Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

So now pretty much all of COP is off-limits to anyone under 75?

GG, SE.

They could do it so that that's not true, and they have done it before - Lufaise Meadows and Bibiki bay both have areas that are safe for lvl ~40 and areas for higher levels to exp.

I have no faith that they will do this again, but they have done it before.

Of course this could just be SE giving up on mid-level content. The other three expansions are all missions of 75 or gtfo. They may just be bringing CoP in to the same mindset, which it already was anyway.

[Neverslip]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Very cool the areas are opening up... leary of that whole:

level and distribution of enemies in certain Promathia areas will also be adjusted to pose a worthy challenge to players level 75 and beyond

Depending upon what SE means by that, our dreaming of sugar-plum fairies might meet an unhappy ending. I certainly hope this doesn't include the subligar mobs and swift belt NMs. I trust SE about as far as I can kick them. I want my promy/aquaducts maps too...

They could do it so that that's not true, and they have done it before - Lufaise Meadows and Bibiki bay both have areas that are safe for lvl ~40 and areas for higher levels to exp

I hope they can... I hope they do.

And for the record, I was not expecting them to totally dumb down the CoP battles. Wish I could get a signature on my Rajas (much like the Glory Crown's) that distinguishes my pre-nerfing accomplishment. On the positive side... people who have already done the fights usually are so scarred by them they don't wish to help another out. Maybe this nerfing will place helping out on a Airship fight akin to Nation Mission 5.2 (shadowlord).

Idk... I got mixed emotions about this.

[Elwynn]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I'm pretty much cool with anything they do to the CoP areas at this point, as long as it's no harder to get to the BCNM fights. (Though I suppose the loss of Aqueducts as a good BST solo camp will be kind of sad.)

Except for one thing.

The already difficult map quests... will they end up just being harder than before? Will we need to hit 99 before we can reasonably solo or duo them? Six of them currently require you to fight monsters a few or many levels above the cap to get an item, and another is a fight with some orcs that is already uncapped and not solo-friendly. In other words, map quests that are hard to do without a full party to help ONE PERSON get the map. Getting the map for everyone could take all day because you have to keep farming the key items and hunting down the repopped ???, and one is in a mess of True Sight crap, with double TS mobs at important choke points so that even a pet job won't have it easy.


Another question: although the "more accessible" wording I see sort of counter-indicates it, what if they raised mob levels in the BCNM fights too? Seriously, the only one that was real trouble was 6-4, and that was mostly due to the time limit. Even another 5 minutes would make so much difference.

- - -

And for the record, I was not expecting them to totally dumb down the CoP battles. Wish I could get a signature on my Rajas (much like the Glory Crown's) that distinguishes my pre-nerfing accomplishment. On the positive side... people who have already done the fights usually are so scarred by them they don't wish to help another out. Maybe this nerfing will place helping out on a Airship fight akin to Nation Mission 5.2 (shadowlord).

Magicite is what unlocks the airship. 5-2 unlocks Zilart and Dynamis.

- - -

And as for leveling off of "adjusted" mobs, I see a lot of people fighting those Wamoura in Halvung. Oh wait, they don't. And they probably won't after the cap is raised.

Fucking "True Sight". That crap started in CoP and it's just an enforcement of the "goddamn bats" trope. As if worrying about sneak/invis wearing wasn't already enough.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Well, I have to acknowledge Ziero was correct with his assumption. I'd still like to know which mobs they realistically expect people to exp on in those fucking awful zones.

Site Riverne #0A1 was actually a pretty nice camp, as were some of the spots in Pso'xja. Thankfully for BSTs, some of the best camps in Pso'xja were uncapped anyway. Guess they'll just be living there forever. Then again, some of those higher level diremites would make nice pets....

Calling the re-use of tired content, "A journey of rediscovery" is rich. I suppose it reads better than, "We'll continue taking your money but don't expect anything new for it."

