Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

[Armando]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

just about everyone who talks about wanting more CoP missions done in-game talk about it in terms of getting access to Limbus, or grabbing the Raja's Ring, Swift Belt, Soboro Sukehiro, and/or AF+/ABC gears.

Yes, but then again no one would do missions if there weren't any incentive. That doesn't mean you can provide a sucky mission experience without people complaining about it.

[Solymir]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Yes, but then again no one would do missions if there weren't any incentive. That doesn't mean you can provide a sucky mission experience without people complaining about it.

Yup, don't have to look any further than the last three "stories". Most of those were rubbish with some bright moments.

ASA Spoiler

Mechastreisand vs Shantotto ftw

[MrMageo]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Have you been playing since the beggining of CoP? The fights where hard as hell, and fun as hell when they where capped. They where GREAT. It was a pain to get there at first, then they made it easy as hell if you stay on the edges. Now they are uncapping it, and making it easier to do the fights.... To me, thats not fun. I like a challenge. I think this game is going the way of WoW....

FTFY

Your definition of fun is not the same as my definition of fun, which isn't the same as so and so's definition of fun. Just because you enjoyed waiting for the perfect setup, and grinding through difficult tasks, doesn't mean this change wasn't, or isn't needed. CoP has been around for nearly a decade, and it is still the same annoying X+Y job only shit, even if it is nerfed.

Since you are done CoP why do you care? When was the last time you actively participated in CoP 1-fin on the same scale as you did it before. How many times have you been in WG when people have shouted for mission help to either see, or yourself say. CoP is easy, or you haven't done CoP noob.

The fact is, most people have done CoP. Most will not do any part of it again because of the irritiations of just doing it once. Meaning the few who are either newer or not as mission hungry as you were, still have not done it, and can't find help.

By removing the cap SE is basically saying, ok enough is enough. 7/10 of you have finished this, our design to allow nearly any level the chance to participate or help has stopped working. It is time for the last 3/10 people to be able to get through and get their Raja's ring.

But you can sit on your pedestal and hold your ring of the masses heads say "I got this when you had to be good at CoP neener neener neener"

But no one will give a shit, congrats you completed content before me.

As for this game going the way of WoW, obviously you didn't play it when the game stopped at 60, and was expanded to 70, and once again to 80. The same stuff happened as will happen to a lot of content now. The same as happened to content before in FFXI.

Its not like SE is saying here is a Sea token with 20 of these you can buy a torque, with 40 you can buy your choice of armor. It hasn't changed the real content, it is simply allowing those who started late, a chance to experience the content. Hell in 6 months nothing from RoZ/CoP/ToAU/WoTG could mean a damn thing, SE could go totaly broke, make all new craftable/drop gear that smokes anyting we have now.

TLDR

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean 100 others are in the same boat.

[Takelli]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Your definition of fun is not the same as my definition of fun, which isn't the same as so and so's definition of fun. Just because you enjoyed waiting for the perfect setup, and grinding through difficult tasks, doesn't mean this change wasn't, or isn't needed. CoP has been around for nearly a decade, and it is still the same annoying X+Y job only shit, even if it is nerfed.

Since you are done CoP why do you care? When was the last time you actively participated in CoP 1-fin on the same scale as you did it before. How many times have you been in WG when people have shouted for mission help to either see, or yourself say. CoP is easy, or you haven't done CoP noob.

You don't need the "perfect" set up to do it. There are many set ups you can do it with, eve one made up of random job combinations as long as you have the right items.

As for the "me not helping others part". What the fuck do you know? I have helped MANY people on my server get past CoP becaus eI LOVED the challenge of the fight. I've done it as Sam, Ninja, Rdm, Drk, and a few others. Its a fun fight to do, and its a challange. Because the fight is a challenge, its fun. But now that they ar removing the cap, people will just blow right through it with a lvl 99 soloing the fight easily. Wheres the fun in that?

[Elwynn]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Of the capped CoP areas, only one, maybe two maps are actually 'hard' to get. The level 30 promy maps can all be soloed, Sacrarium and Pso'Xja maps come from chests, riverene map is a quest with an easy fight, the 'ducts is simply clicking a ??? and the only 'hard' map to get is the Vhazl map.

For you, maybe. Mage? Yeah right. I'm not even getting through a memory container solo.

[hexx]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I gotta agree with the regular sentiment here. Them uncapping the zones was a great idea........as long as they left the BCNMs uncapped so that it still posed somewhat of a challenge. I agree that nowadays its pretty tough to get a decent group to pass these BCNMs, but it's not impossible either if you have the DEDICATION to get it done.

[Tipsy]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Not everyone has the time, or patience to spend 3-4 hours in Whitegate shouting for incompetent players who you have to rely on to complete a mission. Only to fail the mission, after wasting 3 hours of traveling and actually doing the mission. Then having to run around for 2-3 hours getting the cutscenes/pop items again to start the whole thing over.

It comes down to, if people aren't willing to help (in whom are experienced with the missions) it's near impossible to do (or is a huge timesink) , due to the lack of playerbase needing it done, and the majority of the playerbase who doesn't have it done are usually gimped to all Hell.

By the time I actually finish the mission, I've forgotten where the storyline left off. I like this update, SE seems to be appealing more and more to those who don't want to get married to this game.

