Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

[Neverslip]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

It seems you failed to grasp what I meant.

Before, CoP fights were fun and challenging, thus a joy to help with. Now they'll be stupidly simple and more of a chore for those already past them as they can be done by anyone with a sufficient level regardless of preparation, party set up, teamwork or anything else that actually made the fights challenging. Thus those who helped because they found the fights fun have no reason to really enjoy helping anymore.

And seriously, blacklist people because they won't help? Is that what you did before the change too? Because if that's how someone's gonna act, then they're not even worth helping.

This whole post can be turned on itself... I think you fail to grasp something as well.

And no I don't /blacklist people who won't help because they think they are too good to help out. It was merely a suggestion. I'd proly call them snobbish prix and keep the lines of communication open to call them on it forever-more. We obviously disagree and are not going to find common ground. Understood. I've stated all I need to state about this change. Further discussion, imHo, is obviously useless.

[MrMageo]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Making fights trivially easy is the worst way to improve the accessibility of something. That's just boring.

Not to sound like a broken record. But that is boring to you, I disagree with you. I think it is more boring shouting in WG fo help or asking friends and LS's. I also think playing MGS for 2 hours is boring if I wanted to play MGS i would plug it into my ps3 and play it.

The majority of people done, of those majority a minority help. I would love SE to do a by server listing of who needs CoP so you can see how hard it is to get a group in your time zone in your play time window. I have personally helped many people on promies but thats as far as I myself ever personally went. I would rather campaign for two hours than sneak past true sight mobs for two hours to get item A then trek back to give it to So and So.

So while you may find easy boring, I find lack of appeal more boring and simple fact is, most people hate doing CoP wit a passion, they loved it when it was done but they hated doing it and won't do it again. So yes if by lowering the event difficulty to next to 0 makes it boring to you, then its quite easy......You do not have to do it.

[Takelli]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

So while you may find easy boring, I find lack of appeal more boring and simple fact is, most people hate doing CoP wit a passion, they loved it when it was done but they hated doing it and won't do it again. So yes if by lowering the event difficulty to next to 0 makes it boring to you, then its quite easy......You do not have to do it.

Maybe he doesn't have to do parts of the CoP they uncapped, but there are others that would like to have fun while doing a mission. Having 0 chance of failing isn't fun, its boring as fuck.

[Solymir]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

There are plenty ways to keep some fun in it. Try soloing the promies at lvl 40, I bet that would be fun.

In the end I don't give a shit. We need more people in Dynamis/Limbus/Sea. Sure it would be nice if all the noobs got together and got shit done, but that is a whole lot easier to say than to actually happen.

I know! Let's put all the new players on a server by themselves, and then they'll be forced to work together and we can live on our worlds all hunky dory.

Oh, and for anyone who says "anyone not able to to do CoP under the old standard will be subpar players for said end game events" that's just bullshit. Bad players will be bad players no matter how many difficult battles they survive. Good players will still be good, and if they need some polishing, trust me if they join one of the shells I'm in they will get polished or kicked. Going through the fire that is (was) CoP is a nice badge of honor, but I think it's time to look to the future. Can we please move on? Please?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I'm gonna be grumpy if they end up trivializing the fight with the Wreaker. I still haven't settled my grudge with that bastard.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

"You feel that sting, boy, huh? That's pride F_CK!N' with you! You gotta fight through that sh!t!" ~ Marsellus (Pulp Fiction)

Seems to me the only thing that is taking a hit are people's egos. Which doesn't matter. In a game basically centered around helping others to advance, changing these fights in such a way that allows more people to actually want to help is a win-win for the community.

Whining over a diminished e'peen for 6 straight pages is exceptional though... I take my hat off to those who could, as I wouldn't have the fortitude for it.

Yeah, let's quote Tarantino films for wisdom.

This is not about ego, this is about DUMBING DOWN the strongest mission set in the game, making it as trivial and pointless as every other mission set in the game. Sea access and CoP completion were the only mission accomplishments left in this game that meant anything about you as a player.

