Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

For you, maybe. Mage? Yeah right. I'm not even getting through a memory container solo.

Bring an NPC buddy and sub /nin? Really, MRs are stupid simple nowadays.

Not everyone has the time, or patience to spend 3-4 hours in Whitegate shouting for incompetent players who you have to rely on to complete a mission. Only to fail the mission, after wasting 3 hours of traveling and actually doing the mission. Then having to run around for 2-3 hours getting the cutscenes/pop items again to start the whole thing over.

Err, with CoP Missions there is no run around to restart a mission. Usually you can do them over and over and over again right there while at the BC zone. In fact most people do a dry run expecting to lose so they don't waste their items while they get a feel for the fight. The only 'runaround' is between missions, during the globehopping fetch quests to get whatever magic item will win you the fight (which you can now get on AH more often then not). And the only mission where it actually takes you a long time to get through a zone which is being uncapped by this change is Promy Vhazl, which you could actually do in multiple steps since it saves the progress of which floor you've gotten too. Hell, half the zones aren't even big enough to spend 3 hours running around in em.

It seems most people can't even remember what goes on with CoP missions nowadays, either that or they're just outright embellishing the truth to make this change seem reasonable.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I'm not even going to start with how much of a slap in the face it is to do this so soon after releasing a limited-time item that gives you gil and required having the three Promys done to get.

UGH.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I'm not even going to start with how much of a slap in the face it is to do this so soon after releasing a limited-time item that gives you gil and required having the three Promys done to get.

UGH.

Are you seriously whining about missing out on an item which gives 800~80,000 gil over a three-week-or-so period? (I haven't even bothered to look up how to get it. lol.) Free gil is nice and all, but really, does the thing even give out 5k per use on average?

If you want 5k every three days that badly, try doing some FoV.

[Neverslip]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Free gil is nice and all, but really, does the thing even give out 5k per use on average?

1st - 5700
2nd - 3400
3rd - 7200

... I'm liking my moggie bag, tyvm. And I was really disappointed for others that it was not gonna be available to them. Gil in those number ranges might seem insignificant to older players but to a newer breed, that's a veritable goldmine.

Wonder why they can't make the fight-capping an option. Assault/MMM allows people to choose their own adventure. Why they don't do it that way to appeal to hardcores and the desperates I don't know. Maybe they are. As far as I can remember no one has thought that might be the case in this thread. Just tossing it out there.

[Varistor]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Have you been playing since the beggining of CoP? The fights where hard as hell, and fun as hell when they where capped. They where GREAT. It was a pain to get there at first, then they made it easy as hell if you stay on the edges. Now they are uncapping it, and making it easier to do the fights....
To me, thats not fun. I like a challenge. I think this game is going the way of WoW....

How many times have you gone back to do any of those fights? I have done Ouryu once since doing it the first time. So it was hard for us and easy for them, oh well. I am happy with the fact that there will be more people interested in doing them and some of my friends that don't have the missions or swift belt should be able to get em now, even if some the gear will be obsolete, at least it is still access to sea, limbus, sea blu spells etc and the sense of accomplishment even if it was easier, it is still one to check of the list of things to do. Holy run-on sentence Batman. sry.
I myself hated the mammets, mithra trackers the most.

[MrMageo]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

And its their fault they've gotten nowhere because they're only interested in their own progress - another sign they are not fit for high level activities. If it behooves you to go back and pull a friend through Promys of Sacrarium, then you're not fit for the task and you won't build a team that goes all the way.

Who is to say they wan't cop done for high level activities? and who are you to claim their capabilities based off storyline missions.

Ive helped countless people get through 5-2 missions, does that make those people unfit for dynamis, because they were unable to find 2-3 others that needed the same mission? Or how about the numerous people I have helped through RoZ does it make them less useful in Sky because they couldn't find bodies to work towards unlocking sky.

I hardly think the way you complete a task speaks for you capability at another. Ive been soloing on BLM, DNC, and SCH because I can't find parties, does this mean that I don't deserve to party because I went about leveling a different way then LFG forever?

