Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

[Ziero]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

What i was getting at was that SAM's DD is through their ability to store up TP and pump out ws so much faster than anyother DD job. I cant argue with you their, its straight fact. But if you take away ws period and just look at over dmg from regualr attacks other DD job out rank SAM easily.
Now that other DD jobs get ahold of Sekkanoki at 80 they will be able to do just as many ws as SAM just as fast. Since other DD jobs' ws consistantly do more dmg than SAM ws they will get out DD'd left and right.

...dude, Sekkanoki has nothing to do with Sam's gain TP (which they'll still be doing circles around every other job), it's all about the ability to blast out a continuous stream of WSs. Between Sekk, full power Meditation, tons of natural STP traits and just the way their WS work, Sam is still going to be a top tier monster DD.

The only job that would be able to abuse this is war atm since raging rush skillchains with itself but I'm not that worried about it

Dnc, Drg, Drk and hell even Blu would probably see more use and better returns from Sekk then War will. Those jobs have better TP gaining speeds/abilities and/or have more reason to retain HP then War. War's DPS will still be at it's peak using burn tactics, but Zerg Drks, Jump spamming Dncs, Self SCing Blus and DD Dncs will all love being able to store up extra TP while still dropping big WSs. Just making simple self SCs is severely limiting the possibilities of this ability.

Lol you know what I mean.

Geez I can do it in MS word, and they use it for almost everything else .....

The adjustments in the far left column, with boxes to the right of the name of the adjustment with the associated job abbreviations. Not that hard to do. The point is, they could have made it a lot more legible.

...what in the bloody blue hell are you talking about? Are you seriously bitching about the formatting SE uses in it's update notes after it's Copy/pasted? Seriously? I mean, I know XI players like to complain about everything, but that's just beyond being a ridiculous nitpick.

The formatting for the update notes on their official site are just fine. SE does not, nor should they, give a rats ass about what happens to the formatting once it's copy and pasted.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

the reason why i didnt say war misusing was because they are still skillchaing, just in the same mentality that the sames and blu do IE: with themselves, of course sekkanoki available as a sub job will encourage more ppl to skillchain with each other, it's all I ever wanted really since I started playing.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Uh...Correct me if I'm wrong but SAM had become to "throw more XXX at it" job when it comes to melees.

Think this is exaggerated.

In highly buffed parties, WARs and DRKs are very competitive, if not outright better. Also, WAR's Provoke makes it works well variety of situations (providing first Provoke in merit party, Nyzul Isle; main /assist in Dynamis; etc.), while DRK is always a great choice when there's a COR for Chaos Roll or when one more Stun person is useful.

When you have only a small number of DDs in a mini-zerg situation, SAM is terrific with self-SC. However, once you have like three more DDs, asking other DDs to wait 30~40 second not doing WS just becomes silly, and SAM ends up just soloing single Gekko's (or I guess spam Penta Thrust), greatly reducing their individual contribution.

Kraken Club DRKs, though, you can keep tossing in. Mighty Strike WARs are also not all that bad in fully buffed zergs.

Although I'm a reasonably gear SAM (and I out DD everyone else in my Dynamis LS), I often wished I had leveled WAR or DRK instead as my DD job.

Or maybe MNK; no-weapon first floor in Salvage as SAM? Er, I'll pass--taking my RDM instead.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

I think the things about people wanting sam was that a sam/nin with good timing can do decent damage spikes and migrate hate at the same time while everyone else can only use shadows or seigan, idk why people think shadows are infinitely better then seigan just because you can control when you cast them.

[Neverslip]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

\(ToT)/

SE loves me ... they really really luvz meez!!!!

Win... win... WIN!!!!!!

... can't come up with anything coherent...

[Laynton]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

But that's an even sillier reason, because if you don't have all that stuff, then you already have stuff to look forward to, and hardly need more. It seems to me it's more like "Hey, I wanted new stuff too, no fair, guys, no fair!" which is just silly. Job updates aren't handed out like presents at Christmas.

Unless, of course, your parents were really sadistic and liked playing power games with their children.

updates for DNC seemed like they were christmas presents given by really rich parents if you ask me.

RDM is getting access to Tier IV nukes and they are complaining?

I'm not complaing about that. Not really complaining at all more of just voicing my disapointment that the only "NEW" thing we got was baramnesia.While ever other job got something "NEW". Maybe I had my hopes too high for this update and need to be patient and see what comes in the future.

I dont think sekkanoki works like that since it technically doenst help GET tp at all. basically all DD's jobs will be able to do now is skillchain easier by being able to do 2 weapon skills back to back. They still need to get to 200tp by themselves anyway. The only job that would be able to abuse this is war atm since raging rush skillchains with itself but I'm not that worried about it. I'm just wondering if the wars restrain move extends to weapon skills and if the damage bonus is greater then having a crit occur during RR.

I know how it works and I wasnt saying that it gets you tp faster. if thats how it came across sorry. Didn't know only war can self sc. havent lvld DD jobs that much so havent realy learn sc combos and such so that does change my view a little. But the point still stands that other DD ws consistantly do more dmg than SAM ws. Yes DD's will have to go back to timing ws for sc like the old days instead of just spamming ws like we do know. Which might happen more often now with MB dmg upgrade. ok im going to try and explain with example, hopefully get it across more clearly.
TODAY *using a typical merit party set w/ sam/nin 2 DD/sam*
SAM WS gekko 700 dmg + WS (whatever it is for darkness, i forgot) 700 dmg + darkness 1400 dmg = 2800 DMG
WAR WS King's justice 1000 dmg + DRG WS Dragonsbane 1000dmg + No WS = 2000 DMG
SAM WINS!!!

