Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

[Feba]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

And as for Meteor, I just thought of something horrible... what if they pull an Odin/Alex and make it automatically invoke Manafont?

Would be funnier to just set the MP requirement at something ridiculously high; say 2000-3000 depending on where we cap out at 99. Make it just barely possible for a Taru with the right gear to cast it once before all of their MP is gone. Everyone else has to manafont just to cast it.

Alternatively, do something like a Meteor Swarm. After the first cast, meteors keep falling until you run out of MP. Without manafont, a decently damaging spell taking all of your MP; with manafont, thirty seconds of pain.

[Ketaru]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

As for "everybody gets full convert", if you haven't checked exactly what convert does, please do so before continuing to whine about it not being nerfed. It so happens that RDM's max HP and MP are usually about even, and that's important. SMNs are going to be so pissed if they don't find out how it works until after they reach 80 and try it themselves. (Ohey SMN HP build kplx?) Convert is quite good at nerfing itself if you have significantly more MP than HP. (now I my Cobra Robe Set gear even more)

To be fair, it is really only about even for Tarutaru RDMs. Most other races, HP outnumbers MP so you really should have some MP gear for Convert. Even I have some modest MP gear in my Convert macro.

The truth is I find most people who actually talk about what they like about RDM aren't all that upset about other jobs getting Refresh and Convert. Personally, I already think Convert has lost a lot of its thunder when SCH was introduced. Something tells me, even after the cap increase, a lot of WHM's will still want to sub /SCH because Convert alone is not a good reason to sub /RDM, if you ask me. Even Refresh seems like a poor reason to sub it.

I'm not afraid that RDM will suddenly become the mage of yesteryear after the cap increase. Yes, more people will have access to Haste. But at level 80, the only sub you can wear with that is /WHM. /RDM provides SCH with so much of the ground it does not cover that I'm willing to bet SCHs will be resistant to the thought of subbing /WHM. I know I am right now. But like I said once, all I see the level cap update doing is finally leveling the playing field between the mages. If people suddenly have a hard time getting invites as RDM, it's because the player base has saturated the job pool with so many (yesterday, a quick search revealed about 180 level 75 RDMs online. There were only 90 level 75 WHMs. All other jobs didn't even break 70 people).

....besides, it's not like being a less desirable job is somehow new to me.

[Malacite]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

I'm not afraid that RDM will suddenly become the mage of yesteryear after the cap increase. Yes, more people will have access to Haste. But at level 80, the only sub you can wear with that is /WHM. /RDM provides SCH with so much of the ground it does not cover that I'm willing to bet SCHs will be resistant to the thought of subbing /WHM. I know I am right now.

Depends on the situation greatly. WHM sub means Haste, as well as Erase & Na spells without having to dip into Add: White. IMO, AoE haste > AoE Phalanx for a merit party. It's not like you're losing stoneskin and blink either. So for general EXP/Merits I can see /WHM winning out easily. RDM sub will still ultimately rule I'm sure by 99, but Accession Haste is just too nice.

[Firewind]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

I thought higher tiered nukes were affected by MAB more? Or is that purely because of the increased base damage?

Fairly sure it's a bit of both. Higher base damage and higher damage "soft cap" = Bigger effect from MAB overall.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Fairly sure it's a bit of both. Higher base damage and higher damage "soft cap" = Bigger effect from MAB overall.

Now were just being picky.

[Ketaru]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Depends on the situation greatly. WHM sub means Haste, as well as Erase & Na spells without having to dip into Add: White. IMO, AoE haste > AoE Phalanx for a merit party. It's not like you're losing stoneskin and blink either. So for general EXP/Merits I can see /WHM winning out easily. RDM sub will still ultimately rule I'm sure by 99, but Accession Haste is just too nice.

It's not so much what is nice as much as it is what is boring. I really like having Fast Cast, Magic Attack Bonus (which will be upped to tier 2 after this update), and Enspells. Of course, a lot of damage dealers will sub /NIN even though it offers them no benefits to their ability to deal damage, but they always bite their tongue doing so.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

And for that I scorn them. I think I used that word right.... Scorn.

Edit: Totally used that right.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Just two things....

[Double Shot]
[True Shot]

This will easily push me over 4k on SW. Enjoy your Sekkanoki. RNG is still king. Who needs to tank when the mob's already dead or doesn't know you're -really- there.

The guy with the BFG always wins.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Your still gonna sub nin arent ya. >.>

[Karinya]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Accession Haste is just too nice.

Apparently, SE agrees. XD

SCH80/WHM40 will still get *regular* Haste, though, which ain't too shabby compared to the RDM-specific spells they're giving up at that level.

It'll be more interesting from 82-95, though. A SCH has little value added by having Refresh for themselves, but if you have a PLD and BLU, they might appreciate it more than Haste... although other DDs would certainly disagree. Oh well, we'll have to figure that out in a few more months.

[MrMageo]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

It'll be more interesting from 82-95, though. A SCH has little value added by having Refresh for themselves, but if you have a PLD and BLU, they might appreciate it more than Haste... although other DDs would certainly disagree. Oh well, we'll have to figure that out in a few more months.

Which is why I don't understand the emo rage on some other RDM forums. You have parties with people who need refresh you get a RDM you have parties that don't you get a SCH. At 82>95 WHM is equal to RDM so really all SE has done is finally at last balanced the mage jobs in a way that makes them all useful. Heck even a BLM can /WHM and main heal with haste now too. But will they sell their souls for 25-30K/hr

[Karinya]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Heck even a BLM can /WHM and main heal with haste now too. But will they sell their souls for 25-30K/hr

Some probably would, except... when does blm/whm get cure IV? Do you really want a healer without it at 75, let alone afterward?

But in any case, there's no reason to believe that late 70s-80 exp will have the same dynamics as early 70s exp. Lots of people (including me) hate the way early 70s exp plays.

[MrMageo]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Well lots of people including me hate the way EXP has played across many levels since ToAU was released. Im not a big fan of the same 7 jobs only mentality, and I hope SE has something in store for changing that post 80. Such as a return to SC + MB style of play.

But i serously doubt SE will go back to the style a lo of us leveled on back pre toau. It was slow, and very time consuming, which didn't allow for much balance when it came to events. Granted at the time there was only a handful. Now with Sea,Sky,Salvage,Dyna,Limbus,Einherjar,Nyzul,Assaults,Walk of Echoes there just isn't enough time for the casual player (who this game is clearly being geared towards finally) to enjoy everything the game ah to offer, while trying to exp @ 6-8K/hr.

To answer your question BLM will get C4 @ 82 /WHM and 96 /RDM basically the main issue will be is will it be enough when we get to that point. Cure VI maybe VII is likely for WHM, V, maybe VI for RDM and SCH.