Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Fun fact: THE VERY PROSPECT OF HAVING TO FIND LOTS OF PEOPLE AND WORK TOGETHER MAKES ME HOWL IN PAIN.

CRAAAAWWWWLING IIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIIIIN

/srsly

[Durahansolo]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

CRAAAAWWWWLING IIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIIIIN

YM you just made my day.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Anyway, so how is the synergy thing turning out? Are any of the mods even useful? I saw somewhere in the intro that you can get a -2 to ability delay reduction on Eagle Eye Shot. That doesn't scream stellar to me.

Are there long lines to use the furnaces and has the assjackery begun or is it just no big deal or fun or what?

My internet has been down for a week and I'm going thru online withdrawl...... u_u I will never move to the country again.

[Karinya]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

I can get behind bbq's entire post.

Which one? Because the 10:10 and 1:29 posts in combination are pretty funny, but I don't think it was intended.

There's no "guild structure" that will stop people from being assholes. (Evidence: every other MMORPG that has guild structure, in which people use the structure to be even BIGGER assholes.) And there *definitely* isn't one that will stop them from being idiots, developing a job (or the equivalent) imbalance, asking people with scarce jobs to come as those jobs all the time because they don't have enough of them, pigeonholing jobs that are capable of more range, declaring flavors of the month (especially in DPS roles), sticking to years-old strategies that have no room for/can't effectively use later expansion jobs, or any number of other dumb or annoying player behaviors.

Some *events* can be structured to limit player assholishness. For example, Assault, where everyone in the party gets the same number of assault points, guaranteed (except for the small leader bonus). There are no drops to whine about who got what and whether your job should get priority for it. You get your points, you buy what you want, end of story.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if all endgame events worked that way, rather than having direct drops of gear (or gear proxies like Omega/Ultima parts) that someone has to decide how to "fairly" allocate. Einherjar mostly does, and most shells that I'm aware of divide Limbus coins as evenly as possible. (In both cases you can still be assholes over boss drops, though.)

But as long as there is content with actual drops that one person can only get if other people don't get it, people will have to figure out how to divide it up, and some of them will be jerks or self-serving whiners or even dishonest about it. There's no structure you can impose on guilds that would change that.

Human nature can't be patched by the developers.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Army: It is possible to f--- with the synther if you're partied with them by deliberately running them out of Fewell (or even accidentally; I screwed up my first group synth after some poorly thought-out instructions from the synther on my role, by spamming the pressure and safety levers fast enough to run the dark fewell supply completely dry). This is definitely something you don't want to do with a known asshole. That said, the obvious ways in which people assumed this would be used for griefing are obviously not possible as the system's designed. It's also pretty obvious that you can do this solo, if you 1) have the requisite craft levels, 2) aren't trying to synth something well over your synergy skill level, and 3) your fewell reserve holds out (Dark Fewell being the key offender here, and Light Fewell the probable second). Grouping up and having everyone participate is mostly useful in that it lets you pull off difficult synths in less time; that said, Sher (who Kam and I have been helping synergize) thinks that having the folks who are helping you be in voice chat is probably vital to getting good results out of a group effort, just for being able to shout commands while in the middle of operating the furnace yourself. We were in a group of three but I'd put the ideal party size at 4 myself (though the more you split up duties, the slower the skillups will be; for maximum fairness you should probably rotate those roles you can, as some operations raise skill better than others).

We did some testing on the effects of skill, but we don't yet have anything conclusive on the impact of crafting skills; I was able to attempt to solo-synergize Yagudo Drink at a Synergy skill of 1 and a Cooking skill of 0, and we did not see any substantive difference in the admittedly-abortive attempts both with and without having party members with the supposedly-requisite craft skill levels. We did observe that Synergy skill dramatically impacts the rate at which impurities increase; this is on a per-user basis, so whomever in your group has the highest Synergy skill should be in charge of the Feed Fewell option. Pressure did not seem to be affected by any known variables; it typically increased by a value close to 20 for the first couple feedings but rapidly dropped to about 15-16 per feeding.

Also, wrt the synthable Fewell, the main limiting factor there is going to be availability of colored rocks; most of these are obtained only rarely through chocobo digging, mining, gardening, and from goldsmithing guild vendors; Sher's noted the guild in Mhaura tends to be bought out in a rush at 8:00 sharp each game day, and when I checked Bastok's guild Blue Rocks were sold out, and I only bought 4 Black Rocks before they were bought out (some colors fared better and looked like not as many had been bought). As small as Midgardsormr is I imagine the availability problem's much worse elsewhere.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Some *events* can be structured to limit player assholishness. For example, Assault, where everyone in the party gets the same number of assault points, guaranteed (except for the small leader bonus). There are no drops to whine about who got what and whether your job should get priority for it. You get your points, you buy what you want, end of story.