SE should just hand out International Rank 10s to everyone just for subscribing while they're at it.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I don't get what the complaining about uncapping the zones is about?

Yes, the challenge of the fight increases the feeling of accomplishment when you win. No doubt about it. HOWEVER, how fun is it to sit in WG shouting for hours to find the right people willing to help to DO those fights? Nothing like spending hours shouting for a group and then run out of time to do the run/fight once they're gathered.

The fact is that a lot of people CAN'T access that content because of how much of a pain it is to find a pickup group to do it, or like in my case, finding a time when my whole static can hop on. When we CAN get on, we generally have time for ONE attempt. We win, awesome, now try to find time to do the next leg of the quest(s). We lose? Another week to redo whatever prereq stuff before we try and schedule another attempt.

So I count myself among those who are HAPPY about the uncapping of the fights so that I can finally see the rest of the story of CoP, get my ring, get Sea access, and be able to do all those events that will be opened up to me once I'm there. Thank you, SE.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Not to sound like a broken record. But that is boring to you, I disagree with you. I think it is more boring shouting in WG fo help or asking friends and LS's. I also think playing MGS for 2 hours is boring if I wanted to play MGS i would plug it into my ps3 and play it.

The majority of people done, of those majority a minority help. I would love SE to do a by server listing of who needs CoP so you can see how hard it is to get a group in your time zone in your play time window. I have personally helped many people on promies but thats as far as I myself ever personally went. I would rather campaign for two hours than sneak past true sight mobs for two hours to get item A then trek back to give it to So and So.

....I can't think of any single mission where you spend 2 hours trekking through true-aggro infested zones. Maybe Promy Vhazl if you take your time, but you can do that one floor by floor and continue where you left off. It takes all of 5, maybe 10 minutes to get through the Riverenes. It takes all of 20-30 minutes total (including the boss fight) to do the lvl 30 Promys. Aqueducts take all of 5-10 minutes to kill the bull and the rest can more or less be soloed at leisure in about 20 minutes if you get yourself a key/thf friend. In fact, iirc, the longest time you'll spend doing any mission would be the Gauntlet run on Tenzen's path (which has no true sight mobs or sneaking past things) and the missions in Sea itself...which people will still need help with.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that nobody is complaining about the uncapped zones. Which, btw, will still be full of true-aggro mobs, probably even higher level ones. It's the fights being uncapped that people have issue with. Which never require you to play MGS, at all. Maybe some checkers with Diabolos and some tag with the Mammets, but never MGS.

In the end I don't give a shit. We need more people in Dynamis/Limbus/Sea.

No we don't. Especially with the level cap being raised and all of these events getting easier to low man as a result.

[MrMageo]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

This is not about ego, this is about DUMBING DOWN the strongest mission set in the game, making it as trivial and pointless as every other mission set in the game. Sea access and CoP completion were the only mission accomplishments left in this game that meant anything about you as a player.

Still do not understand why you think your opinion on things is the gospel truth. I know many sea shells that will pull a player through now because they have an in demand job (BRD/COR/RDM/BLM). Does this mean this people are super tough awesome doods, because 5 other people dragged them through?

The only thing that matters in this game that relates to is how you play at those endgame areas, people don't care how you got there as long as when you arrive you know how to play your job. They do not care about how you took 6 people and killed diablos, or that you were smart enough to make sure everyone had anima for an easy fight. All they want is for you to know the fights you will be focusing on, and how to best approach them with your job. That is it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

HOWEVER, how fun is it to sit in WG shouting for hours to find the right people willing to help to DO those fights?

That's the problem right there - you think that's the way to organize for this.

Its not - shouting to assemble random pickup groups has been the garunteed path to failure in CoPs.

(1) You post an announcement on forums people will frequent - even if you hate those forums. Best recruiting spots are still Alla and KI, post on the server forums there. Know your audience - the people in Whitegate are mostly AFK, so go to the place where people look for such recruiting, which is not in-game.

