Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Part of me thinks the reason is because of that whole thing about how sub jobs should technically be working at half-effectiveness, similar to why a /BRD using Advancing March is only like 2.5% Haste.

Of course, just get a bunch of WHM's, RDM's to sub SCH and you've got a whole bunch of Stoneskins at 2x Enhancing anyway. So not like you couldn't chain blanket yourself from a bunch of damage, especially with a RDM Chainspelling.

In a way, technically, a bunch of RDM's could semi-blink tank for a party.... sorta. I remember this tactic being used from /SMN to summon Garuda on PLD/WAR's back in the day on Fafnir/Nidhogg, etc. etc.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

And Convert was specificalliy not mentioned along with these other level 40 JAs, so that means it really will be full strength?

Anybody who ever thought otherwise was merely deluding themselves right from the start.

Pink mages need the humiliating. I wait for the September update wherein the new era of Red Mages shall surely begin - the era of those of us who don't play the job simply because it is popular and gets easy invites. The rest of us.

And it is for the rest of us that S-E shall clearly redefine the role that Red Mages shall play. If I may quote you on this matter:

Less QQ more pew-pew.

[MrMageo]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Did Accession & Manifestation really need that level of nerfing though?

It is hardly a nerf. In fact I will guarantee right now it will not be an issue at all. For the things a /SCH will likely ga, such as haste, we already spend more than 45 seconds (the aprox trip value on recast) buffing a party with haste. We all ready spend that much time cycling individual -na's (hello cursna-ga/erase-ga for events). Even with triple recast it is break even or faster still. Hell even if they tripled the MP cost it would still be worth it to use for the spells we will likely use it for. Graviga, Bindga, Sleepga II. It will be a very very welcome and powerful tool.

You can't just adjust jobs and make that happen, you have to change the content, too.

When was the last time the update garrison to match wit current level mechanics? When was the last time they updated mission content to match current game mechanics. Simple fact is old content is old. Many of us have been grinding the same content for 6-7 years. Hell sky is nearly 8 years old, Sea nearly 7, Dyna and Limbus right up there with them. Hell even ToAU content is now laughably easy and its only 4 years old.

Updating old content is redundant and a waste of resources. No one cares if the new lvl 105 Fafnir is a challenge regardless of bumping up levels, you going to make a whole new set of drops for the 50 something current endgame HNM's?

Thus taking away from the gear sets at current level caps fr future adventurers to miss out on.

Its a novel idea but it is not feasible, hell SE can't even be bothered to release full expansions anymore, and like these new novella types. That there shows you their dedication to the advancement of content.

Content being old and FFXIV have little to do with keeping FFXI a sound experience.

Yes yes it does, it has everything to do with it. People won come back to playing the same shit they used to play at a different level. Old content is old content and unless they wow us with new content (not holding my breath since we have seen their dedication post ToAU). Why waste resources on a game that has been clinging to life when you have a new MMO right around the corner that most of the people in your current MMO are going to jump on board with the moment it is released.

FF14 and Old content being old are the exact reasons why. The level cap to 99 and rehashed current content with a different color scheme is the last dance, and if you can't see that SE has moved on then I don't know what game you have been playing since WoTG was released.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

In a sense, I hope that one thing that changes with the update, is that BLM can start getting invited to XP parties again and we can start magic bursting again. :/ miss that so much....

I really hate duo-ing on Gigas pets -_- and BLM burns are slow to dead on finding on Gilgamesh, though, they usually deal out 10k/hr.

And I'm SICK of LV37 East Ronfaure S......... sick sick sick sick /hurl

[Lmnop]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

But if someone can solo Zippanaca and other demis, how will anyone work for sky gear and abjurations.

Oh, don't worry I got this one...

BECAUSE IT'S RETARDED

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Oh, don't worry I got this one...

BECAUSE IT'S RETARDED

The whole design of sky is bad and always has been. Raising the cap and not changing how it functions is going from bad to worse, though. Even lowering the ??? repop times isn't any good if you have some dumb RDM trying to solo Genbu for an hour or two.

With the emphasis shifting to small groups, that means things like Limbus are going to get more exclusive because everyone will want to low-man them if SE elects to keep the content relevant. And if they obsolete such content - then there's no point in doing any of the missions SE wanted you to get caught up on by removing CoP caps.

So I think SE will try to keep them relevant, which presents a lot of problems on its own.

[MrMageo]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

SE doesn't care what you consider relevant or fair. They didn't care 5 years ago when people complained of RDM's soloing things for a long time they wont care now when most jobs either/rdm or /dnc will solo for a long time. Instead what SE did was instead of changing the old stuff (read the list of 20 or so fairly easily solo'd profiable nm's RDMs can solo) to be non solo friendly. They just made new content harder to solo. They made things resist bind, gravity.