Unless you should happen to uncover a rare appraisal, though that technically is handled after the assault run.

[hexx]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

See, thats what I dont get about endgame shells being unfair. I inadvertantly got put in charge of my limbus shell (why I really dont know) even though i've only been doing limbus since June and to date people have yet to feel jipped in any way. The point system setup is pretty straight forward and fair IMO. 5 points for attending, 1 bonus point for being on time with LS equipped. You get your coins at the end of the run, any leftover coins (due to odd number or w/e) get tossed into the bank which we tap into to even out those odd ABC totals. During boss runs people bid (based on the points they have accumulated) for Omega or Ultima drops and the highest lotter wins (lots are sent via tell to designated people which keeps bids secret).

back on topic: Yeah, even with all the Synergy furnaces, on Quetz they've all been occupied as of late and its hard to come accross said fewell as well. Think SE might have to find a way to make the stuff a little more readily available.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Different people prefer different ways of distributing loot. In one of my Dyna shells, it's a pure point-based system (accumulate points, can lot on any gear for a job 65+, highest bid wins). A couple of my other dyna shells, every participant chooses a #1 and #2 job before entry; when relic drops, each #1 job is given the opportunity to lot. If no #1s are left, then it goes to #2. After that, it's pretty much freelot, with need before greed mentality. I know people who prefer one over the other in both cases.

I can see the merit of both methods -- the pure point based system generates bias toward those who are active and attend every run, the second method allows all, even first-timers, equal access to the gear.

Also, Fewell isn't scarce. Last I checked, crystals were aplenty. Even if they were, take a low level job and go after mob families that drop that crystal (with signet/sanction/sigil where necessary). Or, take a high level job and go after elementals. As for them being occupied, all you need is enough times to get to level 5, and then get your own.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Also, Fewell isn't scarce. Last I checked, crystals were aplenty. Even if they were, take a low level job and go after mob families that drop that crystal (with signet/sanction/sigil where necessary). Or, take a high level job and go after elementals. As for them being occupied, all you need is enough times to get to level 5, and then get your own.

It's not a question of scarcity per se, since you can always top off your fewell at the NPC for 100 gil per fewell unit. It's a question of cost-effectiveness of each option. It takes over 8 stacks of a given crystal to top off that particular type of fewell; you can get the same effect from 2 orbs of fewell (NQ yield is 3). So especially when a given crystal is expensive it's going to be a lot more cost-effective to use the orbs, unless you can't reasonably obtain the colored rocks that go into it. I anticipate having a lot of trouble finding black rocks in the coming days.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

back on topic: Yeah, even with all the Synergy furnaces, on Quetz they've all been occupied as of late and its hard to come accross said fewell as well. Think SE might have to find a way to make the stuff a little more readily available.

You can trade crystals directly or have an alchemist synth it. Fewel is much cheaper to synth than paying the NPC for a refill.

1 Fewel (synthed) = 50 units.

[Neverslip]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

One thing I like about this Fewell and Synergy system... now I'm selling more crystal stacks for more and more... 2k for water.. Earth 1k+ again... 1k and climbing for wind??? Gil is gil when you're dirt poor with no time to really invest in the game at the moment.

[Ketaru]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

... besides keeping the 3rd place on the winner's podium warm?

Isn't that the Beastmen?

Regarding the Assault system, I'm a little disappointed there has been such a shift to Nyzul that people hardly do the original Assaults anymore for reasons other than getting Salvage points. I always liked its game enforced point reward system.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

now I'm selling more crystal stacks for more and more... 2k for water.. Earth 1k+ again...

Yuck... I figured that was probably why there was a combined total of 27 earth crystal stacks between all 4 AH's yesterday... (Leviathan Y U SETAL KRAKEN KLUB MONY? Y FRIEN? )I guess I'll have to go farm me some elementals now. Last time I remember specifically farmning elementals was when I was farming Dark and Ice for cooking...Man that was a long time ago.

[Neverslip]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

... ooooooooo...

And Hades has that Kupo Super Power for skilling up crafting this time... guess I oughta get on a low lvl job and start farming to fill up my crystal mule's AH consistently.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Version Update Complete! (12/07/2009)

Sher noted the Water Crystal prices trying to go up again. It's kind of sad how little attention people pay to how these numbers add up. 2k for a water crystal stack going toward replenishing fewell represents about 167 gil per unit fewell. As noted the NPC only charges 100 gil per unit fewell. There's no reason for someone looking to replenish fewell to pay more than 1.2k for a crystal stack.