[Vyuru]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Them uncapping the zones was a great idea........as long as they left the BCNMs uncapped so that it still posed somewhat of a challenge. I agree that nowadays its pretty tough to get a decent group to pass these BCNMs, but it's not impossible either if you have the DEDICATION to get it done.

Agreed.

Besides, it's not like the fights were low levelish either, so you really needed a lvl 75 job unless you wanted to do the missions as you leveled, which I don't think anyone does.

[Gyotsha]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Have you been playing since the beggining of CoP? The fights where hard as hell, and fun as hell when they where capped. They where GREAT. It was a pain to get there at first, then they made it easy as hell if you stay on the edges. Now they are uncapping it, and making it easier to do the fights....
To me, thats not fun. I like a challenge. I think this game is going the way of WoW....

Unfortunately, you, along with probably something like 97.3% of the population has already finished a good chunk of CoP or completed it. Very few of these players are willing to help out newer players with these challenging BCNMs. They've had their fun with the challenge, but don't care to go through it again. This leaves the newer players that haven't done CoP completely screwed. I'm sure you've seen people shouting in Whitegate for missions. Some people can shout for hours and still not get past 2/6.

See the logic behind it now? Smart move on SEs part.

Edit!: Should've refreshed the page before posting. Pretty much the same thing's been said since I had this thread open earlier today

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

CoP has been around for nearly a decade

CoP released in September 2004, hardly ten years by anyone's standard.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Not everyone has the time, or patience to spend 3-4 hours in Whitegate shouting for incompetent players who you have to rely on to complete a mission. Only to fail the mission, after wasting 3 hours of traveling and actually doing the mission. Then having to run around for 2-3 hours getting the cutscenes/pop items again to start the whole thing over.

It comes down to, if people aren't willing to help (in whom are experienced with the missions) it's near impossible to do (or is a huge timesink) , due to the lack of playerbase needing it done, and the majority of the playerbase who doesn't have it done are usually gimped to all Hell.

By the time I actually finish the mission, I've forgotten where the storyline left off. I like this update, SE seems to be appealing more and more to those who don't want to get married to this game.

If you don't "have the time" to invest, you "don't have the time" for the endgame events, either. Just because you don't have the time or the initiative to organize and participate in these missions doesn't mean dumbing them down is a good solution.

I had two characters I got Sea access and both times, I was the one that organized. And I hate being a leader, but sometimes you do what you have to do to get things done. I didn't wait for these missions to become stupid to get them done.

Also, recapping the story is what Bard NPCs, ffxiclopedia and YouTube are for. You know, that internet thing we're talking on right now.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

It used to be if you bought a computer game and sucked at it you had two choices, up your game and get better or go buy another game. Now the accepted standard is if you whine and bitch enough about it being hard or your RL only allows you to play 15 minutes a week but you still want to achieve the same as everyone else the gaming companies roll over and make the game simple enough for a mouthbreather to beat. The sense of entitlement I see more and more on forums, not just this one but others, WoW being a prime example, is killing the soul of gaming.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

That doesn't mean you can provide a sucky mission experience without people complaining about it.

Well, people DO complain right now about the sucky experience--about the experience of how hard it is to find enough people to help them, to be specific.

My advice, up until now, is to stop thinking about how to get help, and start thinking about how to help others catch up to where they are in Promathia or whichever mission line they are interested in. Despite what some posters have written, plenty of people haven't done those missions, yet--it's not hard to find people who are behind, and that's a big pool of people who can potentially help one to progress.

Know what most people do? They ignore my advice, and continue to whine about how hard it is to get through the missions.

CoP was great fun for me, but I don't think that's the case for the most of the people who haven't gotten through it. Heck, if it was that fun, they all be rushing to help others to catch up to them. (Even I stopped doing it; over 50 Promy runs and organizing three full rounds of CoP to the end were enough for me.)

With Lv.80 cap, most people can probably do this in group of four instead of six. Less hassle is a form of better experience, too, and I'd hear less whining about how someone desperately needs a Raja's Ring or whatnot.

It's a trade off, and I'm not particularly upset at it. Sorry to the people looking for challenging fights in the missions--you will just have to trio or duo them for that instead of using a full party if you want to spice things up.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Well, people DO complain right now about the sucky experience--about the experience of how hard it is to find enough people to help them, to be specific.

My advice, up until now, is to stop thinking about how to get help, and start thinking about how to help others catch up to where they are in Promathia or whichever mission line they are interested in. Despite what some posters have written, plenty of people haven't done those missions, yet--it's not hard to find people who are behind, and that's a big pool of people who can potentially help one to progress.

Know what most people do? They ignore my advice, and continue to whine about how hard it is to get through the missions.

And its their fault they've gotten nowhere because they're only interested in their own progress - another sign they are not fit for high level activities. If it behooves you to go back and pull a friend through Promys of Sacrarium, then you're not fit for the task and you won't build a team that goes all the way.

If you'e not willing to build up part of the team, why the hell would I want you on mine? Anytime I got the sense someone wasn't going to pull their weight or go back and help to make the static work - I kicked them. Going back and giving someone a hand creates momentum, it creates loyalty and shows you care. Selflessness is key.

All this change will do is foster more selfishness and that will not improve the climate of the game.

[Zoltar]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

So WHEN exactly is CoP uncapped?