Well, it is technically content few people use other than for missions. While it does ruin a few solo camps here and there, I think the real crime is uncapping the BCNMs. There's just no excuse for that.

I can just see it now, people will be forbidden to come along for CoPs until their character is 99. That spook story went on about needing to be 75 for Rank and RoZ for how many years?

[Neverslip]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Magicite is what unlocks the airship. 5-2 unlocks Zilart and Dynamis

Huh? I'm just saying it will put the two fights (others too but I could only think of the capped Airship CoP fight as a really infamous one) in a place where people will be okay with helping (which currenly is a chore) like the easy fight with the Shadowlord. Not saying they unlock whatever you're getting at... I actually don't follow your train there enough... um.. just saying: People who've done the fights currently are less likely to help out others unless they are made way easier than they were when those vets first went thru them.

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Magicite is what unlocks the airship. 5-2 unlocks Zilart and Dynamis.

One to be Feared - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

CoP Airship fight. He wasn't talking about the airship pass.

[Elwynn]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I just thought of something funny.

So the BCNM fights are going to be uncapped, right? Of course that would include the Diabolos fight. What level are those diremites below the vanishing tiles? Are they same for the capped fight and misison fight? (I suppose that could be found with sufficient dat mining.) What if a 99 can survive them?

That should be interesting. I wanna walk around and see what's down there.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Will we need to hit 99 before we can reasonably solo or duo them? Six of them currently require you to fight monsters a few or many levels above the cap to get an item, and another is a fight with some orcs that is already uncapped and not solo-friendly.

.........err, what?

Of the capped CoP areas, only one, maybe two maps are actually 'hard' to get. The level 30 promy maps can all be soloed, Sacrarium and Pso'Xja maps come from chests, riverene map is a quest with an easy fight, the 'ducts is simply clicking a ??? and the only 'hard' map to get is the Vhazl map. But that can be done while people quest the special items the bosses drop anyway as the NMs can drop up to three mesopheres per kill. None of the other CoP zones are capped, meaning they're not affected by this change. So of the 9 zones being uncapped, only two actually require you to have a party to get the maps.

I just thought of something funny.

So the BCNM fights are going to be uncapped, right? Of course that would include the Diabolos fight. What level are those diremites below the vanishing tiles? Are they same for the capped fight and misison fight? (I suppose that could be found with sufficient dat mining.) What if a 99 can survive them?

Seeing as there's already an uncapped Diabolos fight, chances are those Diremites will still rip apart any 75+ player that drops in there. Even if they ended up being EP, 6 mobs jumping you at once that you can't sleep will still put a dent in you. Though chances are, they'll prolly see a level buffing too, as they're supposed to be dangerous.

[Malacite]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Meh so what. They streamlined CoP for like, the handful of people who haven't done it yet/new players who can't gather enough people to get them done.

It's not like CoP was ever that hard with the exception of release before they made any changes - that shit was rough. I myself beat it the week before they updated it and removed the death penalty from the BC's which pissed me off to a degree but oh well. All this means is more people will have an easier time reaching Sea, and with the cap going up to 99 and all this new content coming out, who honestly gives a shit?

So stop QQ over it. I'm more curious about these "EXP incentives" SE is talking about. I've been saying for a while now if they want us to level with signet again, they're going to have to include an EXP bonus like Sanction has or increase the base EXP of IT mobs dramatically.

[Solymir]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

At first when I read that the battles would be uncapped I was upset, but then I started to really think about it. Who has not beaten CoP? Mostly new players who can't find help from other people, me included. I've helped take others through parts of CoP and frankly I'm not interested in attempting the airship under the old level restriction. Been there, done that, let's move on. I do plan on harassing every new player I know that finishes it without the cap though. You know who you are.

Now, these regurgitated zones. My biggest pet peeve is going to be travelling to them. I have run through Miseraux and Lufaise plenty. Could I please get some way of getting to the 75+ camps a little faster?

[Armando]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

who honestly gives a shit?