Now they have made new nm's that are resistant to just about every enfeeble out there a RDM can toss. So RDM's straight tanking or enspell killing would *die* off. Mobs resist para and slow and suddenly even with fast cast RDM's are having trouble getting shadows out ... but Guess what, RDM's are still soloing new stuff, because the people who want to work around it in trial and error.

I highly doubtl:

people will concern themselves with current things outside some key items.

You have to remember that people do current events because the current events drop current gear that is currently the best. In 24 levels who is to say anything we spent 8 years obtaining will be worth a damn. If you seriously think that people will want to wait till 80 to get an item from an NM that is currently level 85, but refurbiushed to 95 to be a challenge, that drop armor for level 72 at a mediocre drop rate, that will most likely be replaced at 85 you are off your rocker, and should put down your meds.

Old content is old. Trying to adjust it is a waste of time. I am not fighting byakko at level 95 to get kitty pants that are good for 75 cap, unless they are the best, and if they are the best than SE has bigger problems than keeping the NM systems we currently use relevant.

Half the shit from he level 50 cap is not relevant so why should the stuff from 75 be any different at 99. Hell on Lakshmi Roc sits up unclaimed pretty well all day, because he is not relevant, do people bitch because that wicked stuff he dropped isnt useful anymore. No they go camp relevant "newer" content.

Old content is old, the game is in its last days, and anyone who frets over the same content we have been in for 7 years being relevant or not needs to stop playing the game and move on. Hell half the shit in this game hasn't been relevant for years, highly doubt we going to see a wasted effort adjusting the current mechanics to suit your vision of relevant.

You know what I think is relevant.

The fact that SE is bothering to update this game at all in anyway......all be it very lame like, as has been the case since WoTG.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

You have to remember that people do current events because the current events drop current gear that is currently the best. In 24 levels who is to say anything we spent 8 years obtaining will be worth a damn. If you seriously think that people will want to wait till 80 to get an item from an NM that is currently level 85, but refurbiushed to 95 to be a challenge, that drop armor for level 72 at a mediocre drop rate, that will most likely be replaced at 85 you are off your rocker, and should put down your meds.

Oh, just put your foot in your mouth and be done with it.

How the hell did you get that out of anything I had said in this topic? I said SE being SE, they probably intend to keep the gear relevant, but they also want the old content to become intermediate, low-man content. The grand plan is that since the population is shrinking, they don't want to require players to need so many people to do things.

At no point did I suggest raising the levels of mobs in old content, that would be counter-productive to the current plan SE has. At the same time, however, this means there will be a flood of smaller groups to do this content, thus raising competition for intermediate content. What if you want to go do Limbus, but the zones are always claimed.

Some jobs can low-man Limbus zones with three people now and clear them, what's going to happen when players are more powerful? You think they're going to bring more people? I think not.

And your grand solution is "tough luck?"

Oh wait, no, your argument is "Old content is old." That works fine for Blizzard, but somehow I don't think SE means to obliterate the old content, just alter how many people are required for it.

But when you bust up that big HNMLS, which could be a long term consequence, you're going to have these smaller splinter groups. More groups means more competition

And all those people that cried and cried about how they couldn't get CoPs done because people were mean, selfish and didn't want to go back and help them? They're going to get left behind again.

If SE lowers respawn on demis, lowers respawn on Sky ??? spawnpoints, along with other pop NMs; If they instanced Dynamis and Limbus or at least created a reservation system a la Einherjar - much of the potential issues that could arise could also be averted.

I don't think that has to be in-place for this particular update, but if they don't have it done by the time the cap is raised to 99, its not going to be pretty.

[Malacite]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

At no point did I suggest raising the levels of mobs in old content, that would be counter-productive to the current plan SE has.

So many people I run into on Bismark stupidly have it in their head that this is exactly what SE will do, or otherwise impose arbitrary level caps of 75 on current end game content. They claim that it would be "stupid" to let us plow through current endgame as 99's...

Yeah ok then.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

But if someone can solo Zippanaca and other demis, how will anyone work for sky gear and abjurations.

Not sure what you're trying to convey, but people already solo (and duo) Zipacna and Despot regularly. Not sure how frequently people solo Ullikummi, but I've see it done by a RDM/NIN while I was farming Diorite.

Steam Cleaner looks like it can be duo'ed.

* * *

People who want the stuff badly enough, will find a way to get the abjurations. Why worry about them?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

Not sure what you're trying to convey, but people already solo (and duo) Zipacna and Despot regularly. Not sure how frequently people solo Ullikummi, but I've see it done by a RDM/NIN while I was farming Diorite.

Steam Cleaner looks like it can be duo'ed.

* * *

People who want the stuff badly enough, will find a way to get the abjurations. Why worry about them?

As people get more powerful, more people will seek to do more things independently.

This is SE's intent and it sounds good on paper, but lots of things sound good on paper and fail in execution.

If SE wants people to do older content with more independence due to a decrease in population, raising the cap is a way to do it. However, if SE intends to keep the gear obtained relevant and desirable in the face of this change - and they've said nothing to the effect that they intend to obsolete that gear - then they're going to have to do away with some of the bottlenecking in that content that was meant to slow bigger groups down.