AFTER UPDATE *using a typical merit party set w/ sam/nin 2 DD/sam*
SAM WS gekko 900 dmg + WS (whatever it is for darkness, i forgot) 900 dmg + darkness 1800 dmg = 3600 DMG
WAR + sekkanoki + WS Kin's Justice 1300 dmg + DRG WS Dragonsbane 1300 dmg +WAR WS King's Justice 1300 dmg + SC darkness 1500 dmg = 4100 DMG
SAM LOOSES!!!
*note 1: i know the ws listed dont produce sc, theyre just placeholders cuz i dont know which do"
*note 2: DRG still has sekkanoki and couldve have used to do do 4 ws + sc, or 2 2ws+sc. either way still out does SAM dmg"
*note 3: Now if you took out sam and added another similar DD then you could add even more dmg

This is my thinking anyways. I know its not super accurate so dont flame me for that. It's just an example. I think my logic on this is pretty sound but if im off somewhere let me know.lol which im sure you wouldve done without me having to tell you.

@Ziero - I reread what i posted and i dont see how ppl keep getting that i said sekkanoki gets you tp fast from what i wrote. i said, quote, "they will be able to do just as many ws as SAM just as fast." i said nothing about getting tp faster b/c of it. yes i knoe sams will be getting tp a bit faster since they can 5hit but all other DD's can easily 6hit and then bust out a ws.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

\(ToT)/

SE loves me ... they really really luvz meez!!!!

Win... win... WIN!!!!!!

... can't come up with anything coherent...

Was waiting for this. Congrats Neverslip, your ruffles of doom just got that much more awesome.

[Murphie]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

updates for DNC seemed like they were christmas presents given by really rich parents if you ask me.

That's sort of missing the analogy. This time DNC and other jobs got something. Why? Because they needed it more. RDM doesn't need much of anything right now, so they didn't get as much. This is a good thing for everyone.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

RDM needs Refresh II and Faster Cast.

Simple.

Screw Refresh II, just gimme more Fast Cast. I can't get enough of that stuff.

[Murphie]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Oh, just go ahead and give me permanent Chainspell as a job trait. It won't unbalance anything, I swear!

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

RDM needs Refresh II and Faster Cast.

Simple.

Hi there.

Caster's Roll (COR Lv.79)
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect for party members within area of effect.

[Raydeus]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

More than anything I'm just curious about Fast Cast IV (and up) and En-spell/Phalanx calculations at higher skill levels (300+). Also weapons/gear available to us from lvl 76 and up.

But aside from that:

Regen II : Win (One less on my wish list)
Protect V (and thus Shell V) : Very good.
Baramnesia : /shrug

For the following updates I'm hoping for Refresh II, Reraise/Raise II and maybe another Enspell/Phalanx tier if for some reason dmg calculations didn't improve for higher Enhancing skill.

Other than that all that's left on my list are things like Enlight/Endark, Barlight/Bardark, Light/Dark based spikes etc. etc. but it's just wait and see right now.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

AFTER UPDATE *using a typical merit party set w/ sam/nin 2 DD/sam*
SAM WS gekko 900 dmg + WS (whatever it is for darkness, i forgot) 900 dmg + darkness 1800 dmg = 3600 DMG
WAR + sekkanoki + WS Kin's Justice 1300 dmg + DRG WS Dragonsbane 1300 dmg +WAR WS King's Justice 1300 dmg + SC darkness 1500 dmg = 4100 DMG
SAM LOOSES!!!
*note 1: i know the ws listed dont produce sc, theyre just placeholders cuz i dont know which do"
*note 2: DRG still has sekkanoki and couldve have used to do do 4 ws + sc, or 2 2ws+sc. either way still out does SAM dmg"
*note 3: Now if you took out sam and added another similar DD then you could add even more dmg

This is my thinking anyways. I know its not super accurate so dont flame me for that. It's just an example. I think my logic on this is pretty sound but if im off somewhere let me know.lol which im sure you wouldve done without me having to tell you.

@Ziero - I reread what i posted and i dont see how ppl keep getting that i said sekkanoki gets you tp fast from what i wrote. i said, quote, "they will be able to do just as many ws as SAM just as fast." i said nothing about getting tp faster b/c of it. yes i knoe sams will be getting tp a bit faster since they can 5hit but all other DD's can easily 6hit and then bust out a ws.

Naw that's exactly why your gonna get flamed. 90%+ accurate or bust! Though its unfair to say other jobs cant skillchain with themselves aside from war. I only picked them because their best spam move can SC with itself. Plus your example is 2 jobs working with each other to deal more damage then the one job on its own. and finally that whole thing is wrong. The final damage from the 2 jobs working together will be much higher since skillchains get stronger with more on the stack. WAY stronger.

[Laynton]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Oh, just go ahead and give me permanent Chainspell as a job trait. It won't unbalance anything, I swear

Of course it wont! why dont we have it? -.-

Do you really hate rdm or something? Its not like we RDM are asking for god-like powers. just wouldve liked to be included in the update a bit more. or at least told that more will come in later updates or hinted at it. We havent had a FC trait upgrade since 60 something (if i remember right) since we dont have one at 75.

Hi there.

Following your logic melee dont need haste gear cuz mages give them haste alrdy.

For the following updates I'm hoping for Refresh II, Reraise/Raise II and maybe another Enspell/Phalanx tier if for some reason dmg calculations didn't improve for higher Enhancing skill.

Other than that all that's left on my list are things like Enlight/Endark, Barlight/Bardark, Light/Dark based spikes etc. etc. but it's just wait and see right now.

Im with ya on these! would be sexy.

[Balfree]

Re: Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

Hi there.

Y helo.

That is not RDM, that is COR.

RDM Fast Cast next tier, can haz?