People who aren't entertained by boss fights that don't pose any sort of threat.

I will echo everyone else's sentiments:
Uncapped CoP dungeons: Fuck yeah major improvement. 8 out of 10 times SE's idea of a fun dungeon is making you move through a maze full of mobs you don't want to fight under any circumstance, without a map.
Uncapped CoP fights: Fuck no, this sucks.

[Neverslip]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

At first when I read that the battles would be uncapped I was upset, but then I started to really think about it. Who has not beaten CoP? Mostly new players who can't find help from other people, me included. I've helped take others through parts of CoP and frankly I'm not interested in attempting the airship under the old level restriction. Been there, done that, let's move on. I do plan on harassing every new player I know that finishes it without the cap though. You know who you are.

This is the positive side I was thinking about but was un-able to articulate it properly. I'll be more likely to help now too. Many will... and that's a good thing. It's only our egos that will be taking a hit... and not avery big one.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

who honestly gives a shit?

I do. Those capped CoP fights were fun. Most of which remained unchanged (other then the removal of exp loss when you died, which didn't make the fights any easier) since they were initially added. I can't count the number of times I had new people in my LS who barely had their first jobs at level 30 who we took through the promys. These fights were something new and different and exciting to players who up until that point have experienced nothing but simple boring Exp grinds and fetch quests. They were challenging without being broken, fights that required you to use strategy and teamwork, yet allowed for a flexible party make up. They were something that high level vet and that wet behind the ears newbie could do on equal grounds and still come out with the same experience.

As annoying as the quests and world hoping between fights was, the fights themselves were pretty damn enjoyable.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

any[/I] changes - that shit was rough.

This is peen gamer logic at its finest. "I beat it so its not hard (but won't mention my failure rate)." CoPs were only ever hard when people weren't organized and paying attention, but even then the margin of error was pretty big and you could die numerous times along the way.

The potential and rate of failure is how we gauge difficulty, not the fact that you eventually succeed.

And I specifically remember you crybitching when they changed the BATSHIT RETARDED LUCK-OF-THE-DRAW fights like the Snoll Tzar. You defended the piss-poor design of those fights as "challenges" when they were nothing but a bottleneck to slow players from progressing. SE got called on it, so they fixed it.

All this means is more people will have an easier time reaching Sea, and with the cap going up to 99 and all this new content coming out, who honestly gives a shit?

I give a shit and here's why:

When you complete missions in FFXI, its not a sign of your prowess as a player so much as it is a sign of dedication and competence. Do you really think people just look at your lack of Sea access as an inability to be on the same page in terms of zones? That's not how most LSes look at it, they look at it as you were willing to get this done, under your own power and that you won't come crying to them for help. That you are self-sufficient and prepared.

Seriously, if you can't organize yourself for a mission, you don't deserve to be in any endgame event, period. If you see missions as some kind of annoying chore, then just go merit brainlessly or craft or do something else far more casual. If you're not going to show up to events prepared, you're just wasting everyone's time. And time is critical.

If you couldn't be organized for CoPs, why would I want to bother with you and an endgame LS leader? Now CoPs will mean nothing because they'll become as stone-dumb as RoZ, ToA and WotG missions are.

They have essentially killed the one worthwhile litmus test we had to gauge dedication.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Now, these regurgitated zones. My biggest pet peeve is going to be travelling to them. I have run through Miseraux and Lufaise plenty. Could I please get some way of getting to the 75+ camps a little faster?

Maybe they will add those zones to the Nexus cape? Add Chocobo rental NPCs?

* * *

I also don't think nerfing the CoP missions at this point is a big deal; just about everyone who talks about wanting more CoP missions done in-game talk about it in terms of getting access to Limbus, or grabbing the Raja's Ring, Swift Belt, Soboro Sukehiro, and/or AF+/ABC gears.

Not one person in the past year has mentioned "the challenge of the fights" to me as far as the Promathia expansion is concerned--except the vets who have already completed the fights long ago, of course.