(2) Be willing to retread. If you do a mission for someone that you don't need yourself - that says something about how important they are to your desire to move forward with missions. You send the message that your not there to use them or discard them. People enjoy feeling like a critical part of the team, doing this for them speaks that to them.

(3) Prepare, prepare, prepare. This is not stuff you just do on a whim. You need to have a plan - that's the biggest problem of all - most players don't have a plan, they just want to do the mission

(4) Be willing to be the leader. I hate being the leader, but that's because I know what makes a good leader and what makes a good leader can be stressful. But this is a game, you don't die for real and the stakes are virtual ones, so you have to keep a cool head. If the leader is confident and has the plan laid out for the group, the group will be confident going into and during the fight.

When we get to the BC, I'm ready to lay out the plan. If there's cutscenes to gather, I treat it like homework and assign a deadline for the group to get them done prior to the mission. I tell them what we're going to need and if and when we will need to farm.

And if there are any ways to cut a corner here and there, as leader, I've taken it on myself to ensure those cuts get made so things move smoothly.

Example - In Sacrarium, there's a door you need to open for cutscenes, but there's an NM to take down and formors you need to kill to open that door. I played Foobar and helped some other people farm keys so I could get behind that door and I left him there after I helped out that other group.

This way, when my group had to do the mission, we didn't have to concern ourselves about doing the NM or building up fomor hate for keys - we only had to concern ourselves with doing the ghost NM. I would log to Foobar to manage the door. That saved several hours of work for the group.


Networking,
Having a plan.
Using everything at your disposal.

That's how you get it done.

[MrMageo]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Networking,
Having a plan.
Using everything at your disposal.

That's how you get it done.

Or do it at 75 alone/lowman without having to rely on others to show up, be ready, be smart.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Or do it at 75 alone/lowman without having to rely on others to show up, be ready, be smart.

But then it's not an adventure.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Well Sacrarium is a terrible example anyway since it's not a BC fight. Though for all we know, they could end up making that NM you have to kill suddenly a 75+ monster, forcing you to still take a party with you.

Because as we're all aware, SE are dicks.

[Solymir]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

No we don't. Especially with the level cap being raised and all of these events getting easier to low man as a result.

Dynamis
I understand what you're saying, but as long as your linkshell has a point system and decent lotting rules you shouldn't have a problem. That's assuming you go on a regular basis and have built up points. More people = easier runs, and we can finally complete more zones. Tell me, when was the last time you completed a Beaucedine or Xarcabard and I mean all mobs excluding the Relic weapon NM's and their cronies? More mobs dead = more currency/armor drops.

Sea
If you have ever been in a Sea linkshell you know how much of a pain in the ass some of the NM's are to farm. This isn't like Sky where all you have to do is get lucky and be there when the NM is "up". It's more like every mob is like Steam Cleaner or Despot, but the pop rate is worse and you have to travel all over the friggin floors to get to the pop spots. Sea aka Time sink from hell. Now wouldn't it be nice to split into 3 groups to do that farming vs 1 or 2. That's the situation my shell is in because the recruitment pool on our server is so piss poor. It would be nice to have a full alliance at every Jailer of Love as well, maybe a few substitutes too. Maybe you were lucky/unlucky enough to be on a server that got merged so your end game pool of players is of a decent size. On Fenrir nothing has changed, a few people quit a few people get picked up.

Limbus
I honestly shouldn't complain about this one. I love Limbus, I always have. Going with the group I'm in now, almost all Social Linkshell people is great. It would be nice to get the chance to pop, and kill Ultima, but I'm not going to cry about it. We can take down Omega and that's good enough.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Yea, that's all well and good and all

....until you have parties of 6 regularly claiming Dyna and Limbus zones. I mean hell, people can do that now, once the cap is raised even more people will be low manning these events. Which was more to the point of my comments, as the level cap goes up, the need for more people goes down. A lot of mobs will lose their edge once players get 5/10/15+ levels on them. And once these mobs start acting more and more like the average Nyzul mob, the playerbase will need less and less people to complete these runs.

Also, fyi, I hate most endgame events. Especially the long grindy ones like Limbus and Dynamis.