Groups are not going to decrease, they're going to increase. If a group of six and do what a group of 18 used to do, then they're not going to keep doing them in groups of 18. They're not going to get together and split up Limbus currency 18 ways if two people can duo a run and go 50/50.

Some already do, now more jobs will.

I don't really get how some of you think SE just woke up one day and started being Blizzard. Raising a level cap does not mean the abolishment of old content. I've see no evidence that SE is out to abolish old content, just make it more accessible from their perspective.

And I haven't forgotten how skewed that perspective is - why have other people started acting like they turned over a new leaf?

Its SE - radical change only comes when they feel truly threatened. And from what I've seen, the response shows them what they've changed is good enough, so it seems like they don't have to do much other in the minds of the playerbase besides raise the cap, make CoP stupid easy and add a few new endgame zones.

I really have little reason to come back or trust these changes unless they have a true expansion prepared to show at E3 next week that also accommodates these changes. Just reversioning La Theine, Meriphataud, and Konishat is not going to be good enough for me this time.

If I can't see an expansion, then I'll play the MMORPG they're really working on.

I like the FFXI and want to see what ideas they have for FFXIV, but I'm just tired of their attention being split between two projects. Hand FFXI over to another team, it may actually prove to be interesting and revitalize interest in it even more.

[MrMageo]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I wish my Garrison Chapeau was relevant at 75, or my Garisson boots, but they aren't, because SE at some point thought hey we should make new gear so the adventurers have new stuff to aim for. I am sure they are getting tired of fighting over the same stuff.

So now my garrison gear is useless, even after all the time i put into getting. My seers +1 gear is useless, all my once relevant gear is now useless on my jobs. Screw you SE. You better not mess this up, I want my elemental staves that ive been using for 24 levels already to remain relevant, I want my AF set that I have had for 5 years to remain relevant. Heck I even want my Aqua rings to remain relevant.

/sarcasm

[Armando]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I wish my Garrison Chapeau was relevant at 75, or my Garisson boots, but they aren't, because SE at some point thought hey we should make new gear so the adventurers have new stuff to aim for.

You twit, there's no reason for Lv.20 gear to be relevant at 75.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I feel the level cap increase could pan out in one of two ways.

Firstly, S-E could invalidate all existing 75 content by leaving the levels on those encounters unmodified. This will likely be a deathknell for event linkshells which run non-instanced zones. This approach relies heavily on S-E introducing sufficient new endgame content to keep the majority of the playerbase occupied.

Secondly, S-E could either impose level caps on existing endgame content or modify the levels of the encounters to present a challenge to the players in addition to introducing new endgame events.

I have issues believing either approach fully however. For the first scenario the major stumbling block is the development and implementation of enough new content to sate the playerbase's demand. S-E haven't provided anything of merit in recent times to support the belief they're still pumping significant resources into FFXI so the expectation of new content to replace Limbus, Einherjar, Salvage, Dynamis, Sea, Sky, Nyzul, ZNM, and Kings is ridiculously optimistic to say the least.

As to the second possibility, raising the level on existing endgame encounters will only wash if the gear tables are likewise adjusted to award improved gear. Again, I don't see S-E putting forth the effort required to do this although it would be the easiest way to keep the masses playing with the minimum investment of resources.

I guess there is a third option, one that really doesn't appeal in the slightest. They invalidate all existing content, introduce precious little endgame content, and rely on crushing experience point requirements and convoluted magian trials for gear - hi trials for 12 gear slots - in addition to weapons, to keep the players busy till December.

How optimistic is your belief in S-E?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Exceed Your Limits: Level Cap to Be Lifted! (06/11/2010)

I wish my Garrison Chapeau was relevant at 75, or my Garisson boots, but they aren't, because SE at some point thought hey we should make new gear so the adventurers have new stuff to aim for. I am sure they are getting tired of fighting over the same stuff.

So now my garrison gear is useless, even after all the time i put into getting. My seers +1 gear is useless, all my once relevant gear is now useless on my jobs. Screw you SE. You better not mess this up, I want my elemental staves that ive been using for 24 levels already to remain relevant, I want my AF set that I have had for 5 years to remain relevant. Heck I even want my Aqua rings to remain relevant.

/sarcasm

Let me explain it in terms even those that fail at sarcasm can understand.

You're a RDM

There are parts of your first set of AF that remained relevant to your job, so you may have HQed them in Limbus. There are parts of that set that relic does not replace, but compliments in function, so you use them together for optimal effect, just as you do with other pieces of gear that might not be AF or Relic.

As a RNG, I can say the same, but does that mean I got rid of everything I had at 55 when I became 75?

Not really.

I don't think SE spent 8 years coming up with this stuff just to go "Fuck it, let's do what Blizzard does." They spent a lot of time balancing one set of content and gear against another.