CoP is no different. The difficulty of the fights has never been the fights themselves but organizing a competent group that doesn't kill each other by the end of it all. To say that the dedication of someone is defined by their inability to find other like minded individuals is pretty shameful. Coming from yourself BBQ i find this comment very displeasing, as much as we have had our gripes in the past I have always looked at you with respect through your willingness to help others. Now that helping people through long stagnant content has become much much easier, you sling elitist statements out like you are zeus on mount olympus, holier than thou because you did it when it was hard, so obviously that means you are better.

Please, grow up some.

[Malacite]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

This is peen gamer logic at its finest. "I beat it so its not hard (but won't mention my failure rate)." CoPs were only ever hard when people weren't organized and paying attention, but even then the margin of error was pretty big and you could die numerous times along the way.

Epeen my ass, CoP was not hard. It only punished people who couldn't work together and didn't prepare. I got it all done in two weeks, all via pick up parties. I don't see how a basic function of paying attention equates to elitism.


In fact the only fights I had issues with were Mea Boss and Promathia. I'll concede I was rather ticked off when I saw they were nerfing the Snoll fight but whatever; I whacked it good with BLM BLM RNG RNG PLD WAR lol. Was close though, one RNG wanted to bring Xbow for that fight but I told him Gun because we needed spike damage not utility/DoT. CoP certainly had some memorable fights and on the one hand it's a shame they're being nerfed, but the vast majority of the player base has beaten it. Why hold back the new players in a dieing game, that's just bad for business.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

The fact is, most people have done CoP. Most will not do any part of it again because of the irritiations of just doing it once.

I'm scared to be agreeing with Mageo for once but yeah, pretty much this. CoP was more of a nuisance than anything really. The level caps were just plain annoying, especially given how long it took SE to implement level synch. I know several people who outright refuse to step into Sacrarium ever again. God I had to do it TWICE because I forgot to click the damn ??? after defeating the prof. I mostly did it for the following;

Rajas Ring
Story
New Zilart Area (absolutely the Zilart)

It was a great experience for it's time, but I wouldn't force that BS on anyone. The level caps really did force certain job combinations on you, which would make or break most of the big fights and that quite honestly sucked. Removing the level cap (in addition to the caps going up) is sort of the other extreme, but what else can SE do? Unless they adjust the fights to reflect the increased player levels. But again, XI is 8 years old, and is like 90% endgame community now with most people having 1-2 75's (the census confirmed this) so basically, you're all crying over spilled milk. It's not like there's some huge, next generation that's going to come along and be missing out on an awesome experience.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Epeen my ass, CoP was not hard. It only punished people who couldn't work together and didn't prepare. I got it all done in two weeks

It's a little assinine saying CoP wasn't hard because you followed step-by-step idiot guides published by people who died countless times and endured much frustration doing so.

[Armando]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

CoP was not hard.

Congratulations. You just wasted several minutes of your life because no one will read past this sentence before jumping to the Quick Reply box to flame you.

[Solymir]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

I must have surrounded myself with idiots when I did CoP because I can count on 1 finger the number of battles we won on the first try. At the end of said battle two dd were left standing with less than 10% hp each.

Edit: I excluded Promies from this because I can't recall if we might have done one of them with just one try.

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

It's too bad they didn't flesh out CoP and make it it's own (single player) game. We'd all be sitting around here saying how awesome it was instead of trying to pin down how hard it was or wasn't.

Much of the difficulty in CoP came from the players more then the actual content, but the content was unforgiving in many respects. In a single player, offline game, they probably could have made it more difficult since the only idiot you'd ever have to deal with would be yourself and the only person who didn't perform perfectly is you.

[Ziero]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

When I did CoP, 90% of the time it was with LS mates, all of whom were (and still are) very skilled, knowledgeable players who always had everything they needed and then some when we did a fight. We certainly didn't win first time every fight, we had a few where we did though but generally we would have to do 3-4 runs at a boss to actually come out on top. And I can't count the times we came through a fight by the skin of our teeth. Of course we never had any perfect set-ups (Like Mal did apparently) but with a basic, averagely built party we beat all the missions (multiple times each) and had a lot of fun doing it.

