Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Well, the main reason I won't say that's correct is that it is not correct. Summon -> BP -> dismiss is not, in fact, the only common tactic that relies on both a spell and a JA

And yet when I say the summon -> BP -> Release process is that job's current methodology of accessing their only class abilities (and, as such, is the only routine blocked by either status effect), all 3 of you talk about other details.

Take two. Action!

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Well, the main reason I won't say that's correct is that it is not correct. Summon -> BP -> dismiss is not, in fact, the only common tactic that relies on both a spell and a JA and is therefore blocked by either Silence or Amnesia. Accession buffs, SA/SATA physical blue magic, BLU self-skillchaining with CA and possibly MBing with BA, and Pianissimo songs also do so.

Yip. Nice tactics you have listed. But in the case of SMN (and in no other), it's a requirement. Not that it matters -- the Blessings or Favors or whatever they're called will make this moot.

You will probably reply that those other jobs aren't as reliant on those particular ways of using their spells/abilities as SMN is on BPs, which is sort of correct (although arguable for SCH), but misses the point because summon -> BP -> dismiss isn't the only way to BP, and in practice BPs are only part of a SMN's role in a party anyway.

Tactics, including positioning, are under the player's control and different tactics work better against different mobs. Imps are not a kind of funny-looking crab, and if you fight them thinking they are, then yes, they will royally fuck you.

Summon before the imp arrives at the party. Use enhancing BP right as the puller returns (if it's something they need to get in on). Use attack BP before the imp gets TP. Leave the avatar out so Silence can't stop you from summoning it for your next BP. (The update even makes this cheaper and provides your whole party with a buff at the same time.) Or just dismiss because you're not going to need another BP until the next fight.

And stay the hell out of range, didn't you learn this on Anticans or even mandies, goddammit. A job that has the luxury of fighting from long range has no business telling tanks, SCHs and BLUs that range is irrelevant and they just can't be bothered to try to avoid AoE (or that they're so horribly hosed by the possibility that some small fraction of the time they might fail to avoid it).

Imps are squishy but have nasty abilities. That's what they are. Fight accordingly.

Then you can follow it with explaining all you want about how irrelevant that detail is.

k.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

You know, I'm glad this is SMN's big hang up.

I could list a vast number of issues with BST that still won't be fixed after this update. I could show you how BST has been constantly given the short-end at the expense of every other job in the game, in all areas of the game, including endgame.

And we'd just be told "at least you cans solo," as though this is supposed to make up for the fact our solo camps have been wrecked once and now have to be shared with every other job in the game . So you can take your "at least you can solo" and shove it somewhere not-so-sunny.

"At least you have jug pets," yeah, they're nice for EXP parties and some situations, but it shouldn't be a fallback to poor zone design. Sea, WotG Northlands - I could really go on at length about the zones that are totally unviable for me to use charm in.

What other job in the game can have part of its job made totally useless by a zone's design? Only BST can say that.

Then there are mobs that fit family classifications for things we can usually charm, but select ones will not be charmable. That's always fun.

A Gnat is vermin, it could have been charmable and given the power they gave Ladybugs and Lou Caroths, its not a stretch. But for whatever arbitrary reason they're not charmable. I can understand Peistes - they have petrify and no other job does so why not restrict my access to it?

But there are some plain bizarre choices made when it comes to what is not charmable.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Sea, WotG Northlands

Just wanna stop you right there if I might to say;

WHAT THE FUCK WAS SE THINKING?! Never mind BST, that zone is nothing more than a gigantic mine field for anyone stupid enough to tread upon it. God and I used to think the Grand Palace was bad for aggro, Jesus Christ...

/rant off (and yeah SE has been screwing BST in the ass for so long it can't sit down anymore without feeling an intense burning sensation)


Also, side suggestion for PLD: Would it kill SE to make Sentinel last 3 minutes and adjust the damage reduction buff accordingly? Maybe start it at around 70~80% and have it decay by 10% for each minute that passes?

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Would it kill SE to make Sentinel last 3 minutes and adjust the damage reduction buff accordingly?

Paladin has been broken enough already. S-E just updated Ninja last update just so they could catch up.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

and 3-min sentinel (or at the very least changing PLD's def-up traits to damage reduction) would solidify the job as the tank, utsusemi be damned. Would also lend itself towards WAR to /PLD for the damage mitigation @60+ while still bringing the pain.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Paladin has been broken enough already. S-E just updated Ninja last update just so they could catch up.

PLD has largely gotten nothing but indirect buffs, things that benefitted everyone in the game or came from the addition of newer jobs. Aside from tweaking Rampart and adding Auto-Refresh and Reprisal, SE has done very little to change PLD. Not all jobs need to be buffed directly.

NIN fell behind not because PLD became better, but because /NIN was too overpowered in the first place and everyone can use it to virtually the same effectiveness, which probably should have never been the case but its way too late to change it now.

WHAT THE FUCK WAS SE THINKING?! Never mind BST, that zone is nothing more than a gigantic mine field for anyone stupid enough to tread upon it. God and I used to think the Grand Palace was bad for aggro, Jesus Christ...

