not "Man he's good".

                      Not saying all peeps with the armor suck, but spending 16 hours a day spaming the BCNM isn't skill full to me.

                      but yeah, I love the fact that easy to get, decent looking armor, closed the gap between the hardcore salvage spaming/nidhogg camping/dynamis crawling eliteststs....sst.

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                      • #41
                        Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                        I never got a chance to fight it.

                        My group of buddies kinda fizzled out ... We made the trip and figured out along the way that it's best and easiest to just all go as a group. Specially when the admittedly-so accident prone p/u person died 3x on the way up and gave up on the journey. We had to acquire him once up there when one of our buddies DC'd and never came back (black-out). Then we could never organize another trip before the week was done. Then came the update. I'd love just to do the fight but I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.
                        FFxiv ~ (PS3 Beta) 24THM, 16LNC, 16CNJ, 15MRD/GLD/ARC/PUG
                        FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                        Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                        aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                        • #42
                          Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                          Originally posted by Neverslip View Post
                          I can only go by what I see in the field. And so far... I'm unimpressed... possibly it's the rest of their gears being gimpt.
                          Yes because eyeballing the chatlog is so reliable.
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                          "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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                          • #43
                            Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                            Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                            Yes because eyeballing the chatlog is so reliable.
                            Actually it's that none of the other DDs can pull hate off me after I WS more-so than anything I see in the chat log. I'm too busy doing my job anyway to look at the chat-log for anything other than instruction. Maybe they are just your typical I'm-too-good-to-put-forth-an-effort-elitest-endgamer who would rather leech off people who like to play their jobs to their utmost. I notice Meditate/Sekkanoki isn't used very much either. In order to not put too much strain on the healers I not only keep shadows up as much as possible, I have a Evasion gear-set macro that has saved my SAMa$$ many times.

                            So I guess I'm just running into people who think because they have a better weapon they don't have to work as hard anymore.

                            fyi - Too much bold is a sign of over compensation.
                            FFxiv ~ (PS3 Beta) 24THM, 16LNC, 16CNJ, 15MRD/GLD/ARC/PUG
                            FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                            Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                            aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                            • #44
                              Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                              Originally posted by cidbahamut View Post
                              I'm going to say this slowly and clearly so there is no confusion.

                              You are wrong.
                              You are an idiot.
                              When you can't debate, insult.

                              Originally posted by cidbahamut View Post
                              I was thinking more along the lines of items from events that can take months or even years to show up acquire suddenly being regarded as complete and utter trash.
                              Because that's never happened before (hint, it has).

                              Originally posted by Ketaru View Post
                              It's broken because it doesn't reward you the way you want it to? Or it's broken because it doesn't conform to the standard ways of getting EXP before it was introduced, which would basically make it- I don't know- new?
                              Oh no, Campaign does have it's issues. It's still a great event, but it's far from perfect, and the level cap increases will just muff things up that much more.

                              Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                              I'm sure there's more, and you could argue that some of those are just my opinion about certain things and that I want them to work the way I want them to work. Or you could realize that campaign STILL has problems, and that I can almost garuNTee you, those problems won't be addressed. ever.
                              1, 4 and 7 are more or less player issues, not much SE can really do about it. 2 I can somewhat understand nowadays, but when Campaign first started it was obvious they didn't want to make it *too* good. Now though, there's no reason to not be able to skill up on Mobs at the very least. 5 and 6 are more or less Lag issues, an annoyance but nothing really gamebreaking. 8 is an actual thing they can fix though, wall Exp should be reboosted if they're going to take so long to show up on defense, and an attack campaign shouldn't actually start until the mobs are actively on their way.

                              Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                              And then theys stopped. Because spending 3 hours and getting 20k is bullshit compared to getting 160k in that same time frame.... but then I guess you called that broken... /shrug, I call that progress.
                              Simple fix is to boost the exp caps on Campaign, but considering you have unlimited access to it and can go into it completely solo, the boost doesn't have to be that substantial. For people to pump out the kind of Exp you see in Abyssea you need a full alliance, which takes more 'work' to set up and keep running. More effort, more reward.

                              Originally posted by Grizzlebeard View Post
                              FFXI was a game where the level cap remained static for over seven years. Players could justify spending two or more years to acquire a piece of gear knowing it wouldn't beaten. Now, compare that to a game, like WoW, where the cap raises every expansion and the gear is completely reset. S-E appear to have adopted the WoW model while disregarding the effort their remaining playerbase expended to date. More importantly, you can't adopt that approach of gear obsolescence while retaining the same harrowing, and frankly disgusting, droprates.

                              Outside of Abyssea, I'm seeing a drastic drop in numbers in every other endgame event now. Once these two updates are finished all FFXI will be about will be one event and I find that kind of sad after being a game that you struggled to find enough hours in the day to do every event.
                              A) Old super gear will be subject to upgrade through Magian Trials B) Many old super gear pieces are still top tier, new gear just raised the standard, not the peak C) Old super gear pieces have been outdated before...without raising the level cap in any way, SE is just good at avoiding that due to being able to add those niche pieces D) People still do plenty of other endgame events on my server, to the point where City Dynas, Limbus, Nyzul etc etc are still going. If anything, the level cap increase will make them more popular with Casuals who can low man things easier to obtain old super gear while hardcorers will have new events (Abyssea, WoE when they fix it and whatever other events they add) to focus on to get their newer super gear.

                              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                              Here's hoping that at 90 THF's TH3 trait will actually have a meaningful impact. I'm so sick and tired of the shitty drop rates in general in XI, and sadly from what I've heard it's not much better (if at all) in XIV
                              Here's hoping Thf actually gets a useful ability at 90 cap instead of just a crappy TH3. Despoil was an ass of an idea, making it share a timer with an already limited use, absurdly long (for what it does) recast ability and to only give it another barely useful function at best (stealing useless foods while giving a completely random debuff?) was a terrible idea. There's no reason the two should share a timer, as neither ability is all that powerful. Even with full Aura Steal, Steal is *still* massively restrictive in function, making Despoil do something even more useless while sharing the same recast was down right retarded.

                              Originally posted by Neverslip View Post
                              but many MANY of the regular posters there are complete and total assholes who bury the points to their in useless rhetoric.
                              Actually, when you get into the MATHS on BG, they get right to business. Mods there are actually pretty super strict when it comes to some things, especially if it involves blatant stupidity. Though you need a tough skin to survive there, it's really a decent (i.e. best place) for new, hard fact info.
                              "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                              • #45
                                Re: New Version Update Announcement! (08/11/2010)

                                Originally posted by Ziero View Post
                                A) Old super gear will be subject to upgrade through Magian Trials
                                Show me proof of this statement then I might give more than a second to the rest of your post.

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