The fights were the most enjoyable aspects of CoP to me. Not the long winded, over-explanatory story or world hopping fetch quests. But gathering up with a group of friends about to leap headfirst into battle against some big ugly monster(s) which we've never fought before (how many people have fought a Wyrm with their highest job being 50?) and struggled through challenging battles to come out on top. Even now when I do Promy bosses, I can go in there (even with a non-perfect 5 man party) go in, kick ass and still feel more excitement then I could doing things like grinding merits or endgear events. Especially if one, or more, of those people who went with me barely has a job over 30.

Which, imo, is where the real tragedy lies. CoP capped fight were something you could do as you leveled. Unlike the rest of the game's missions, these were things which you didn't need a high level job for, fights you couldn't have that endgame buddy of yours do for you without breaking a sweat. They were fights that more or less enforced the spirit of teamwork and wonderment a new player in this game should be experiencing with his friends. But that era is gone and now all those new, lowbie players have to look forward to is having a lvl 75+ buddy hold their hand through everything in the game until they get themselves to 75 and barely even know how to play.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

Epeen my ass, CoP was not hard.

Congratulations. You just wasted several minutes of your life because no one will read past this sentence before jumping to the Quick Reply box to flame respond to you.

On one of my accounts, I did the CoP missions before you could read how to do them right. They are hard. I also have 3 other accounts that I needed to get characters past CoP. A couple of them were done before the adjustments and a couple after. I remember how people ragged on and on about how they had done it before the changes and people just doing it now were pussies, etc etc. Those people are elitests. I found it easier to do them after but not so much easier that it was a cake walk. And do you know why that is? Because I can only control my character and I am the only one that can make myself read up and acquire the items needed. I can not make the other people do their jobs correctly, bring the needed items, have decent equips, and PAY ATTENTION. Sometimes you get lucky and find 5 other people that are as motivated as you and do everything right....but sometimes you don't.

I know with one of my characters, who still doesn't have Promies done, I tried over and over and over. I tried friends, lsmates, and pick up parties. I stopped counting after a while but I was past my 20th try. All it takes is one little mistake from one person and its Please Try Again Later.

And just for the record, I have helped a LOT of people do CoP missions and mostly people I'd never even met before. Its part of the way the game is made, you have to help others in order for the game to advance for everyone. The problem is, people just think "oh <insert name here> will help out so I don't have to". A lot of people just fluff it off and don't help out because they think someone else will so they don't have to. Or they don't have the time to do it, maybe some other time. Or they feel they've helped enough people (though its likely that they've only done it once or twice and probably because they had to, i.e. ls leader made them or someone guilted them into doing it).

[Takelli]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

When I did CoP, 90% of the time it was with LS mates, all of whom were (and still are) very skilled, knowledgeable players who always had everything they needed and then some when we did a fight. We certainly didn't win first time every fight, we had a few where we did though but generally we would have to do 3-4 runs at a boss to actually come out on top. And I can't count the times we came through a fight by the skin of our teeth. Of course we never had any perfect set-ups (Like Mal did apparently) but with a basic, averagely built party we beat all the missions (multiple times each) and had a lot of fun doing it.

The fights were the most enjoyable aspects of CoP to me. Not the long winded, over-explanatory story or world hopping fetch quests. But gathering up with a group of friends about to leap headfirst into battle against some big ugly monster(s) which we've never fought before (how many people have fought a Wyrm with their highest job being 50?) and struggled through challenging battles to come out on top. Even now when I do Promy bosses, I can go in there (even with a non-perfect 5 man party) go in, kick ass and still feel more excitement then I could doing things like grinding merits or endgear events. Especially if one, or more, of those people who went with me barely has a job over 30.

Which, imo, is where the real tragedy lies. CoP capped fight were something you could do as you leveled. Unlike the rest of the game's missions, these were things which you didn't need a high level job for, fights you couldn't have that endgame buddy of yours do for you without breaking a sweat. They were fights that more or less enforced the spirit of teamwork and wonderment a new player in this game should be experiencing with his friends. But that era is gone and now all those new, lowbie players have to look forward to is having a lvl 75+ buddy hold their hand through everything in the game until they get themselves to 75 and barely even know how to play.

I just had to quote this due to the truth that's in this. It is so true that there really is nothing to add to this.

[Gyotsha]

Re: Chains of Promathia Areas Unfettered! (05/24/2010)

There's an easy solution to this that every player has access to. Level sync.

If you don't like the fact that they took the level restriction away, make your own.