I think you just have aggro problems. Valkurm is ust as much of a minefield as either of those zones. i'll only give you that aggro is inevitable for the tower climb in the palace or if you're taking the tour via 8-2, everything else its avoidable.

I haven't been to Beaucidine or Xarcabard much since they were added (mostly because I was working long hours and unable to play), but when I went out to get my zone warps for them I had no problem navigating and never aggroed.

Still, both sones are like smacking BST with a round of Sea.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

umm... Xarc is loaded with true sight mobs, HNM dragons that will plop down from the sky and wipe out alliances, etc etc.

It's a death trap and little else. Shit you can't even get to a campaign battle safely without having to avoid IT++, true sight mobs. They could have at the very least spaced them out a bit more so you can OP and not instantly have aggro. Sorry, but somebody fucked up Xarc's design, big time.

From a thematic/flavor PoV, I love it. But from a practical side, as a player, yeah Xarc commits just about every Cardinal Sin in the book.

[Akashimo]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

PLD has largely gotten nothing but indirect buffs, things that benefitted everyone in the game or came from the addition of newer jobs. Aside from tweaking Rampart and adding Auto-Refresh and Reprisal, SE has done very little to change PLD. Not all jobs need to be buffed directly.

Pretty much agreed on. Paladin as I see it doesn't need anything directly and most ideas discussed with my fellow ls plds would just be sweet tasty icing.

[Karinya]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Personally, I think it's great to have a zone that is actually dangerous to 75s. We're a little too used to owning the freaking world.

[Ziero]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

umm... Xarc is loaded with true sight mobs, HNM dragons that will plop down from the sky and wipe out alliances, etc etc.

It's a death trap and little else. Shit you can't even get to a campaign battle safely without having to avoid IT++, true sight mobs. They could have at the very least spaced them out a bit more so you can OP and not instantly have aggro. Sorry, but somebody fucked up Xarc's design, big time.

From a thematic/flavor PoV, I love it. But from a practical side, as a player, yeah Xarc commits just about every Cardinal Sin in the book.

What's that, you're surprised that the zone right in front of the main enemy army's base of operation is dangerous to travel in? Really? I would have thought walking around on the Shadowlord's front lawn would be a happy and magical adventure.

I been to Xarc, yes it's full of true sight mobs, but there's plenty of space to get around them. Yes it has that giant HNM dragon flying around, but he's not true sight and he's actually really hard to aggro (I know, I tried). Xarc S is exactly what it's supposed to be, a massive field of death an destruction that's unsafe to all who attempt to pass through it. It's the gates to hell and they don't want you there.

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Xac [s] is really not that scary (though at first it was). Even though it has high true sight mobs, I still find Ifrit’s Cauldron harder to navigate. I merit in X[s] on Pup all the time and never OP’d into aggro. But I can see it happening.

I just recent ‘explored’ the area; there are tons of open areas to recast spells/tools. I circled the whole map just looking for different things. He’s what I thought of it.
-The gigas are borderline blind when it comes to sight aggo
-Most of the ground mobs can be avoided by sneak/invs.
-Walruses are fugly
-The flying dragon creeps me out but I think he’s borderline blind also ><
-Red Demons look awesome

I walked around until I got to the castle gate got bored and decided to warp (club…not blood)

Personally, I think it's great to have a zone that is actually dangerous to 75s. We're a little too used to owning the freaking world.

I agree 100%. Although I do not look forward to the day where we need to escort an alliance to the gate ><. I do however look forward to some type of Castle V[s] SCNM ^^

[Ziero]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

My first time to Xarc, I literally tried to aggro that damn dragon. I wanted it to come out of the sky so I could get one clean, axe-shot to his face just because. But the little bastard just wouldn't come down. You have to be directly in front of him with no invis on for him to actually see you, and even then it's a very short aggro range and he'll pass by much faster then you can run so it's even that much harder to get his attention. For parties, I can see him being trouble, but he doesn't seem too dangerous to a single player. The Imps will get more people killed then that guy.

[Ketaru]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Xac [s] is really not that scary (though at first it was). Even though it has high true sight mobs, I still find Ifrit’s Cauldron harder to navigate. I merit in X[s] on Pup all the time and never OP’d into aggro. But I can see it happening.

It's easier to see happening once you factor in the player base into the mix. I don't think the Amphiptere goes to the teleport NPC all on his own. People bring him there, which is why I sometimes port right into the zone and get a front row seat to carnage and massacre. I'm lucky I haven't died yet, mostly because I have managed to port out right before it turns to me next.

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

It's easier to see happening once you factor in the player base into the mix. I don't think the Amphiptere goes to the teleport NPC all on his own. People bring him there, which is why I sometimes port right into the zone and get a front row seat to carnage and massacre. I'm lucky I haven't died yet, mostly because I have managed to port out right before it turns to me next.

I'm surprised you even see people there. every time i /sea there, it's either 6 blms in the 60s, 1 blm in the 70s or completely empty. Must say though, those tigers are a very nice choice for a solo pup. I’ve gotten as high as chain 15 off them